Originally Posted by From some Guys/Gals with experience with both
Internal step up on most prochargers is almost 5 to 1...
***Was 4.44:1 but they might have upgraded. This makes it easier to
use big pullies, for better belt contact.
Vortech uses less internal gearing, which is fine, but you need
bigger drive (crank) pullies to get the impeller speed. On the surface
it appears to be an advantage for ATI but if the Vortech has better
impeller design, then it is a moot point.***
MOST vortechs are about half that. Try and spin each blower's pulley by hand. The vortech will make a few revolutions. The ati will be lucky to make it 3/4 of a turn after you let go. Now imagine a belt trying to turn that same pulley loaded down with boost...
***But the ATI will make more boost with less external pulley speed.
Also, see above comments***
I've owned:
Vortech A, B, R, S, and T-trim blowers.
Paxton SN-*, VR4, Novi 1k* and 2k* blowers.
Ati Poocharger P600b and D1R.
Powerdyne garbage...dont even remember the model number, I saw the internal belt and about died laughing...
*** Yeah, that is a joke, but back to the ATI/Vortech debate
When I ran the D1R, had some issues with belt slippage (imagine that!)...called ATI for some tech support and they said tighten the belt. They said tighten it till it snaps, and then dont tighten the next one quite as much...
***The Tech is an idiot. Was he gonna send a free replacement
belt???***
The bracket sucked. Flexed pretty badly-I'll try to find a pic of my old custom blower brace Long story short, I will not buy another procharger, no matter how good the deal is.
***Seems the V6 kits are pretty stout, but this is not a good
thing. Ask for 2 brackets and double them up, (JK) but it should be
stout as-delivered. Bad Brackets Suck! Probably due to cost cutting
to be competitive in the 5.0 SC market, bad practice. Advantage, Vortech.***
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStangChik
They make power, but with a procharger you have to make more boost to make the same power the vortech makes with lower boost. Also procharger uses a blow through mass air and its harder to tune.. That my opinion as to why i think they SUCK!
***The tuners say this is the best way to go, true, it is harder to tune
but a suck thru MAF is restrictive. A MAF under 15# of boost flows double
what it does under no boost, and it also automatically compensates
somewhat for charge heating cuz the MAF element is a hot-wire element.
Suck-thru (or draw thru) needs a MAF body that is large enough to not
impede incoming flow, notice that the Lightning MAF is 90mm now?
That will be and added expense for Vortech users with high boost
setups that use suck-thru, but they can convert to blow-thru as well.
Suck-thru sucks BlueStangChik! Blow-thru is best!!!***
Heres a little story, back in Feburary of 2002:
Car#1.) DSS Bullet 306, Ported Trick Flow(300ish CFM) heads and intake, ATI P600b intercooled setup pulley'd at 21/17psi*, speedbrain engine management and about 6 hours and countless pulls tuning on the dyno- 471rwhp.
***Could be that SpeedBrain is harder to use than SCT software, my
tuner has no problems whatsoever...***
****Procharger uses 21/17 to rate the boost because they lose at least 4psi
over their intercooler..imagine what a Vortech would do making 21 psi *******
***Any IC has a boost loss, cooler denser air will read at less pressure,
ever heard of Boyle's Gas Law? Even Vortechs lose "boost" in a IC, and would
lose exactly the same amount in that same intercooler. ATI IC's are not
known for the highest efficiency, that was possibly their 2 core.***
Car#2.) Stock shortblock, Edelbrock performer RPM heads and intake, Vortech S-trim with a 2.65 and 6.785" pulley(approx. 18psi), no intercooler, stock A9L, 3rd pull on the dyno just messing with Fuel Pressure Regulator and Distributor.
613 rwhp(baseline was 577, second pull was 599).
***Darn good, but these are 2 totally different setups and this one was
using the stock tuning accoutrements, which are quite commonly known
to most tuners. I bet these were even different tuning shops, and/or the
speedbrain setup was unfamiliar to the tuner. The ATI setup was definitely
under performing, due to some unknown reason. But the Vortech Rocked,
I'll give you that! ***
That was all the proof I needed. First hand the cars sounded and behaved dramatically different. Sure ATI's claims that intercooled boost is more efficient are accurate, as long as you dont mind comparing 20psi to 15psi at the blower's outlet.
***What is needed is Vortech IC Vs. ATI IC setups. Any slanted
comparison can make the best hardware look bad compared to junk
that is well-excuted (Don't get me wrong, Vortech is a great unit)
but my point is that Great parts, poorly executed, are no match for
normal, good old proven non-flashy setups with great planning and
execution.
EXAMPLE: I consulted on a low-buck 4.2 with my older obsolete cam
that kills a competitors high-$$$$ 4.3 longblock setup with a much
larger cam and Forged rotating assembly and "pro" assembly. The
cheap 4.2 used a JY crank, rods and pistons, self built by the owner.
265/280 RWHP/TQ over the hi-$ 259/260 RWHP/TQ forged, big cam setup.
Planning and execution > cubic dollars