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Old 08-02-2005, 07:23 PM   #1
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Question Need help making a decision

Hey i have a 99 V6 stang that needs more power. My engine is stock and i'd like to get a stage 3 power package from supersixmotorsports. The cost is around $2,200.... I know for sure i want to keep my car for as long as possible since i can't afford to buy another car and upgrade it. My car has 65,000 miles and running ok.
My question is......Would it be better to save my money for the crate engine ($5,800) or just add on the power packages as i go?? I'm not a mechanic so i can't do all of the installs myself which means i'd have to pay to have the engine hoisted a couple of times before i'm done with what i want, and i'm sure that won't be cheap. I'm a student so i can't work full time and i don't want to spend a ton of money but still want something reliable and of good quality.
Maybe if someone could list the pro's and con's of the power packages v.s. getting the whole engine at once. I don't know all the details because i haven't done something like this so i don't know how hard any of these options will be.
I figure if i'm gonna spend a few thousand bucks getting these packages seperately i mind as well get the whole engine but i can't make up my mind.
or maybe if you know where i could build an engine up for less that would be great too. my stang is a daily driver and need to be careful of emissions since i'm in California. thanks for your help.
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Old 08-02-2005, 07:46 PM   #2
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Re: Need help making a decision

Any time you tear into the motor you take a risk. If you REALLY trust the people who are doing the work thats one thing.. but you never really know what you are getting into.

I would contact both supersix and rpm-mustangs.com to talk to them about what all they offer.

Before I droped 6k into my car I would just sell it and buy another car that was closer to what I wanted in the end. Just sit down and decide what you want your end result to be, if you want teh v6, v8, other what ever that may be and dont put money into something that will not get you there.
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Old 08-02-2005, 08:54 PM   #3
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Re: Need help making a decision

that's the thing, i can't afford payments for a V8 or even insurance. and if i bought another 6 i wouldn't have money left over to mod it out... my car is paid off and that's why i kinda want to put money into it because i know i want to have it around for a long time....I'd rather be out there beating V8's or suped up 4 bangers and be able to say i did it with a 6. to me that's bragging rights. i know i don't need a huge engine or insane amount of horsepower to be fast. that's why i want to do this right and pull out all the tricks possible to make it quick.
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Old 08-02-2005, 11:10 PM   #4
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Re: Need help making a decision

ive talked to the guys at super6 for a good while but never made a decision because random things come up haha
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Old 08-03-2005, 09:13 AM   #5
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Re: Need help making a decision

yea..since your not wanting insane hp, its a d/d, and you can't afford payments on v8...i'd put some $$$ into the six. But hp isn't something most people become content with once they reach a certain amount..i'd still say do some stuff to the v6 and maybe later on in life you will be raking in enough cash for a monster
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Old 08-03-2005, 12:53 PM   #6
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Re: Need help making a decision

yea horsepower becomes addicting. that's kinda why i want to do it in intervals, but then again in the long run it's cheaper to do it all at once. it would just be nice knowing that i have something to work towards and be able to add mods until i think it's perfect. if it is worth keeping then i wanna do some suspension for sure and get those P&P cylinder heads and keep going from there.
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Old 08-03-2005, 01:05 PM   #7
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Re: Need help making a decision

Ok, here is my thoughts. I agree with Kyle, it is hard to be content with a HP number which is why I am trying to avoid the kenne bell. I know 600 hp won't be enough for me when I know I could push more with it.

Your car can be built to push a ton of power. I am going to be starting a V6 build next year with 450-500 rwhp as my goal. In my mind, it would make a little more sense to save up for the crate engine. You would save yourself some labor costs for the fact that you would be doing everything at once instead of a bit here, a bit there. There would only be one engine removal. Also, you could then sell the engine you take out and recoup some of the money you spent. Maybe not a ton, but a little is better than none.

Also, you could get everything you want in the crate engine, know it is ready for a power adder down the road, and be all set to add on more power when the urge and money hits you.

As for installation, do you have any handy friends/relatives/neighbors? If you have any of the mentioned that are gear heads, mechanics, etc, maybe they might be interested in helping you do the swap. This too is another reason to get a crate engine, a complete engine swap is easier (in my mind) than having to tear an engine down and put it back together. It is just unhook, pull out, put in, hook up.

If you don't know any handy people, depending on where you live (I don't know where Atherton is) and what forums you are a member of, you could always throw a mod party with forum members. Obviously, this is where everyone gets together and helps everyone mod their cars. The michigan folks on one of my forums do this all the time and it works very well.

If absolutely none of the above are an option, check around at garages and see if they might cut you a break on labor if you offer to help them out. It would be a nice way to save a couple of bucks as well as get some hands on experience at the same time. There is a place here that is like that. He usually cuts his cost almost in half, sometimes completely free, if you offer to help him with the labor.

Ok, my fingers are getting tired. So, in summary, get the crate engine. It will save you some in labor, you can sell your current to recoup cash, everything is fresh and ready for more power later.
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Old 08-03-2005, 04:54 PM   #8
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Re: Need help making a decision

yea i'm leaning towards the new engine now. i want to have a strong powertrain so i can feel confident my car will perform when i want and last a good while longer. However i really don't want to pay $6,000 when Edlebrock and other companies have complete engines pushing 350bhp and selling for less than $4,000. Only problem is i don't have a car to put those big engines in to.
Also if i had more power i assume i would have to make my back end stronger so i don't break an axle or whatever. I need to know all the things i gotta get to accomodate the engine, and make sure everything fits together smooth and works properly.
Hopefully this fall i'll be sighned up for an engine performance class at a communtiy college in my area. maybe i'll find some people who will help with the install and i'll be able to learn more....
thanks for your opinions
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Old 08-03-2005, 05:01 PM   #9
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Re: Need help making a decision

Keep in mind, you won't be pushing the high HP right away, so once you get the engine you can start saving up for the required high HP supporting mods like tranny, rear end, axels, etc. You won't need those right away since the engine alone won't push you over their operating limits.
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Old 08-03-2005, 05:04 PM   #10
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Re: Need help making a decision

yea..that sounds like a good plan..i kinda thought you would have a hard time paying insurance on a v8 but i guess not. And before i dropped in the crate, i'd build up the car a little first with springs, shocks/struts, 8.8 rear, maybe some subframe connectors too, all that to handle the extra weight and hp..ya know
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Old 08-03-2005, 05:19 PM   #11
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Re: Need help making a decision

I'm in the same boat with you for the most part. I really cannot give you accurate advice on what to do, but I'd agree with these guys just because it makes sense. My thing is to attempt to push 400+rwhp out of my V-6, or swap an '01 Cobra engine. Now I would like input on this and tell me which of the two should I do
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Old 08-03-2005, 05:23 PM   #12
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Re: Need help making a decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadez81
I'm in the same boat with you for the most part. I really cannot give you accurate advice on what to do, but I'd agree with these guys just because it makes sense. My thing is to attempt to push 400+rwhp out of my V-6, or swap an '01 Cobra engine. Now I would like input on this and tell me which of the two should I do
Do the 400+ with the V6. I have a thread about how stout the V6 block is where everyone threw out their advice on what to do. There are a number of people, even some on this site, that are pushing over 400 at the wheels with their V6. Go forged internals, Supercharger/turbo charger, and you will be all set. Granted, it will require some other changes like tranny/rear/axels/etc, but you will need those changes with the V8 swap (and more for the swap).

So, do the V6 buildup. Plus, it will be more fun to tell someone they just got beat by a V6...lol
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Old 08-03-2005, 05:35 PM   #13
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Re: Need help making a decision

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Originally Posted by Smurfin
Do the 400+ with the V6. I have a thread about how stout the V6 block is where everyone threw out their advice on what to do. There are a number of people, even some on this site, that are pushing over 400 at the wheels with their V6. Go forged internals, Supercharger/turbo charger, and you will be all set. Granted, it will require some other changes like tranny/rear/axels/etc, but you will need those changes with the V8 swap (and more for the swap).

So, do the V6 buildup. Plus, it will be more fun to tell someone they just got beat by a V6...lol
what's the name of the thread? I'd really like to get that info
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Old 08-03-2005, 09:00 PM   #14
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Re: Need help making a decision

How stout is the stock block?
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Old 08-04-2005, 07:55 AM   #15
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Re: Need help making a decision

before you go building your engine, make sure your exhaust, induction, and rear end are up to the task

dual exhaust will help your engine breathe better, cold air induction will give your engine a cooler charge, and a built 7.5 or 8.8 rear differential will strengthen your rear so you don't risk breaking it. and don't forget about suspension. all the power in the world does no good if your car is all over the road
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Old 08-06-2005, 11:03 AM   #16
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Re: Need help making a decision

65k is nothing to worry about for an n/a car. Hell even under moderate boost you will be fine.

I am at 94k+ miles and still race my car at the track every week(have over 120 timeslips now). Car dosn't burn any oil, has perfect compression, and runs better than when I bought it 4 years ago with 20k on it. And for boost, my buddy Keith is running an 11psi procharger and has over 105k on his car, and ran 13.1 @ 104 last night on his bone stock motor...so they can take a punishment.

Just get that tune perfect.
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Old 08-06-2005, 12:44 PM   #17
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Re: Need help making a decision

if you look into it and get an older v8 it will be cheaper, alot cheaper. If your insurance is that much... then change agents/brands or stop BREAKING THE LAW or get older lol
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Old 08-07-2005, 01:43 PM   #18
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Re: Need help making a decision

i've been pulled over several times but ticketed once. the reason why it's so high is because i'm only 21 and in california they like to jack us around with insurance. I don't want an old V8 that's putting out the same or close to a 6. i want to be able to beat them and say i did it with a 6. there's just more sense of pride involved.

and as far as 65k not being too much i don't know cuz my car has definitly lost power and feels tired when i'm not running my predator tune. i bought it used with 30k on it and i'm wondering if somebody abused it before and is now taking it's toll. the good thing about a new performance 6 engine is that it's a fresh start and i can have my car around for a lot longer and be able to add all the mods i've always wanted.

I don't plan on buying a crate engine soon because i have NO money, but if the possibility is out there which it sounds like, then i have something to work towards and keep me motivated. plus if i buy small things for my car now i won't think it's a waste since i'll be having it around for a while if i get a new engine and it will all come together in the end... thats my thinking.
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Old 08-07-2005, 02:13 PM   #19
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Re: Need help making a decision

I went the supersix route and am happy I did. First of all I would say figure out how much the labor on the install is going to be so you can have a complete picture. That will make the decision easier. Also, it just depends on what you personally want to spend and want to have in the end. Either way, always estimate higher for the additional parts you may not have realized you needed yet.
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Old 08-08-2005, 04:05 PM   #20
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Re: Need help making a decision

wendy what did you get from supersix? and why did you decide to go that route?
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Old 08-08-2005, 06:31 PM   #21
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Re: Need help making a decision

I am convinced that Tom and company build some good products, but they are by no means the only people out there that do, RPM has some good stuff, and Morana in Canada is great, and is personally an old racer himself. Don't buy without comparing that is all I have to say!
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Old 08-08-2005, 06:36 PM   #22
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Re: Need help making a decision

I wanted to mention this as well, that lost power you are feeling in your car could be as simple as a tune up, a new fuel filter, set of wires, plugs, etc, something very simple and not that expensive.
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Old 08-08-2005, 07:39 PM   #23
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Re: Need help making a decision

just had a tune up. new fuel filter, platinum spark plugs, coolant flush and filter changed, oil changed...
i'm thinking my o2 sensors may be getting old or messed up from the high octane i've run in the past. my car has almost 65k on it. i'm thinking the a/f mixture isn't correct and that may cause my bad gas mileage and throttle response...
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Old 08-09-2005, 09:33 AM   #24
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Re: Need help making a decision

Hmmm, could be, bad o2 would mess with a/f mix. I also notice you didn't get new plug wires. I haven't ever heard of high octane fuel ruining O2s though.
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Old 08-09-2005, 11:20 AM   #25
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Re: Need help making a decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by I_luv_HP&trq
i'm thinking my o2 sensors may be getting old or messed up from the high octane i've run in the past.
Where did you hear that load of crap. High octane will not hurt cars. If I ever read this again on this site I am going on a Jihad myself and out all who spew that bull*****!!!! BY GOD

Please whomever is putting out this stuff stop!!!! We dont need Tards in the community spreading lies and myths!!!!!
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Old 08-09-2005, 12:30 PM   #26
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Re: Need help making a decision

High octane doesn't hurt...but also doesn't help any on a stock car unless you are tuned for it.
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Old 08-09-2005, 12:41 PM   #27
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Re: Need help making a decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Dude
Where did you hear that load of crap. High octane will not hurt cars. If I ever read this again on this site I am going on a Jihad myself and out all who spew that bull*****!!!! BY GOD

Please whomever is putting out this stuff stop!!!! We dont need Tards in the community spreading lies and myths!!!!!
This is a very heated topic, and I will just state this. Using an octane higher than your car is tuned for could result in sending unburned fuel into the emissions system as the combustion happens too late in the process and not all of the fuel gets burned. This was not so much an issue in carburated engines back in the day, but is more an issue with EFI engines. If your car is tuned for 93, then you will be all set with the higher octane as your timing is setup for it. However, if you are tuned for 87 and use 93, the timing is off and it will basically be like running rich as the gas may not burn completely. This incomplete burning of fuel could result in fouling a sensor or two down stream.

Higher octane helps avoid detonation (pinging) if you have it with lower octane. If you have no pinging issues, using a higher octane will serve you no real purpose other than to spend more at the pumps, and possibly lose some gas mileage depending on your car.

I don't want to turn this into the great octane debate of 2005 as I am not armed with all of the data. I am just stating a summary of all of the reports I have read on the topic.
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Old 08-09-2005, 01:22 PM   #28
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Re: Need help making a decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurfin
This is a very heated topic, and I will just state this. Using an octane higher than your car is tuned for could result in sending unburned fuel into the emissions system as the combustion happens too late in the process and not all of the fuel gets burned. This was not so much an issue in carburated engines back in the day, but is more an issue with EFI engines. If your car is tuned for 93, then you will be all set with the higher octane as your timing is setup for it. However, if you are tuned for 87 and use 93, the timing is off and it will basically be like running rich as the gas may not burn completely. This incomplete burning of fuel could result in fouling a sensor or two down stream.

Higher octane helps avoid detonation (pinging) if you have it with lower octane. If you have no pinging issues, using a higher octane will serve you no real purpose other than to spend more at the pumps, and possibly lose some gas mileage depending on your car.

I don't want to turn this into the great octane debate of 2005 as I am not armed with all of the data. I am just stating a summary of all of the reports I have read on the topic.
That is not heated. I agree it does nothing for a stock engine to run 93 in it. It does not help or hurt!!!!
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Old 08-09-2005, 01:24 PM   #29
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Re: Need help making a decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Dude
That is not heated. I agree it does nothing for a stock engine to run 93 in it. It does not help or hurt!!!!
It has been very heated in some other forums in the past. Got way outta control real quick...that's why I said it is a heated topic. That, and the fact that you can find reports to support either argument about it helping, hurting, or doing nothing doesn't help matters at all.
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Old 08-09-2005, 05:27 PM   #30
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Re: Need help making a decision

not to piss anyone off but when i run 91 octane especially from a quality station, there's a noticeable difference in my cars performance. acceleration is smoother every time, and i know it's not just something in my head! of course i do have a tuner that requires 91...
as far as being a Tard and spreading rumors i wasn't trying to. I just know what i read, and aparently it's mis information according to you all. so cut me some frickin slack. i joined this forum to learn, not to be critized and scorned.
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Old 08-09-2005, 05:30 PM   #31
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Re: Need help making a decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by I_luv_HP&trq
not to piss anyone off but when i run 91 octane especially from a quality station, there's a noticeable difference in my cars performance. acceleration is smoother every time, and i know it's not just something in my head. of course i do have a tuner that requires 91, and since i can mess with the spark advance i can make sure all that fuel gets burned up.
as far as being a Tard and spreading rumors i wasn't trying to. I just know what i read, and aparently it's mis information according to you all. so cut me some frickin slack.
No slack for you....tard. j/k man.

This is just a widely debated topic. Since your tune is for 91, then when you run something less, it will definitely change how your car performs. If you run higher, like 93, you won't feel as much difference as you would if you were tuned for 87 and ran 93. Know what I mean Vern? But, since your tuner requires 91, that is what your car will perform best with. A stocker is tuned for 87, so it is thought it will run best on 87.
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Old 08-09-2005, 07:00 PM   #32
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Re: Need help making a decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by I_luv_HP&trq
not to piss anyone off but when i run 91 octane especially from a quality station, there's a noticeable difference in my cars performance. acceleration is smoother every time, and i know it's not just something in my head! of course i do have a tuner that requires 91...
as far as being a Tard and spreading rumors i wasn't trying to. I just know what i read, and aparently it's mis information according to you all. so cut me some frickin slack. i joined this forum to learn, not to be critized and scorned.
I was not calling you a tard HAHAHHAA I was referring to the people who create and spread this myth to people new to the automotive scene. So I was not criticizing you. If anyone on this forum is spreading this I will NAIL THEIR ***.

As for using 91 You might live in a area that is OCTANE CHALLANGED!!! HAHAHAHA California is one place that people have found that cheapo gas is to low and they bump up to 91. If you live in a reformulated gas state I am sorry for you.
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Old 08-09-2005, 07:16 PM   #33
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Re: Need help making a decision

the thing that sucks the most is that there's a chevron refinery located about 20 miles north from me and you would think that we would get quality gas a little cheaper since it doesn't have to be transported so far. it was $3.05 for premium last week.
i need a real job....
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Old 08-09-2005, 07:30 PM   #34
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Re: Need help making a decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by I_luv_HP&trq
the thing that sucks the most is that there's a chevron refinery located about 20 miles north from me and you would think that we would get quality gas a little cheaper since it doesn't have to be transported so far. it was $3.05 for premium last week.
i need a real job....
I have an exxon refinery even closer (like 10 miles at most)...but it means nothing when it comes to gas prices.
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Old 08-11-2005, 02:58 PM   #35
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Re: Need help making a decision

Sorry it took so long for me to get back to you. I have the stage 3 kit from supersix. Tom is awesome to talk to and helps me any time I call, even on weekends. He fielded tons of questions for me but in no way was my only source. I also have parts from Morana and that Tom is a great guy too. I didn't get anything from RPM, isn't that the guy who takes forever? I am probably wrong. There are other places too that can port and polish heads and intakes, grind cams, etc. So there are definitely other options as well. Just depends on what you want to do. If I had it to do again, I might look into who could have p&p my stuff more locally. I don't know, I'm happy though. Proven results, good customer service.

If you have any specific questions, just let me know.. and by the way. I also think I feel an improvement with higher octane fuel and also with stp fuel additive...
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