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Old 11-16-2004, 12:01 AM   #1
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Question Exhaust System

I have a 2003 3.8 mustang stock and i am looking forward too adding a exhaust system from headers to tips. Does anyone have something they can recomend me that adds performance and gives a good muscle car tone? Thanks
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Old 11-16-2004, 07:35 AM   #2
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if it's performance you're looking for, then you need to decide what you're willing to spend. an exhaust system from headers will be expensive. well over $1000

long tube headers run about 250. they get you the best performance on a Naturally Aspirated motor. shorty headers are cheaper, but lacking in exhaust flow

then you'll need an x or h pipe. off road type will be louder and a little more powerful and costs a mere $190, but a catted h pipe will let you pass emissions, the downside is it costs about $350. if you wanted an x pipe, you'd have to get one custom made or else modified. for the sake of emissions, i'd say get the catted h pipe. check ebay for deals

after than you need to pick a catback dual exhaust. the cheaper brands, like flowmaster, mac, magnaflows, sound pretty good on a v6 without a lot of other mods... all should be between $200 and $400 for the catback

but if you're gonna eventually mod the whole motor, then a higher priced brand of catback may be right for you. there are borla, bassani, steeda... all will run over $400, but when you rebuild your engine, you'll have a nice sounding exhaust

also, remember that you'll have to pay for labor to get all this installed. with headers and h pipe, you'll likely spend over $300 just on labor. if it's beyond your pocketbook, then get the headers later on, just start with the h pipe and catback

but there are the basics you need to know. if you're gonna go all out with your stang, then get all the options. if you just want dual exhaust, spare your pocketbook and get a "cheapie" exhaust. either way you go though, you won't gain more than 10-15 horsepower at the wheels. large hp gains come with engine modding (on v6's, at least)

i hope i broke things down well for you
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Old 11-16-2004, 07:40 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitev6stang03
I have a 2003 3.8 mustang stock and i am looking forward too adding a exhaust system from headers to tips. Does anyone have something they can recomend me that adds performance and gives a good muscle car tone? Thanks
What mods are you going to do after the exhaust and what is you desired end result. How much do you want to spend on exhaust?????
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Old 11-16-2004, 09:04 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Dude
What mods are you going to do after the exhaust and what is you desired end result. How much do you want to spend on exhaust?????
Well Danger Dude, I'm looking forward to incress my MPG and for my stang to sound pretty good. I would want a stang with like about 230 hp after mods, so it can have a little kick in it. I'm not looking forward to racing a cobra but maybe keep up with a GT. Anyone have ideas of where to start moding?
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Old 11-16-2004, 09:08 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dark
if it's performance you're looking for, then you need to decide what you're willing to spend. an exhaust system from headers will be expensive. well over $1000

long tube headers run about 250. they get you the best performance on a Naturally Aspirated motor. shorty headers are cheaper, but lacking in exhaust flow

then you'll need an x or h pipe. off road type will be louder and a little more powerful and costs a mere $190, but a catted h pipe will let you pass emissions, the downside is it costs about $350. if you wanted an x pipe, you'd have to get one custom made or else modified. for the sake of emissions, i'd say get the catted h pipe. check ebay for deals

after than you need to pick a catback dual exhaust. the cheaper brands, like flowmaster, mac, magnaflows, sound pretty good on a v6 without a lot of other mods... all should be between $200 and $400 for the catback

but if you're gonna eventually mod the whole motor, then a higher priced brand of catback may be right for you. there are borla, bassani, steeda... all will run over $400, but when you rebuild your engine, you'll have a nice sounding exhaust

also, remember that you'll have to pay for labor to get all this installed. with headers and h pipe, you'll likely spend over $300 just on labor. if it's beyond your pocketbook, then get the headers later on, just start with the h pipe and catback

but there are the basics you need to know. if you're gonna go all out with your stang, then get all the options. if you just want dual exhaust, spare your pocketbook and get a "cheapie" exhaust. either way you go though, you won't gain more than 10-15 horsepower at the wheels. large hp gains come with engine modding (on v6's, at least)

i hope i broke things down well for you

Thanks dark, you helped out alot.
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Old 11-16-2004, 09:24 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitev6stang03
Well Danger Dude, I'm looking forward to incress my MPG and for my stang to sound pretty good. I would want a stang with like about 230 hp after mods, so it can have a little kick in it. I'm not looking forward to racing a cobra but maybe keep up with a GT. Anyone have ideas of where to start moding?

Buy a GT... J/K Exhaust is one of the best places to start. Looks like your starting in the right direction already..
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Old 11-16-2004, 09:37 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitev6stang03
Well Danger Dude, I'm looking forward to incress my MPG and for my stang to sound pretty good. I would want a stang with like about 230 hp after mods, so it can have a little kick in it. I'm not looking forward to racing a cobra but maybe keep up with a GT. Anyone have ideas of where to start moding?
if you want good mpg, then the best thing to do is probably leave the car alone. hp saps mpg. dual exhaust won't hurt it much. but if you get in depth with your modding, then you'll start to burn more gas, which will decrease the miles you can go on a gallon of gas

basically, if you want to preserve your stang's mpg rating, then i'd stop doing performance mods at bolt ons (dual exhaust, cai, udp, differential, rims)
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Old 11-16-2004, 09:47 AM   #8
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I would personally forget the Long tube headers. They are not required and you can use the money for other mods. I would just go Cat back. I would get the usual Bolt-ons first. Underdrive pulley, CAI, 3.73 or 4.10 rearend gears and Tlock and a chip. You will not get to 230 RWHP unless you go into the engine and change your cam, P&P Heads, P&P intakes or you supercharge or get a nitrous kit. If you do go Supercharger then I would consider Long tube headers.


You can PM me and we can discuss further mods and what is best for your budget.
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Old 11-16-2004, 10:07 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Dude
I would personally forget the Long tube headers. They are not required and you can use the money for other mods. I would just go Cat back. I would get the usual Bolt-ons first. Underdrive pulley, CAI, 3.73 or 4.10 rearend gears and Tlock and a chip. You will not get to 230 RWHP unless you go into the engine and change your cam, P&P Heads, P&P intakes or you supercharge or get a nitrous kit. If you do go Supercharger then I would consider Long tube headers.


You can PM me and we can discuss further mods and what is best for your budget.
How much hp do u think i'd get out of these bolt ons CAI, Dual Exhaust, Tlock, underdrive pulley, and chip? About 210?
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Old 11-16-2004, 10:17 AM   #10
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somewhere near 210 BHP would be a good guess. If you have a Automatic you are around 150-160 RWHP and around 170 RWHP if you have a standard. A chip can get you 10+ HP and 10+ RW torque if you dont mind running Premium gas thru your car. All the bolt-ons might get you 15-20hp tops. Gears and Tlok will not get you HP but it will make you launch faster and make your car quicker. It is the biggest bang for your buck for the perfromance increase you will get and feel.
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Old 11-16-2004, 10:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Dude
somewhere near 210 BHP would be a good guess. If you have a Automatic you are around 150-160 RWHP and around 170 RWHP if you have a standard. A chip can get you 10+ HP and 10+ RW torque if you dont mind running Premium gas thru your car. All the bolt-ons might get you 15-20hp tops. Gears and Tlok will not get you HP but it will make you launch faster and make your car quicker. It is the biggest bang for your buck for the perfromance increase you will get and feel.
niiiice good enough for what i want for now. Do you know how to see how much hp and rwhp i got on my car? Like a Dyno i think its called. How much does it cost to do this or where can i take it? I'm pretty much lost as you can see lol.........
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Old 11-16-2004, 06:23 PM   #12
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i have mac long tube headders mac h pipe and a mandrel bent exhaust. The muffs are mac too. The tone is great at idle but a little "ricey" at wot. I have a super charger so this mod was the icing on the cake. Low end tourqe is great. you can push all the air you want in an engine but it has to flow it out too to get gains.do long tube if you can. its worth the $$$ in my eyes.
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Old 11-16-2004, 06:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokin6
i have mac long tube headders mac h pipe and a mandrel bent exhaust. The muffs are mac too. The tone is great at idle but a little "ricey" at wot. I have a super charger so this mod was the icing on the cake. Low end tourqe is great. you can push all the air you want in an engine but it has to flow it out too to get gains.do long tube if you can. its worth the $$$ in my eyes.
Nice... I was thinking of puting on mac long tubes, mac cated h pipe, and mac exhaust system. This will be around 1000 bucks not sure if it worth it but im debating on it. I wont start to work till this summer (12 bucks an hour ) coming. I've been busy with college lately and im just geting ideas for this summer. So how do u think my car would sound stock with this exhaust system idea?
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Old 11-16-2004, 06:48 PM   #14
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Another question is how thick should i get my exhaust pipes for a stang that im planing on adding CAI, pulley, tlock, and maybe a chip. Im not to sure about the chip tho.
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Old 11-16-2004, 07:12 PM   #15
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2.5" would be big enough
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Old 11-16-2004, 07:30 PM   #16
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get 2 mufflers, go to an exhaust shop, and have them make you a custom true-dual setup, w/ straight pipes, no cats unless you have to go through emissions testing, or you get pulled over by dot, you'll be fine
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Old 11-16-2004, 07:41 PM   #17
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I'll for sure will get my setup I siad on the 13ths post. I think MAC exhaust pipes come with a thickness of 2.5 inches so i think it'll sound great after all the ideas and comments said here. Thanks to everyone
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Old 11-17-2004, 07:45 AM   #18
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2.25 or 2.5 inches will be ok. don't go bigger or smaller than that though
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Old 11-17-2004, 09:12 AM   #19
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Unless you are going to Supercharge I would just stick with 2.25. The problem is with loss of backpressure that will in turn cause a loss in some torque. It is not much loss but any loss in a V6 is not good since we are trying to get more performance not less.
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Old 11-17-2004, 12:27 PM   #20
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Backpressure doesn't build torque.

More backpressure = less power. Stick a spud up your tailpipe and you'll build lot's of back preessure, then try to drive it.

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Old 11-17-2004, 12:32 PM   #21
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Yes..but there is a fine line between too much back pressure and not enough back pressure. Too big exhaust, and your car is breathing too much, too little exhaust leaves you with too much back pressure. He is just saying 2 1/4 is just about the right size.
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Old 11-17-2004, 12:44 PM   #22
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I'll say it again.

Backpressure does not build torque.

too much is a bad thing, too little is not a bad thing.

Why the size is key has nothing to do with backpressure at all. It has to do with sizing the pipes to maintain exhaust velocity out of the system. Properly done the system use the gas flowing out to help pull the next pulse of exhaust out with it. too big and you lose that effect and the exhaust system is actually less efficient than a smaller sized exhaust using the effect.

Almost all exhaust system makers suggest that anything below 1.5 psi of back pressure is a good system, more than that is a not as good.

Check it out.

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Old 11-17-2004, 12:57 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponycarman
Backpressure doesn't build torque.

More backpressure = less power. Stick a spud up your tailpipe and you'll build lot's of back preessure, then try to drive it.

Steve
Ther is a big difference between some back pressure and stopping up a exhaust.

It is the principle of Convergent / Divergent ducts. A wide open exhaust allows for low pressure and low velocity. A slightly restricted exhaust increases pressure and increase velocity.

The is a balance you get to restrictive and you kill power and prevent the engine from breathing.

Like I said the before the Dyno's dont lie. The amount of torque gain or loss is minute' but it is there.
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Old 11-17-2004, 04:19 PM   #24
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You have a poor understanding of how an exhaust system works if you really think back pressure builds torque.

It doesn't and I'll keep saying that.

You are correct in pointing out the low pressure/low velocity issue. However backpressure does not build power, period.

Backpressure is simply a result of exhaust system design, it is a symptom not a cause.

In other words, for a street system optimized for torque over horsepower you will get some backpressure symply as a function of the design. Backpressure, in and of itself is not a good thing.

I can take a race only system, with 1 7/8" header primaries, 3.5" collectors and dual 3" exhaust pipes on a stock/mild engine. Then I will put a restrictor in the collectors to raise backpressure up to comparable to a stock system and you will lose torque compared to the stock exhaust system.


If you are a member of SAE there are a number of very good papers detailing this.

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Old 11-17-2004, 05:36 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponycarman
You have a poor understanding of how an exhaust system works if you really think back pressure builds torque.

It doesn't and I'll keep saying that.

You are correct in pointing out the low pressure/low velocity issue. However backpressure does not build power, period.

Backpressure is simply a result of exhaust system design, it is a symptom not a cause.

In other words, for a street system optimized for torque over horsepower you will get some backpressure symply as a function of the design. Backpressure, in and of itself is not a good thing.

I can take a race only system, with 1 7/8" header primaries, 3.5" collectors and dual 3" exhaust pipes on a stock/mild engine. Then I will put a restrictor in the collectors to raise backpressure up to comparable to a stock system and you will lose torque compared to the stock exhaust system.


If you are a member of SAE there are a number of very good papers detailing this.

Steve
I never said that backpressure makes power. As a person experienced at the dyno I have seen the numbers which relate to torque and exhaust systems. Backpressure does not build torque the simple fact is open exhaust take some away and as I said this is not a big number but it does happen over and over again. The facts are there

I dont have a poor undestanding of exhaust as a fact I have a rather extensive knowledge of exhaust in my 20 + years of car modding and as a certified Volvo marine and Automobile Mechanic with 2 year in the offshore racing development I am a Aerospace engineer and a 25 year member of SAE, ASE and ASQ I am a certified GE, Pratt Whitney and Allison jet engine mechanic.
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Old 11-17-2004, 07:42 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Dude
I never said that backpressure makes power. As a person experienced at the dyno I have seen the numbers which relate to torque and exhaust systems. Backpressure does not build torque the simple fact is open exhaust take some away and as I said this is not a big number but it does happen over and over again. The facts are there

I dont have a poor undestanding of exhaust as a fact I have a rather extensive knowledge of exhaust in my 20 + years of car modding and as a certified Volvo marine and Automobile Mechanic with 2 year in the offshore racing development I am a Aerospace engineer and a 25 year member of SAE, ASE and ASQ I am a certified GE, Pratt Whitney and Allison jet engine mechanic.
:approve:

Well said Corey. I have a great deal of respect and appreaciation for your posts. This chap evidently hasn't been around here long enough to know of your vast knowledge!!!!

I just recently joined this site but for long time before buying my mustang, checked out this forum and read your posts!!!
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Old 11-17-2004, 08:56 PM   #27
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corey and ponycarman are both incredibly knowledgable about cars.

corey has been around longer than ponycarman, but they are both very intelligent when it comes to cars.


they're just having a disagreement right now....
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Old 11-17-2004, 09:02 PM   #28
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I have another question, since i hear more people say to get 2 1/4 pipe for a stock v6, where can i get a exhaust system with 2 1/4 pipes? Do GT take offs have 2 1/4 pipes. Would really like to hear some of yalls exhaust systems to make a choice. If its not a problem, hearing the exhausts would really help me out.
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Old 11-17-2004, 09:31 PM   #29
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.... I love watching people that actually know stuff fight. Been reading too much on 3.8.... ... sorry for this interruption... please continue your fight... disagreement, w/e
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Old 11-17-2004, 09:34 PM   #30
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Takeoffs do have 2 1/4 inch pipes...

The only problem down is actually finding takeoffs. With the new 05's out, aftermarket manufacturers like Saleen and Steeda are no longer making new cars out of the 99-04 model GTs. Because of this, all of the 3rd-party sites that these companies sell their takeoffs to are in short supply or are completely sold out.

I just found this out myself today. I can't explain to you how disappointed I am right now. I guess the only other option I'm considering is getting a custom h-pipe and buying a MagnaFlow Catback for a GT since the Catback for a v6 is not a true dual setup.
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Old 11-17-2004, 09:35 PM   #31
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whitev6stang03.... I have a clip of my exhaust on this forum... if you want me to find it.. I will. I have 2.5'' exhaust tubing back to some 3.5" tips.... and an h-pipe. I had the muffler shop put it all on.... custom bent. Ok, I have dual magnapacks on there, and the car ROARS... doesn't ever get ricey, and it really seems to grow into the mufflers the more they're on the car. It rumbles... at stop lights, it litterally rumbles... not a small stock-like rumble... a rumble like you've got 2 more cylinders under the hood, and you're ready to go. It's a flow through exhaust... so that's better for performance. I noticed an INCREASE in gas mileage with my CAI and exhaust. I'm up to 30.5 miles per gallon at the highest mpg I've gotten... not too bad for about a 200 hp v-6. I've been screwing around all week, flooring it almost everywhere, have 117 miles on the trip (which I reset every fill) and still 3/4 of a tank
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Old 11-17-2004, 09:45 PM   #32
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Jimmy, I would like to hear your exhaust. Find me your clip. thx...
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Old 11-17-2004, 10:26 PM   #33
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For Real This Time, Exhaust Clips

THAR SHE BLOWS.... enjoy.... please leave comments
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Old 11-17-2004, 11:09 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteStang99
corey and ponycarman are both incredibly knowledgable about cars.

corey has been around longer than ponycarman, but they are both very intelligent when it comes to cars.


they're just having a disagreement right now....
Exactly people with knowledge do disagree. I have respect for Ponycarman and even if we disagree It will not come to flames
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Old 11-17-2004, 11:14 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Dude
and even if we disagree It will not come to flames
ahh why not,

i have always heard that if you lower backpressure, you will lose torque
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