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Old 07-14-2005, 05:47 PM   #1
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How stout is the stock block?

Oh, I have seen some vids lately that have me waffling on my next build up car more than John Kerry in a presidential campaign. So, I need to find out some info on the stock 99+ V6 block and it's capabilities.

I have talked about building up a foxbody, but people just want way too much for them at this point. And since I am not in a position to buy one yet, I am weighing my options.

So, what options to I have with the stock V6 block. Here are my thoughts on this. Pick up a 99-04 3.8(9)L coupe. Take said engine and have it bored out, stoke it to 4.2L, and add a paxton or vortech pushing whatever PSI is needed to reach the 400ish rwhp mark. Maybe even tinker with the idea of some giggle juice on top of it all for track fun.

So, here are my questions:

1.) How much boring can the stock block take and be used in a forced induction situation? I would probably only be looking to go about 30 over.
2.) How much can the stock block take as far as HP? I am only looking at around 400 rwhp as a goal, so it isn't like I am going to go ape **** with it. It will be my daily driver too so reliable and bullet proof are the key words here.

I know I will need to go real stout with my internals so I will have to talk to Rob probably about his 4.2L offerings to see what my options are in the forged world.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Opinions? Should I just STFU until I am ready to buy?
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Old 07-14-2005, 05:49 PM   #2
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Rob...go for it, I know where you can find a nice little 3.8...
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Old 07-14-2005, 06:08 PM   #3
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Well I personally haven't seen a limit to the 3.8/4.2 block. I knjow quite a few people pushing around the 400bhp mark, but not the 400rwhp mark. GT-Eater is the only one I can think of with over 400rwhp at the moment. Anyways, i would definately think the block would hold way more than 400rwhp. One thing you may consider is that the V6 block is ALOT lighter than a V8 block. So 400rwhp will get you moving better in your lighter car. I'm still working the camshaft angle somewhat with a guy from Canada, so hopefully that'll be happening soon. Right now what I would recommend is a 4.3L Block and forged internals, split port P&P intakes and BV P&P heads with something around 208/214 for the cam and then add the 70mm TB and SC it and tune it and you should be very close to the 400rwhp mark then. Everyone that e-mail me at my site, I e-mail them back a battle plan with a checklist so they have an idea where to get the parts from and that way they can make sure they have everything before they start to build. I can work with you no problem. I'm trying to redo the website still, but you can always PM me or e-mail me and I'll work you as best as possible. I'll also steer you away from all the things I learn like doing it once instead of twice or three times like I did.
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Old 07-14-2005, 06:26 PM   #4
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The battle plan route is what I was probably going to do once I figure out what is going on. It sounds like I will be able to get to my HP desires, but I do have one question. Is teh 4.3L block you speak of just a stroked out 3.9? or is it a completely different block?

Looking at your numbers, and assuming the 99+ v6 runs a little higher, what kind of psi would I be looking at for 400s do you think? It looks like I will need at least 150 rwhp more to hit 400. That would be what, about 15ish psi or so?
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Old 07-14-2005, 06:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurfin
The battle plan route is what I was probably going to do once I figure out what is going on. It sounds like I will be able to get to my HP desires, but I do have one question. Is teh 4.3L block you speak of just a stroked out 3.9? or is it a completely different block?

Looking at your numbers, and assuming the 99+ v6 runs a little higher, what kind of psi would I be looking at for 400s do you think? It looks like I will need at least 150 rwhp more to hit 400. That would be what, about 15ish psi or so?
Works like this:

any 94-2004 V6 Block will do for you. Whether or not you want to stay single port or splitport is up to you as well.

If you are going to add a poweradder stay splitport as the limits to the singleport are in the heads and only affected on N/A engines. When you have air being forced into the heads it all goes out the window.

White95V6 on this site has a single port 700RWHP V6 Mustang running low 10's.

What I would do if I were you:

4.2L Crankshaft
.40 overbore (If you want to get brave .60 is not unheard of)
Forged Pistons 8.3:1 - 9.0:1Compression ratio
New Piston Rings
Forged H-Beam Eagle H Beam Rods
Single Port Big Valve Heads
New High Lift Springs
Adjustable 1.73 Roller Rockers
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Stage 3 Lower Intake
Cut and Weld Upper Intake with 70MM TB Opening
Supercharger of your choice
New Fuel Pump (Not sure how big)
Fuel Injectors(again not sure how big)
8.8 with 3.55 Gears
One hell of a tranny

If your going to do it do it right and don't skimp.

If you are serious I can help...

The block will handle it dont worry about that....
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Old 07-14-2005, 06:49 PM   #6
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There are about 10 people that have broken the 400 rwhp mark and several on stock bottom ends.
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Old 07-14-2005, 08:16 PM   #7
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Hey rob, gary (gteater) lives about 3 hours from you tops, you should get up with him and talk shop to see what you are wanting to do.
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Old 07-14-2005, 08:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slvr2000stang
There are about 10 people that have broken the 400 rwhp mark and several on stock bottom ends.

Yep.

Even more impressive are the time's they have put down at the track with all that power and they still last.

However, if I was going to do a big buildup it would either be a DOHC or a 331...either with a turbo. The amount of power they both would make would be more than enough and would make for a VERY fun street/strip car.

I'm going this route this winter, after I part out the v6 and make it my daily driver. I just haven't decided if I want modular or pushrod.
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Old 07-14-2005, 09:11 PM   #9
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Smurfin, do you want to buy my v6. Unfortunately it is an auto. I will throw in all the stuff i've bought for it to. Im trying to get a manual tran gt or fox body. anyway specs are 02 great shape, only 36 thousand miles. 12 grand
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Old 07-14-2005, 09:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangin99
Yep.

Even more impressive are the time's they have put down at the track with all that power and they still last.

However, if I was going to do a big buildup it would either be a DOHC or a 331...either with a turbo. The amount of power they both would make would be more than enough and would make for a VERY fun street/strip car.

I'm going this route this winter, after I part out the v6 and make it my daily driver. I just haven't decided if I want modular or pushrod.
I will already have a ~550 rwhp V8 in the stable by this time once I get the port work or the KB next year, and I want to do something sleeper-ish with the V6. I want to be able to punk some Fbody folks, GT smack talkers, ricers, and anyone else with a car that they think they will smoke me with. I don't want to go turbos so I am going to SC it. It will be my daily driver so I don't want to go too far over the top, but we will see what happens when I get there.

I still haven't completely made up my mind as my other thread talking about engine builders and such is talking about the exact thing you mention, only I will be doing it in some sort of Fox body. I am thinking about breaking my rebuilding cherry on the V6 though. Haven't had to do too much with the current car to nail high numbers, so it doesn't count.
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Old 07-14-2005, 09:13 PM   #11
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buy mine
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Old 07-14-2005, 09:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBone
buy mine
Are you trying to send me a hint? lol

I am not buying a car at this immediate time. I am trying to make sure I know which I want to go with...a fox like you mention or a V6. I am still waffling everytime the wind changes.

If you still have it and are selling it when I am ready, I will certainly take a look at it. Being an auto is no biggie because it will just come out anyhow as I would be replacing the tranny whether it is a manual or an auto. It will be a T56 so I don't make that annoying *** mistake of putting the 5 speed in reverse while cruising thinking it is 6th gear like I do with my truck. Thank god for reverse lockout.
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Old 07-14-2005, 09:31 PM   #13
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haha. i just loved the car. being 19 i pour all my money into paying it off. anyway im having a hard time finding anything. im going to be going to college in fall and that means driving about 40 miles every day so i like the v6. i didnt think that there was a good way to convert from auto to manual. if you wouldnt mind pming me some info on it because i am very interested in doing it. i have a decent job and no real bills other than ins. so i would definitly want to do it. any info on what i would need and possible quotes would be great. should i have a private shop do it or go through ford or what.
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Old 07-14-2005, 10:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurfin
I will already have a ~550 rwhp V8 in the stable by this time once I get the port work or the KB next year, and I want to do something sleeper-ish with the V6. I want to be able to punk some Fbody folks, GT smack talkers, ricers, and anyone else with a car that they think they will smoke me with. I don't want to go turbos so I am going to SC it. It will be my daily driver so I don't want to go too far over the top, but we will see what happens when I get there.

I still haven't completely made up my mind as my other thread talking about engine builders and such is talking about the exact thing you mention, only I will be doing it in some sort of Fox body. I am thinking about breaking my rebuilding cherry on the V6 though. Haven't had to do too much with the current car to nail high numbers, so it doesn't count.
The setup I suggested is very street driveable on 93 octane and you can easily see 400rwhp with it and a bottom end that will no doubt handle it.
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Old 07-15-2005, 08:37 AM   #15
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Well everybody has already given good advice except for the cam ,on a supercharged engine pushing 14 to 15 Psi the cam needs to be much bigger
4.3 liters like big cams .
Just make sure you have an 8.8 already installed and if it is a standard tranny get ready to change that out as well. A T-56 is a poor choice for a track car ,it's heavier and the extra gear is merely an extra overdrive which you would never use at the track. A G-Force T-5 with helical cut gears
will hold up nicely ,it's lighter and cheaper .
Compression ratio 9.0:1 would be cool ,your already going to be
running 93 octane anyway,now if you are going to go turbo the yeah the 8.2 compression ratio would be the way to go,because you would probably be making 19 to 25 Psi of boost .
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Old 07-15-2005, 09:12 AM   #16
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o.k., i don't mean to get off topic here but i have a couple of stupid questions regarding some of the things mentioned here. what is the difference between RWHP and BHP. i'm guessing RWHP is rear-wheel hp. and i know one is "at the crank", but what is that? also, what is with the single port and split port? i know nothing about any of that.
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Old 07-15-2005, 10:23 AM   #17
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RWHP = Rear wheel Horsepower
BHP = Horsepower at the crank before the tranny ,rear end .

The earlier 3.8's had a single port One intake runner ,the 99+ have two intake runners one short ,one longer runner.

Hope that helps you
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Old 07-15-2005, 12:41 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT-Eater
A T-56 is a poor choice for a track car ,it's heavier and the extra gear is merely an extra overdrive which you would never use at the track. A G-Force T-5 with helical cut gears
will hold up nicely ,it's lighter and cheaper .
I don't think he wants this to be a track car, he wants it to be a street sleeper/daily driver.
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Old 07-15-2005, 01:02 PM   #19
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with a good tune 500rwhp will probably be the limit for a good live on the block
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Old 07-15-2005, 01:06 PM   #20
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Well Matts got 550+RWHP on a 97 block and I plan on going 600+
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Old 07-15-2005, 01:11 PM   #21
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yea, but thats just a matter of time lol ...
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Old 07-15-2005, 01:19 PM   #22
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I personally think the 3.8 block will handle well over 500 HP long term. It is a pretty durable block and fairly beefy. I have taken 3 apart abd 1 SC block and I see nothing to suggest they have a adherent weekness. You can judge a lot by the cylinder wall thickness and there is no problems with them. The only weekness was the heads up to 95 with the poor placement of the water jackets.
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Old 07-15-2005, 01:31 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by SpectorV
yea, but thats just a matter of time lol ...
Yeah But until someone breaks a block with high HP we really don't know what the limit is ,and My point was Matt is making 700 hp and his block has not given up and I don't think it will, the 01 -04 blocks are beefier than the 97 block so I don't think the block is going to be a problem but there's only
one way to find out.
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Old 07-15-2005, 03:13 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT-Eater
Well everybody has already given good advice except for the cam ,on a supercharged engine pushing 14 to 15 Psi the cam needs to be much bigger
4.3 liters like big cams .
This all depends on the route he decides to go. A single port engine will need a much bigger cam like my 224/230 cam, but the split ports can utilize a much smaller cam and be even more effective. This way he will have better vacuum with the "smaller" cam. Stock is suppose to be somewhere around 17-22hg/in mine with my cam is about 14hg/in. I still have plenty of vacuum, but the split port intake and heads are just a way better design.
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Old 07-15-2005, 04:00 PM   #25
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Split port engines also like big cams too I will be running one slightly bigger than the one you mention ,mostly for cranking compression reasons ,but Michael Konners has a big cam in his 4.3 ,and so does Tom Y ,both are split ports .
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Old 07-15-2005, 04:06 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT-Eater
Split port engines also like big cams too I will be running one slightly bigger than the one you mention ,mostly for cranking compression reasons ,but Michael Konners has a big cam in his 4.3 ,and so does Tom Y ,both are split ports .
The real difference in Split port and Single port cams is split port cams dont need excessive overlap. Actually in most street applications most cams people install have to much overlap or are really bigger than they need
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Old 07-15-2005, 04:15 PM   #27
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In supercharged engines a little + overlap is good on turboed cars - overlap is good Just depends on the set up. Most street cars are N/A and I would agree a big cam is not necessary in these cases.
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Old 07-15-2005, 04:40 PM   #28
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That is true I was really talking about N/A engines
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Old 07-26-2005, 09:46 PM   #29
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Ok, time to resurect this thread. I am looking at a 2001 V6 currently and will be checking out what kind of deal I might be able to get on it. It is currently listed at about $5500 at a mitsubishi dealership so I want to see what is wrong with it and try to work something. I have taken what everyone has said and noticed some links in other threads to super six and rpm. Well, they have crate engines, short blocks, and long blocks. Sounds like a good idea to me. Less chance for a mistake and may end up saving me some money in the end.

Anyhow, how are their reps? Anyone delt with them? I pm'ed GT-Eater about this, but thought I would check everyone else's opinions as well. It looks like I can get what I need in some form whether it be a short/long block or just a flat out crate engine. It would make life easier I think.

So...opinions?
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Old 07-26-2005, 09:50 PM   #30
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Super six knows their stuff...
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Old 07-26-2005, 09:58 PM   #31
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Yes they do If you look in the Show and tell ,under New Pistons and rods,that is the same thing Tom puts in his long rod set ups ,Wiseco pistons and Scat H-Beam rods which requires no maching to clearence the counterweights .
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Old 07-26-2005, 10:11 PM   #32
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When you say tom, who are you refering to?
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Old 07-26-2005, 10:13 PM   #33
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Tom Yentzer owner of SSM.
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Old 07-26-2005, 10:32 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurfin
When you say tom, who are you refering to?
Dude get with the program!!!

There are 2 names you should always know when mentioned Tom@SSM and Mik@RPM. You should also remember Rob@RDM and Justin@VMP
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Old 07-26-2005, 11:00 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Dude
Dude get with the program!!!

There are 2 names you should always know when mentioned Tom@SSM and Mik@RPM. You should also remember Rob@RDM and Justin@VMP
Yeah, what was I thinking. lol. I knew the Rob one as that is the easiest for my feable mind to remember. The rest...no clue. Hell, I just found out about super six and rpm tonight. lol. I remember them mentioned before, but, never paid attention to them since I have a V8.

Names are now noted. lol
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