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Old 01-09-2005, 08:03 PM   #1
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60mm throttlebody on

Finally got the 60mm TB back from RPM and on. We started it up to find the there was a huge vacuum leak coming from the top of where the TB meets the intake. The 5.0 TB was too large and came up too high so it didnt make a seal at the top. SO... we made a ghetto gasket that came up high enough to seal it off. Only prob now is when I first turn it on the rpm goes up to about 2000 and then finally idles down to about 1000, then when I go through the gears every time I push the clutch in the rpm once again goes up to about 2000. Why is this? (I had to splice the new TPS sensor in, and im sure I got all(3) wires right.)

Power wise I know I got at leaste a good 15+ to the wheels, same for torque. Not just in the higher rpms either, but all through. So now Im prolly at about 180rwhp and 220rwtq. (I got 162rwhp and 205rwtq last week)
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Old 01-10-2005, 10:04 AM   #2
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your IAC might have to be adjusted becuase of the bigger TB, causing your idle to be high..
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Old 01-10-2005, 10:48 AM   #3
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Yeah I had talked to Tom at Supersix about a 60mm and he told me it's really too much trouble and epoxy has to be used when they P&P the intake. You just have to take too much off to make it a 60mm inlet. Good luck with it ever sealing up right.

I also would check the IAC. I once had a faulty one that would make the idle lower than normal. However with it racing up like that, it could be a separate vacuum leak also. Since it is related to the clutch, that is weird, tps could be it. Fun stuff, keep digging.
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Old 01-10-2005, 11:00 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wendyc
Yeah I had talked to Tom at Supersix about a 60mm and he told me it's really too much trouble and epoxy has to be used when they P&P the intake. You just have to take too much off to make it a 60mm inlet. Good luck with it ever sealing up right.

I also would check the IAC. I once had a faulty one that would make the idle lower than normal. However with it racing up like that, it could be a separate vacuum leak also.
Sorry but some of that is just nonsense. I used a 60 mm T/B on my stage 3 intakes from RGR. you have to elongate the holes in the T/B base to be able to fit it on or you can by a phenolic adapter / Spacer to mount the 60mm T/B to the intake. Now if the mating surface of the T/B or the Intake is warped it will not seal properly. You might try 2 gaskets but be careful when tightening or you can warp it for sure.

You might have a problem in the splice. Another thing is you can clean the IAC with a degreaser to clean out carbon and soot that builds up on the sensor. The other thing is you could have a faulty Throttle Position sensor which is causing your rpms to go up and down. The peoblems you are having while shifting and the RPMs hanging would not be the IAC because it does not have a function other than at Idle it has no effect on the car above Idle
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Old 01-10-2005, 11:06 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Dude
Sorry but some of that is bull. I used a 60 mm T/B on my stage 3 intakes from RGR. you have to elongate the holes in the T/B base to be able to fit it on or you can by a phenolic adapter / Spacer to mount the 60mm T/B to the intake.

You might have a problem in the splice. Another thing is you can clean the IAC with a degreaser to clean out carbon and soot that builds up on the sensor. The other thing is you could have a faulty Throttle Position sensor which is causing your rpms to go up and down. The peoblems you are having while shifting and the RPMs hanging would not be the IAC because it does not have a function other than at Idle it has no effect on the car above Idle
BS right back at you then, I doubt you can clean your IAC and it work as well as a new one. I tried to do that and it didn't make a difference. Don't be cheap. First take it off and look at it, mine looked slightly melted on the inside. My problems were only at idle though. IACs seem to be a common problem.

Thank you for calling BS on me. All I can tell you is what I hear and my personal experience and I make sure to separate and clearly identify the two. I did not try the 60mm TB myself. I just trust that it is doable but not worth the trouble. I have heard more cases of it being a pita than not. This thread is another example of that. BBK needs to make a 58mm in my opinion.
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Old 01-10-2005, 11:19 AM   #6
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First off If a IAC is just dirty why not try cleaning it off. That is what all professional mechanics do and I am a professional mechanic, besides if it works it can save you 60-100 dollars on a new IAC.

The 60mm conversion is not a PITA. The fact is people usually try to use all the old stuff off the 60mm T/B that might have been sitting in a junk yard for years and thinking it will work. No you might need a new IAC but if you use the one that was originally on your car and it was working it should be all right. Like I said The problem is not likely the IAC anyway because the RPM's are hanging while he is driving and the IAC is only controlling the engine while at Idle. Hanging RPM's while driving is a problem in the TPS!!!!

And Wendyc I rephrased my statement but I was not attacking you I was calling Bull the information that was told to you.
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Old 01-10-2005, 01:05 PM   #7
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I don't how you are having problems with a 60mm TB. it's not a PITA at all. If someone with experience makes it and someone with experience puts it on, then you should have no problem. When I put on mine. It took a while, but that's only because I had to shave about 1/4" from it so it didn't hit the fuel rail. But once I got it shaved, it went on and works like a charm. Also, I don't listen to what Tom has to say at supersix. He does good work and all, but he's way over priced on everything he sells, and I'm not so sure he's in it for the fun or science, but more for the money. Personally I think the 60mm is a very reasonable mod for anybody looking to modify there V6.
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Old 01-10-2005, 01:54 PM   #8
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Cool that's why everyone gets an opinion. Who is on top of the timeslips & dyno pages.... Tom or everyone else? I trust him and his opinion based on the performance of others with his stuff. I have the money to do it right and when I buy from him I get my stuff fast and it's perfect. I have enough headaches and enough stuff going on. For the money I went with the 56mm TB because I knew it would go on perfectly with NO modification. Sorry.

I have a friend who installed a tb for a v6 from 'another well known source' for someone once... the throttle arm was carved out of wood.

Lighten up, I get to have my opinion too! Like it or not!
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Old 01-10-2005, 02:06 PM   #9
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You can do anything you want to your car. The BBK 56mm T/B is a good choice also. It is just a matter of how knowledgeable you are at modding that makes a difference. You can pick up a 60mm T/B for as little as $30.00 and P&P yourself and mod it to fit a 94-98 for less than $20.00 and it will outflow the 56mm especially with a supercharger.

As far as Tom Y. He is ok, He has a good product and I am not even concerned with his prices. I have been in debates with him and other people like RGR and Mikael (RPM) and he has not always been right with some of his arguments. But I have lots of respect for him and his engine building ability and as a peer. But I also respect others in the V6 comunity also for there knowledge and credibility.

I cant even begin to fathom someone using wood on anything on a stang much less a T/B??????? Some things are just wrong!!!!!

OH I am always taking it easy. Being 44 has its advantages I let very little raise my blood pressure. That is also why I took up Medievel Sword fighting recently it helps reduce stress especially when you take a claymore and with one swing cut right thru a 4X4 piece of wood
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Old 01-10-2005, 02:48 PM   #10
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cork gaskets are wood based? lol
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Old 01-10-2005, 02:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpectorV
cork gaskets are wood based? lol
And that is why I dont have any cork gaskets on my car BY GOD!!!!
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Old 01-10-2005, 03:16 PM   #12
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yea they blow lol jb weld is a much better alternative




j/k i much perfer the rubber gaskets
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Old 01-11-2005, 12:25 PM   #13
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for one, paper is wood based. Go tell me what kind of upper intake gasket you have, or thermostat gasket, front cover, waterpump...all paper gakets.

second, cleaning the IAC does not always fix it. Most people end up buying a new one because carb cleaner can't help any. I personally think it is due to the PCV system...if you have the stock one I suggest you alter it to let less oil into the intake and keep stuff from clogging up.
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Old 01-11-2005, 01:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangin99
for one, paper is wood based. Go tell me what kind of upper intake gasket you have, or thermostat gasket, front cover, waterpump...all paper gakets.

second, cleaning the IAC does not always fix it. Most people end up buying a new one because carb cleaner can't help any. I personally think it is due to the PCV system...if you have the stock one I suggest you alter it to let less oil into the intake and keep stuff from clogging up.
First off the wood thing was a joke I GUESS YOU DID NOT GET THAT !!!

Second I never said cleaning always fixed the IAC. What I said was
Quote:
First off If a IAC is just dirty why not try cleaning it off. That is what all professional mechanics do and I am a professional mechanic, besides if it works it can save you 60-100 dollars on a new IAC.
So my opinion is clean it before you buy it. unless you like wasting money!!!

Third I have no PVC system and I still get some residue from my K&N filter. But you are correct the PVC is responsible for a large portion of the film on the MAF.

NEXT
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Old 01-11-2005, 01:41 PM   #15
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Wow relax Corey, sucks when someone agrees with me and not you doesn't it? And yes, we all know you have a million years experience with everything and are the ultimate authority overriding any other opinion and blah blah blah. Just be nice for God's sake!
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Old 01-11-2005, 01:57 PM   #16
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I am relaxed. I actully did not disagree with you onn the IAC. I just made a recommendation to try to clean it first. Who said I was upset with someone agreeing with you. This is a information forum and information is free and accessible. There are always alternative ideas and ways to go about something and I have never repressed that in any way. Please dont misrepresent what I was saying and dont go stirring up crap either. Your quote "And yes, we all know you have a million years experience with everything and are the ultimate authority overriding any other opinion and blah blah blah." is uncalled for and just adds to flames.
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Old 01-11-2005, 02:11 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangin99
for one, paper is wood based. Go tell me what kind of upper intake gasket you have, or thermostat gasket, front cover, waterpump...all paper gakets.

second, cleaning the IAC does not always fix it. Most people end up buying a new one because carb cleaner can't help any. I personally think it is due to the PCV system...if you have the stock one I suggest you alter it to let less oil into the intake and keep stuff from clogging up.
Wow, you have some really crappy gaskets. My intake, front seal, and most of those gaskets are metal covered in silicone or are silicone based. The only full paper gasket I know of off hand is my thermostat gasket
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Old 01-12-2005, 08:05 AM   #18
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I cant really explane how the 5.0 throttlebody fits on the intake, it makes a fine seal everywhere except the very top where the throttlebody comes up above the intake and leaves an opening about 1/8th of an inch wide. Thats taken care of now anyways, the piece of cardboard we stuck in there seems to be working fine.
The problem with the revving has demenished a little bit, it doesnt go up past 1500rpm usually, but it does still do the same. One fact I foregot to mention in the first post is that when I barely tap the gas it does this. Though it doesnt seem to hang there as long any more and tends to idle down more quickly now. Im thinking it is the TPS for sure. I havnt got any codes trhough this whole project and now im starting to wonder if my "check engine" light is even working lol.
Im thinking about going back to the dyno thursday. I might try to get a tune but last time I was there they said I needed a "hand held tuner" ($399) from superchips or something like that. I thought I could get a dynotune with what I had (simple mail order SCT chip) Should I try a different dyno?
Oh and I wanted to mention my last dyno sheet, of course the numbers werent at all what I was expecting, but the mechanics there said my clutch is slipping bad and thats why I was loosing so much torque. My lowend torque was terrible compared to the base dyno, I lost 20+rwhp on average from about 60mph to like 80mph. Then the torque goes up above what it was in the base dyno in the upper speeds (thats where it goes over 200rwhp around 85-95mph) I figure the clutch will help alot on the lowend torque.
The 65mm TB really helped as well, I figure I got a good 20rwhp and torque at leaste. Im getting kinda good at estimating on this kinda stuff too. I know its much more powerful now though.
Anyways, just though I would let yall know... Ill try to post some pics of the dyno sheet when I get my Kodak softerware found...
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New dyno
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Old 01-12-2005, 08:14 AM   #19
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The 5.0 TPS that came with my 60mm T/B was shot. I got in touch with terry at midwest mustang and he shipped me one really fast along with a substantial part of the harness with the quick disconnects. I am sure you are having TPS problems. The RPM thing is a classic symptom
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Old 01-12-2005, 10:15 AM   #20
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well, i had the same problem with my car.it ended up being the iac was gunked and was slow in moving back and forth.the iac will open all the way and then close (correct me if im wrong corey) for like 2 sec when you shut the car off. it wasnt closing fast enough wich caused more air to get through and kept the rpms high for about a minute and would do it while i was driving. really bad if ac was going. got to be honest i pulled it off shot it with some degreaser sprayed in the throttle body real good and havent had a problem since. saved 62 dollars with shop discount.
i would try to clean it. only take 20 min
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Old 01-12-2005, 10:37 AM   #21
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Was there a leak at the IAC and the T/B gasket because the IAC has no function when the car is driving only at Idle ?????
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Old 01-13-2005, 08:27 AM   #22
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Heres my before and after dynos. The before is blue shaded (boltons) and the after is not. THe 2cd dyno is with everything in sig and stock 48mm throttlebody.

Im thinking I might need to go to a different dyno next time because the guys at this one dont really act like thy wanna mess with my car as far as tuning and such goes. How much do most dyno shops charge for a tune? Do I have to have a "hand held tuner" to get a dynotune? I didnt even think I had to have a chip?!?!

heres the charts:
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Mods: BV heads, cut and weld upper, fully ported lower, 216/225 cam, 1.73 RR's, 60mm TB, 19# injectors, new timing set, 25% UDP, CAI, SCT chip, PCV delete, EGR delete, MAC LT headers, O/R H-pipe, durablack cat-back...

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New dyno
193.8rwhp/238.9 rwtq
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Old 01-13-2005, 06:56 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98GreenStallion
Heres my before and after dynos. The before is blue shaded (boltons) and the after is not. THe 2cd dyno is with everything in sig and stock 48mm throttlebody.

Im thinking I might need to go to a different dyno next time because the guys at this one dont really act like thy wanna mess with my car as far as tuning and such goes. How much do most dyno shops charge for a tune? Do I have to have a "hand held tuner" to get a dynotune? I didnt even think I had to have a chip?!?!

heres the charts:
wow, those numbers are terrible. You should definately be seeing at least 20 more hp and 10 or so more tq. Is that thing dyno tuned even a little? Do you have a sheet or something with the Air:Fuel ratios? When I had almost the same exact setup, I was seeing about 178rwhp on a mustang dyno and I was running WAY rich. If you need help finding a tuner, let me know I'll do what I can.
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Old 01-13-2005, 06:57 PM   #24
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Oh ya, can you please do me a favor and put something in your profile about where you live, this always helps us "helpers"
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