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Old 02-20-2005, 01:14 PM   #1
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cylinder heads. which ones better?

Hi all.
I'm planning to get cylinder heads. Would like to get second opinion.
Anybody familiar with RPM heads and SSM heads?
What is the difference between Max Effort Heads from RPM and Stage 2 from SSM. Is there other places to get heads from?
Also I'm planning to get cam.
I have mustang 00, V6, auto.
Thanks an advance.
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Old 02-20-2005, 02:42 PM   #2
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http://mustangevolution.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=12430

There ya go
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Old 02-20-2005, 03:02 PM   #3
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As for the heads go with the RPM heads, but you might wanna get your cam from me. I will be offering custom spec'd cams here very soon. But if you want a run of the mill cam, you can get that from RPM too. I just thought I'd let you know. We will also be doing a GP here very soon, once we get all the details worked out.
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Old 02-21-2005, 02:14 AM   #4
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thank yuo for reply.
that thread really helped me.
RPM it is.
Now I'm trying to understand what is full machine work, and difference between
Max Effort Cylinder Heads and Basic Cylinder heads.
thank you guys.
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Old 02-23-2005, 01:22 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97Stallion
As for the heads go with the RPM heads, but you might wanna get your cam from me. I will be offering custom spec'd cams here very soon. But if you want a run of the mill cam, you can get that from RPM too. I just thought I'd let you know. We will also be doing a GP here very soon, once we get all the details worked out.
I wouldn't say my cams are run of the mill, they're matched to my cylinder heads. Some of the cams for stock configurations are off the shelf or run of the mill or whatever you want to call them. But that's mainly because most people have very similar setups.
You and RGR's cams will be a good chunk more expensive than mine, no? Of course I understand this is a sacrifice in order to have more cam lobes available. I mean not to knock you here, but I'm getting a little tired of having the "generic cam" finger pointed at me recently. I have a number of cams that work really well in various configurations, and some that are specifically matched to the E/I ratios of my various cylinder heads.

As for your questions rasputinlv...
"full machinework package" should be describe on the site but in case it's not obvious on there it is valve job, resurface, new guides and seals, cleaning and assembly.

Max Effort (split port) heads have a higher flow exhaust port than the Basic heads.
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Old 02-23-2005, 01:46 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikael
I wouldn't say my cams are run of the mill, they're matched to my cylinder heads. Some of the cams for stock configurations are off the shelf or run of the mill or whatever you want to call them. But that's mainly because most people have very similar setups.
You and RGR's cams will be a good chunk more expensive than mine, no? Of course I understand this is a sacrifice in order to have more cam lobes available. I mean not to knock you here, but I'm getting a little tired of having the "generic cam" finger pointed at me recently. I have a number of cams that work really well in various configurations, and some that are specifically matched to the E/I ratios of my various cylinder heads.

As for your questions rasputinlv...
"full machinework package" should be describe on the site but in case it's not obvious on there it is valve job, resurface, new guides and seals, cleaning and assembly.

Max Effort (split port) heads have a higher flow exhaust port than the Basic heads.
Welcome man been awhile since I have seen you post on the site.
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Old 02-23-2005, 04:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
Welcome man been awhile since I have seen you post on the site.
Thanks. I'm going to try my best to actually cruise all the sites now. Oddly enough, I tend to visit more sites when I'm busier than trolling when business is down. So the busier you guys keep me the more tech advice you get on the boards
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Old 02-23-2005, 04:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikael
Thanks. I'm going to try my best to actually cruise all the sites now. Oddly enough, I tend to visit more sites when I'm busier than trolling when business is down. So the busier you guys keep me the more tech advice you get on the boards
I send who I can to ya.

How much longer till you think you will have my cam specced out and a final price including my cores?

Right now I have
3 upper Intakes
3 Lower Intakes
2 Heads
2 Cams

Also I want to get some adjustable roller rockers 1.73 since I am going this far.

What compression do you think I will be at with dished pistons?
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Old 02-23-2005, 04:48 PM   #9
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the BEST our there are the CNC ones pete sells but... those are extremly expensive, with just porting i would go with rpm-mustangs.com
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Old 02-24-2005, 08:33 AM   #10
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I went with RPM and I dont regret it. Even though I havnt got near the numbers I should have yet... Mik has helped me alot and still is even to this day. Im nearly positive my bad numbers are due to bad tune and mainly my cats. Mik is going to help me with my tune alot... As soon as im ready Mik is going to have my chip reburned. All I need is my a/f.
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Old 02-26-2005, 09:32 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikael
I wouldn't say my cams are run of the mill, they're matched to my cylinder heads. Some of the cams for stock configurations are off the shelf or run of the mill or whatever you want to call them. But that's mainly because most people have very similar setups.
You and RGR's cams will be a good chunk more expensive than mine, no? Of course I understand this is a sacrifice in order to have more cam lobes available. I mean not to knock you here, but I'm getting a little tired of having the "generic cam" finger pointed at me recently. I have a number of cams that work really well in various configurations, and some that are specifically matched to the E/I ratios of my various cylinder heads.

As for your questions rasputinlv...
"full machinework package" should be describe on the site but in case it's not obvious on there it is valve job, resurface, new guides and seals, cleaning and assembly.

Max Effort (split port) heads have a higher flow exhaust port than the Basic heads.

Correct Mik, the goal is to offer a wider variety of lobes and more modern
ramps than many regrinders (non-mfg. level) offer, and the prices will start a
little bit higher depending on the grinder used and of course, spring selection.
I have currently 3 lists I can select from now, and of course if the customer
insists on the most economical grind, I have stated that I can still spec a cam
and refer it back thru RPM.

More later
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You are the true cam master dude...
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Old 02-26-2005, 12:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGR
Correct Mik, the goal is to offer a wider variety of lobes and more modern
ramps than many regrinders (non-mfg. level) offer, and the prices will start a
little bit higher depending on the grinder used and of course, spring selection.
I have currently 3 lists I can select from now, and of course if the customer
insists on the most economical grind, I have stated that I can still spec a cam
and refer it back thru RPM.

More later
Example of modern lobes vs. older, New Lobes have less
advertised duration, similar .050" duration and more
duration at every lift point above that. More Tq & HP!
But of course many of these lobes require better springs
than the base lobes do. It all comes down to the mighty dollar,
but people with stock or mildly ported heads on a 3.8 will now
have the capability of vastly surpassing the old combos that
originally developed.

When Mik and I were coming up, I was doing the combo design,
Mik was doing mainly the retail parts, (but he was a good guy to
run setups by cuz he has a great analytical mind and really learned
alot!) We were not limiting ourselves with low lift cams and stock
springs, which is cheap for the end user but somewhat limiting...
So it was easy to make up a better cam combo because of lack of limits
like springs and pushrods. Now the real cam designing techniques are
coming into play, and using newer lobes can really help the Tq and HP curves.

I have a little chart I made up comparing an older 207 Lobe
with several new gen. 206 lobes, it is not entirely 100% accurate
because I had to ask the cam grinder what the advertised "might be"
on the older 207 lobe, but I did try and err on the forgiving side, and
give it the benefit of the doubt. The true readings could be longer as
far as advertised durations go, and the general rule is that less advertised
with the same .050" is better than more advertised duration.


OK, Some comparisons, using a possible
Lobe, let's select a couple 206 hi-ramp
lobes versus the old 207:

* used below means "duration in degrees"

Advertised*......050"*.......200"*......Total Lift
...273..............207.........110........505"
...262..............206.........116........519"
...260..............206.........126........576"

And I have several other lobes at 206 and 208,
the point of the above is that lower advertised
durations and similar .050" ratings make more
Torque, and the higher .200" readings make more HP
while total lift increases help everything.
Even Mik's grinder has way better lobes than a 207,
but the customer has to get the hi-$ springs.
Sorry, Mik, I'm not telling!
(JK man, you already know that!)



Either one of these 206 lobe examples will make more torque and HP
than the 207 lobe example. That is why they have been designing
the new hi-ramp lobes.


I think Rob got the run-of-the-mill stuff from my lobe references,
not the cams in general.
We will not have any advertised cam specs that the buyer can select,
they just want what "Joe-Blow" has that made X-number HP and it
might be for a single port when they have spilt port or vice-versa.
Or Stroker vs. 3.8, so every cam will be a custom cam. But if 2 people
had the exact same combo, budget, and expectations,
they could get exact the same cam.


I can spec out a cam for any combo or budget,
if the end user want to step up with more budget
then a cam can be ground that makes more Tq. and HP
with the same streetable RPM characteristics as the
existing grinds.

[plug]
I've been doing these cams specs for Mustang V6's
longer than anyone in the US and will continue doing
so, there are a good # of porting places (RPM = My Fave )
I'm just concentrating on what I consider the "Final Frontier"
and that is total combo design. I can churn out cam specs and
Rob can get them made, that way the delivery times and customer
service are top notch, to match the actual product!
[/plug]
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Originally Posted by Flex:
You are the true cam master dude...
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