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Old 11-27-2004, 11:43 PM   #1
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Think'n about turbo chargin

http://www.members.aol.com/andylittleton/tma.htm

this guy lives here in Cali, does his own turbo charging on V6 Mustangs.

I haven't contacted him about it yet, I've just had it in the back of my head that I could turbo charge the stang instead of super charging.

Opinions on anything? If you look at the first ones he did they look really amateur but the latest ones almost look professional.
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Old 11-28-2004, 12:04 AM   #2
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that is TuxMaskAndy on 3.8 and v6power. He does good work. It will set you back about 4k after turbo kit and fuel upgrades and MAF and chip.

a turbo is always more effecient than a supercharger and Andy knows the right size turbo for the V6. That way you wont have turbo lag.
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Old 11-28-2004, 12:39 AM   #3
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whats the difference between turbo and super charging? i dont know much about either.
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Old 11-28-2004, 12:48 AM   #4
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turbo charging uses your exhaust gas to make power, while the super charger is powered by your engine
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Old 11-28-2004, 01:45 AM   #5
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Ack, I didn't know how far away he really is, I thought it was closer. I'll get prices from him and from Xcasty Sports here, they have the world's fastest Cobra mustang They work ONLY on mustangs, so I'll see what they could do.
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Old 11-28-2004, 05:55 AM   #6
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turbocharging > supercharging
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Old 11-28-2004, 09:29 AM   #7
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Turbocharging is a form of supercharging. In fact it is more properly called turbo-supercharging, but that's a mouthfull and it got shortened.

Anyway, both forms have thier plusses and thier minuses. It all depends on what you want to do and how much room you have to do it in.

Turbo's have plusses and minuses, but the pro turbo guys never seem to mention the minuses. Lot's of underhood and induction system heat, the turbo is a big restriction in the exhaust and a turbocharged engine is usually weak at low RPM. All of this can be dealt with but it's not something you can just slap onto an existing engine and go, well you can but you'll have issues sooner or later.

Blowers get a bad rap because they take some HP off the engine to drive it. So? You think all that exhaust heat a turbo puts into the airstream and the cork it is in the exhaust doesn't take some HP too?

Ain't no such thing as free HP, it'll all cost you some how.

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Old 11-28-2004, 03:48 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Ponycarman
Turbo's have plusses and minuses, but the pro turbo guys never seem to mention the minuses. Lot's of underhood and induction system heat, the turbo is a big restriction in the exhaust and a turbocharged engine is usually weak at low RPM. All of this can be dealt with but it's not something you can just slap onto an existing engine and go, well you can but you'll have issues sooner or later.
first, i dont know how you say the turbo corks the exhaust. the turbine wheel on the hot side of the compressor spins as fast as the exhaust is flowing and then gets shot out thru the downpipe. It is actually less of a cork than a catalytic converter.

next, weak at low rpms -- this is due to an improperly mated turbocharger. You are correct that it needs high flow exhaust to spool, but the size of the turbine housing and compressor wheel is what matters where boost comes in. You can have full boost kick in at 1200rpms if you wanted to. The turbo would run out of steam by 3500rpms though, but it would be strong in the low rpms. Conversly, you can get a huge turbo that won't spool until 5k rpms, but will flow enough air and wont run out of steam til over 10k rpms.

As for the "slap on an existing engine and go," Andy's kits (the link above) is a direct bolt on for the V6 engine. You can run 7psi of boost with upgraded injectors and MAF and a dyno tune.
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Blowers get a bad rap because they take some HP off the engine to drive it. So? You think all that exhaust heat a turbo puts into the airstream and the cork it is in the exhaust doesn't take some HP too?

Ain't no such thing as free HP, it'll all cost you some how.

Steve
btw, turbos and supers are both "blowers" but supers are more commonly refered to as blowers but is universal for a forced induction system. A benefit of a super is that it is belt driven so it spools (centrifugal) directly with the rpms of the car. Centrifugal superchargers ALWAYS require spool-up. generally it is shorter than a turbo, but it is still there. And yes, it does rob you horsepower.

Like you said, there are pros and cons to each. A turbo charger will always be more expensive, yet produces more hp. Very rarely do you see a car with over 800hp that doesnt involve a turbo of some sorts.
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Old 11-28-2004, 04:10 PM   #9
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Old 11-28-2004, 11:00 PM   #10
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Very rarely do you see a car with over 800hp that doesnt involve a turbo of some sorts.

How many cars do you want me to link you to that make considerably more than 800hp measly HP without a turbo, using a blower only?

Every funny car and top fueler out there runs a blower, not a turbo to be seen. Each one of them makes 800hp look like grannies ride. Before you say that's not a "fair" comparison show me an 800 hp street legal turbo car. Note the street legal requirement since, after all, the original question is for a street car. And NO just having plates does not make it street legal.

A turbo that'll spool up at 1200 rpm is should probably be hooked to a diesel and is of no use on a gasoline powered car.

You say a turbo isn't a cork? What makes a turbo spin? The pressure difference between the inlet side of the turbine and the outlet side. Turbos HAVE to be sized to fit an application and some of the most critical parameters is the displacement AND the expected RPM. Too small a turbo and it'll both run out of boost AND limit exhaust flow. Too big a turbo and it'll take forever to spool up, making for an essentially useless power adder for a street car.

It is way easier to add a supercharger of some sort than a turbo, especially for a first timer. Turbo's have thier place, but they are not a panacea.

One final note boost is boost. The motor doesn't know or care if a turbo or a supercharger is feeding it.

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Old 11-28-2004, 11:32 PM   #11
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One final note boost is boost. The motor doesn't know or care if a turbo or a supercharger is feeding it.
Actually, turbos make more power when compared to a supercharger set at the same boost.

And for future reference, you can hook up a turbo to act like supercharger. Don't ask me how I know.
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Old 11-28-2004, 11:47 PM   #12
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can this slap onto my stock V6
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Old 11-29-2004, 06:23 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom
Actually, turbos make more power when compared to a supercharger set at the same boost.

And for future reference, you can hook up a turbo to act like supercharger. Don't ask me how I know.

Actually that depends on the racing. A huge Roots blower on top of most of the fastest Drag cars in the world is definitely not a slouch but at 1.5 MPG they are not in any way a streetable car plus these cars really perform very poorly at slow speeds.

Big *** Turbos are much more street friendly in terms of fuel economy and streetability.

So for extreme horsepower on the street a turbo is a bit more practical but on the track a Big block with a Big *** roots blower with nitrous will steal the show.
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Old 11-29-2004, 01:59 PM   #14
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Actually, turbos make more power when compared to a supercharger set at the same boost.

And for future reference, you can hook up a turbo to act like supercharger. Don't ask me how I know.

A turbo is a supercharger... One uses a belt. One uses exhaust gases. How do you make a turbo act "like a supercharger".
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Old 11-29-2004, 02:36 PM   #15
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The biggest con to turbocharging used to be that there was so much lag in the power, this however, has been remedied..it's more a matter of experience and what you plan on trying to do with the power. I'm trying to make up my mind between two engines...in one I would be turbocharging..in the other super. Just whatever you wanna do
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Old 11-29-2004, 08:04 PM   #16
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I used to think super > turbo

now I think vice versa. To quote Andy's site....

Quote:
This turbo spools at 2k rpms and full boost by 2.5k!!! Surpassing Root blower status! Results better then expected.
Tell me, whats the point, ON A STREET CAR, in losing 40 horses off the belt with a supercharger trying to have almost instant boost...when you can have a turbo set up correctly(seems like he's got it down to an exact science) and not lose those extra 40hp, get spool times as fast as a SC's, and only lose 25-30hp TOPS(imho) from exhaust flow?

Plus number 2....pop the hood on a mustang and you see a supercharger...you think sweet. Pop the hood on the mustang with a turbo and your like...Whoa wtf...turbo mustang....I want. :bigeyes:


Another plus...turbos = BOV. Nothing is better than the sound of a blow off valve. Dude came into my work today with a TC'ed Neon SRT-4. Feathered the gas up to the exit and I just hear WHOOOOOSH. I creamed my pants I f'ing swear.

Both have a whine, thats cool, but a whine up to a WHOOSH is better than WHiiiiiIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE.....:drive: WHiiiiiIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE......:drive: WhiiiiiiIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE.......


Just my 2 cents...
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Old 12-01-2004, 06:57 PM   #17
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lol I know what you mean, I think after awhile the whine of even an 03 Cobra engine would get to me.. but knowing how much power it's creating I would be fine with the sound.
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Old 12-01-2004, 09:53 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiljosh
I used to think super > turbo

now I think vice versa. To quote Andy's site....



Tell me, whats the point, ON A STREET CAR, in losing 40 horses off the belt with a supercharger trying to have almost instant boost...when you can have a turbo set up correctly(seems like he's got it down to an exact science) and not lose those extra 40hp, get spool times as fast as a SC's, and only lose 25-30hp TOPS(imho) from exhaust flow?

Plus number 2....pop the hood on a mustang and you see a supercharger...you think sweet. Pop the hood on the mustang with a turbo and your like...Whoa wtf...turbo mustang....I want. :bigeyes:


Another plus...turbos = BOV. Nothing is better than the sound of a blow off valve. Dude came into my work today with a TC'ed Neon SRT-4. Feathered the gas up to the exit and I just hear WHOOOOOSH. I creamed my pants I f'ing swear.

Both have a whine, thats cool, but a whine up to a WHOOSH is better than WHiiiiiIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE.....:drive: WHiiiiiIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE......:drive: WhiiiiiiIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE.......


Just my 2 cents...
you can also put a bovon some superchargers, the 11 psi procharger for instance
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Old 12-02-2004, 09:00 AM   #19
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I would never, I repeat never get sick of the supercharger whine, I might however get freaking sick of the "whooooosh" everytime I shift
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Old 12-02-2004, 10:42 AM   #20
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Don't get me wrong, if I had a SC on my car I'd love the whine...I'm just more of a turbo guy...

232, only on a centrifugal though right? I always thought that roots blowrs weren't compatible with a BOV cause they ahve a wastegate. I'm comparing roots to a turbo, a centrifugal is cool I'm just a fan of instant boost, our cars have a low redline if you ask me so want booost as fast as possible.
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Old 12-02-2004, 01:33 PM   #21
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Don't get me wrong, if I had a SC on my car I'd love the whine...I'm just more of a turbo guy...

232, only on a centrifugal though right? I always thought that roots blowrs weren't compatible with a BOV cause they ahve a wastegate. I'm comparing roots to a turbo, a centrifugal is cool I'm just a fan of instant boost, our cars have a low redline if you ask me so want booost as fast as possible.
the blower i metioned is centrifugal.
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