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Old 11-22-2005, 05:43 PM   #71
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

I had never really thought about the housing itself as being restrictive since it has the impeller, but I guess it can be. In which case, superchargers have that and they are belt driven.

My above description was very general and not meant to be an engineering tutorial, hence my usage of the "cow ****" description. I suppose I will have to give one next time that way I can enjoy puffing myself up also by giving one.
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Old 11-22-2005, 05:54 PM   #72
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

the stock internals should be ok with 11psi of boos from a supercharger but i'm not sure for a turbo. a turbo runs hotter but has no parasitic load from a pulley like a supercharger so it will make more hp at 11 psi than a supercharger would. i hope everything goes well for ya. i plan on going boosted in March-April from Justin's 11psi procharger kit. my friend has a 2001 v6 and is running a 11psi kit and has been romping on it for a about a year no and has not had one problem with it. his car has over 75,000 miles on it. he has 365 RWHP from a H/c/i swap and the supercharger. i'm just suprised his stock 5speed is still in 1 piece.
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Old 11-22-2005, 05:55 PM   #73
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

p.s: i hope your engine is as lucky as my friends. i'm sure it will be with Justin and Andy helping you out.
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Old 11-22-2005, 05:57 PM   #74
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

Thanks. I am kinda worried about my auto, but if it goes out I can always upgrade to a 5 speed, so it wont be too bad.
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Old 11-22-2005, 06:31 PM   #75
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

guys i like how the technical discussion is going, but lets try not to insult each other.
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Old 11-22-2005, 07:33 PM   #76
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkShadow
I had never really thought about the housing itself as being restrictive since it has the impeller, but I guess it can be. In which case, superchargers have that and they are belt driven.

My above description was very general and not meant to be an engineering tutorial, hence my usage of the "cow ****" description. I suppose I will have to give one next time that way I can enjoy puffing myself up also by giving one.
Well then give one instead of beating around the bush and allowing your "Turbo Gods" to come in here and do all your talking for you.

Respond to tbird and fast64 and show us you do know what your talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkShadow
I had never really thought about the housing itself as being restrictive since it has the impeller, but I guess it can be. In which case, superchargers have that and they are belt driven.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkShadow
Apparently you're not so don't post on turbos.
Sounds like you're the one that didn't think through your posts and not Fast64.
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Old 11-22-2005, 07:53 PM   #77
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

Owned by the Admin.

I know next to nothing in the turbo category and I will say this. The turbo is a restriction, no matter how you say it. Sure you may lose some power but I guess it's all about which makes power right back...

BTW DRUNK
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Old 11-22-2005, 08:45 PM   #78
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

Didnt think of the housing being a restriction? The housing is what the air flows through, to get to the impeller, and the housing is where most of the air backs up and "gets in line" to flow over the turbine.
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Old 11-22-2005, 09:36 PM   #79
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

EclipseGSTdude you are right psi is psi and its what kills the motor, I ment it in a bit of a different way. You see alot of people that have screwed up their motors when running a blower. They blame it on to much boost when at times its the horrid tune that done the deed. PSI can definatly kill a motor, alot dont get good tunes it all I ment.
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Old 11-22-2005, 10:45 PM   #80
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EclipseGSTdude
if i had access to a flowbench id love to test them, im almost certain they would flow within 50cfm of eachother at around 25psi, which is average boost levels ive been around. and as far as breaking welds at high psi, ive seen big name sheet metal intake manifolds(magnus) split in half before the ebay core did.



i think you have that a bit backwards. even the measly evo16g on my dsm didnt hit 20psi till around 3800rpm. and larger turbo's wouldnt see 15psi till 4k+, that 10 second one didnt hit full 30psi till around 5200rpm. and the only way id see a SC at 5psi at such a low rpm is if it was only running 5psi tops.

ok first off its not all about CFM its also about pressure drop across the core. so the cheaper Ebay cores can and do have more pressure drop across them. soo spend your money where you want. i am gonna just save alittle while longer and get a good core.

also i think you have it backwards. a centrifugal(vorturd,procharger) will make less boost from 2k-4k than any properly done turbo kit. they make more boost with RPM. soo at lets say 3k they make 4lbs at 6k they will make 9lbs. soo Andy has that part right for sure. now a turbo will not have the Instant boost that a positive blower(kenne bell,eaton,wipple) will.

oh yea every turbo kit i have everdone or worked on has max boost by 3400rpm. my little junky homemade turbo kit has full boost by 3200rpm. and thats ether 15psi,20psi or 28psi. thats the wonderfull thing about turbos. quick boost for great tq and then also pulling high hp up top.
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Old 11-22-2005, 11:47 PM   #81
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpectorV
EclipseGSTdude you are right psi is psi and its what kills the motor, I ment it in a bit of a different way. You see alot of people that have screwed up their motors when running a blower. They blame it on to much boost when at times its the horrid tune that done the deed. PSI can definatly kill a motor, alot dont get good tunes it all I ment.
PSI isnt what kills engines. I dont care what anyone says.

Parts are not rated by horsepower, PSI, rpms, or any of that. They are rated by tensile strength.

The reason people think PSI kills engines is because generally when you raise boost, you also increase the possibility of detonation. Detonation is not always audiable. And for anyone that knows about detonation, it causes extreme stress on the engine, trying to force the piston and rod in different directions than its meant to go, and wanting to push it back down while its on its up stroke. Thats what kills parts. Ive seen pistons chunked, rods snapped, holes in blocks, all because of detonation.

The reason people say its PSI is because more PSI means you need more fuel, and when people say "my a/f gauge reads its rich", theyre basically saying "my twinkly gauge that isnt worth **** makes me think its rich", and they think its safe. Then when they blow it up, they blame it on running more boost.

if i remember correctly, white95v6 ran 28psi on a stock 4.2L rotating assembly, and its still in one piece as far as i know.

Thats why i always say, get your car tuned properly, using a wideband 02 sensor, everyone says the 5.0 breaks at 550hp, yet there are guys running around with 680rwhp on a stock block because its tuned properly, and a very good setup.
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Old 11-22-2005, 11:50 PM   #82
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

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Originally Posted by Tbird232ci
if i remember correctly, white95v6 ran 28psi on a stock 4.2L rotating assembly, and its still in one piece as far as i know.

i got good rods and pistons. stock 4.2L crank and a 95 block with girdle.
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Old 11-23-2005, 02:27 AM   #83
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

im with beaner.. aha good luck man keep us updated... might inspire couple of us..:patriot:
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Old 11-23-2005, 09:19 AM   #84
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
Well then give one instead of beating around the bush and allowing your "Turbo Gods" to come in here and do all your talking for you.
Respond to tbird and fast64 and show us you do know what your talking about.
Sounds like you're the one that didn't think through your posts and not Fast64.
Well than what do you want me to talk about? Sorry if I don't like to waste my time trying to convince people who think they already know how everything works instead being open to something that might *gasps* be in disagreement to what they've always thought. I'm no master debater so I don't try to be. I'll also be the first to admit I don't know everything and learn new things from this and other forums everyday. But don't be fooled, I'm doing my research before I go and try to do something that could ruin the only car I own.
Here's a nice little nut shell

The reason I had never really thought about the turbine as being restrictive is because of the blades helping to draw the exhaust through by creating a vortex and then a suction of sorts through the turbo housing. Sure if it was just the housing it would be restrictive, but then that would defeat the purpose of the whole thing. That's why I never really considered it.

Of course psi can kill motors, if you put a 50 pounds of boost on something completely stock, yeah your going to end up with a couple rods through your hood and back down through your roof, and a few nice gouges in the pavement where a couple went through the block. BUT, if you use common sense, and don't run stupid amounts of boost and this still happens, then it's because of a bad tune. Proabably, in a nut shell, the whole situatuion is this:

No common sense + too much boost = blown engine.
Common sense + safe amount of boost + bad tune = blown engine.
Common sense + safe amount of boost + good tune = perfectly fine engine for more than 100,000 miles most likely.

For the record, I have never asked my "Turbo Gods" to come in anywhere. I don't think Andy even knows what my forum name is, just my real name and e-mail address. I don't pull the "My big brother is going to come in here and beat you up!" BS.

I do, however feel the need to apologize to fast64, I should not have said that.

Now, given the choice of who to listen to on turbo matters, those who actually work on turbo charging Mustangs for a living, or those that like to bs around on forums and like to puff themselves up by being able to say they posted "technical information" in the poweradders section even though it was something out of their ***...?
Hmmm...let's see a show of hands as to how many people have actually turbocharged a Mustang that have been posting technical info in this thread. Looks like it's Andy, White95v6, and tbird having tb'd a tbird (which is probably very similar). Yeah I think I'm going to listen to what they have to say.
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Old 11-23-2005, 09:46 AM   #85
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

thanks man! i thik everybody in this thread needs to take a step back and chill out, lol.
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Old 11-23-2005, 11:17 AM   #86
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

DarkShadow, i do have a bit more respect for you after posting that up

As for your vortex, thats what you would think, but it doesnt work like that. When the turbo is creating boost, its under a constant load, thats basically what boost is, its air that your turbo is FORCING into the engine. Not only is the housing a restriction, but the impeller is too, because once it creates boost, there is a large amount of resistance placed on the shaft (how much resistance, i couldnt tell ya), and the exhaust gasses have to overcome that force, thats what creates boost, not the turbo freewheeling.

There is a saying "there is no free lunch", basically saying, youll always have to pay for it one way or another. A supercharger places large amounts of stress on the crankshaft. A turbo places a large amount of heat, and piping, and a bit of restriction on an engine, nitrous is pricey over time. There is no perfect power adding device, everything has a downfall, wether we like to believe it or not.
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Old 11-23-2005, 01:08 PM   #87
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

^ unless we all went to my hybrid theory where you get all the extra heat energy from your breaks for free. sure you'll need a few more batteries and the electronics but that's cheaper then any other power adder. some of those DC motors put out the equivalent of 80 HP. Imagine a 4.2L NA V6 putting down 270rwhp and then with the DC motor kicking in, putting down 350 rwhp and a crap load of torque. electric motors have a ton of torque. the prius electric motor puts down 295 lb-ft of torque between 0-1200 RPM's.
but that's another argument topic for another day.

anyways glad were working things out.
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Old 11-23-2005, 09:56 PM   #88
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbird232ci
As for your vortex, thats what you would think, but it doesnt work like that. When the turbo is creating boost, its under a constant load, thats basically what boost is, its air that your turbo is FORCING into the engine. Not only is the housing a restriction, but the impeller is too, because once it creates boost, there is a large amount of resistance placed on the shaft (how much resistance, i couldnt tell ya), and the exhaust gasses have to overcome that force, thats what creates boost, not the turbo freewheeling.
Interesting.
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Old 11-24-2005, 10:35 PM   #89
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkShadow
Well than what do you want me to talk about? Sorry if I don't like to waste my time trying to convince people who think they already know how everything works instead being open to something that might *gasps* be in disagreement to what they've always thought. I'm no master debater so I don't try to be. I'll also be the first to admit I don't know everything and learn new things from this and other forums everyday. But don't be fooled, I'm doing my research before I go and try to do something that could ruin the only car I own.
Here's a nice little nut shell

The reason I had never really thought about the turbine as being restrictive is because of the blades helping to draw the exhaust through by creating a vortex and then a suction of sorts through the turbo housing. Sure if it was just the housing it would be restrictive, but then that would defeat the purpose of the whole thing. That's why I never really considered it.

Of course psi can kill motors, if you put a 50 pounds of boost on something completely stock, yeah your going to end up with a couple rods through your hood and back down through your roof, and a few nice gouges in the pavement where a couple went through the block. BUT, if you use common sense, and don't run stupid amounts of boost and this still happens, then it's because of a bad tune. Proabably, in a nut shell, the whole situatuion is this:

No common sense + too much boost = blown engine.
Common sense + safe amount of boost + bad tune = blown engine.
Common sense + safe amount of boost + good tune = perfectly fine engine for more than 100,000 miles most likely.

For the record, I have never asked my "Turbo Gods" to come in anywhere. I don't think Andy even knows what my forum name is, just my real name and e-mail address. I don't pull the "My big brother is going to come in here and beat you up!" BS.

I do, however feel the need to apologize to fast64, I should not have said that.

Now, given the choice of who to listen to on turbo matters, those who actually work on turbo charging Mustangs for a living, or those that like to bs around on forums and like to puff themselves up by being able to say they posted "technical information" in the poweradders section even though it was something out of their ***...?
Hmmm...let's see a show of hands as to how many people have actually turbocharged a Mustang that have been posting technical info in this thread. Looks like it's Andy, White95v6, and tbird having tb'd a tbird (which is probably very similar). Yeah I think I'm going to listen to what they have to say.
Thank you
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Old 11-25-2005, 03:47 AM   #90
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpectorV
EclipseGSTdude you are right psi is psi and its what kills the motor, I ment it in a bit of a different way. You see alot of people that have screwed up their motors when running a blower. They blame it on to much boost when at times its the horrid tune that done the deed. PSI can definatly kill a motor, alot dont get good tunes it all I ment.
mostly yes.

but if youre smart and start off low boost and rich, and work your way up boost wise and keep the fuel coming and keep a eye on timing. when you start to max out injectors or start seeing timing pulled, youre reaching the end of your setup and basically you just found your edge, though finding the perfect edge takes time. though with a mustang i dont know if theres tuning software/hardware that allows you to see injector duty cycles to know if youre at the end of your fuel setup.

but ill stick with my psi kills motors. tbird is right, tensile strength is what the pistons are rated at, and when you try to shove 20psi into a cylinder whos tensile strength isnt strong enough to compress that much air, youre going to know about it. thats why i say psi kills motors, and why i say having a bigger flowing turbo running lower psi and making the same amount of power is always the best route. if i ever get another dsm, im going straight to a 60trim or above, maybe a gt series turbo if theyre cheap enough. i spent enough time with piddly little turbo's.
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Old 11-26-2005, 12:54 AM   #91
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EclipseGSTdude
if i ever get another dsm, im going straight to a 60trim or above, maybe a gt series turbo if theyre cheap enough. i spent enough time with piddly little turbo's.
Garretts turbos are dropping in price pretty quick, i think the flood of cheaper turbos on ebay is hurting them a bit.
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Old 11-27-2005, 01:23 AM   #92
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

Why is it that whenever someone works with a dsm they think they know everything about cars and turbos. I have a friend thats the same way as you. He's a complete idiot but thinks he knows everything since he has a dsm and is affilerated with the dsm crowd.

Try building over 20 turbo kits like i have then you might have something intelligent to say. Your trying to challenge the turbo master here well let me show you a thing or two.

Here is your big mistake in your statements

Turbo flows more air at 10 psi then most sc ever will.
Answer": Wrong
Reason: flow is measured by cfm or lbs/min. You have small turbos that can have a max flow rating of 30 lbs/min and u got small superchargers that can flow 30 lbs/min max. You got big turbos that can flow 65 lbs/min max and big superchargers that can flow 65 lbs/min max.


The only time when turbos flow more then superchargers tend to be in the low to mid rpm range. And thats b/c turbos can reach peak boost much quicker then a supercharger can b/c the turbo is not rpm dependant. Turbos and superchargers at peak psi 10 each will make the same crank hp

Okay now to crush your intercooler talk

the chiepie ebay china core tend to have slighty more pressure drop then a name brand garrett, precision, spearco core. Ya its nice they can flow lots of cfm but also minimizing pressure drop is what keeps the intake charge cooler.

Also you can get a garrett intercooler thats rated at 750 hp for $440 on ebay. So ya they are not $1000

I like it when dsm people try to challenge me ( a turbo kit builder). You guys give me so much entertainment on your much well known dsm knowledge


Quote:
Originally Posted by EclipseGSTdude
spend a few years around the dsm crowd, itll teach you the ins and outs of turbo tech really fast. ive worked with 10 second cars(awd 1g, 60trim, dsmlink tuned, meth injection)

psi IS psi, but a turbo flows a whole lot more air at 10psi than most sc ever will, well, depending on turbo. and his motor isnt forged.

and yeah, the cheapie cores are a little behind on quality, but id rather make myself a fmic kit for around 300 bucks custom made for my car, rather than some name brand kit for ~1000 bucks, and spend the rest of the money on other upgrades that will make more of a difference. besides, being in the dsm crowd and making fmic kits for buddies, and comparing a spearco core vs a ebay china one, i can tell you, they are very distinct. if i had access to a flowbench id love to test them, im almost certain they would flow within 50cfm of eachother at around 25psi, which is average boost levels ive been around. and as far as breaking welds at high psi, ive seen big name sheet metal intake manifolds(magnus) split in half before the ebay core did.



i think you have that a bit backwards. even the measly evo16g on my dsm didnt hit 20psi till around 3800rpm. and larger turbo's wouldnt see 15psi till 4k+, that 10 second one didnt hit full 30psi till around 5200rpm. and the only way id see a SC at 5psi at such a low rpm is if it was only running 5psi tops.
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Old 11-27-2005, 01:31 AM   #93
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fast64
I am no turbo expert, and I am assuming by "no engine drag" you mean that turbos dont rob any horsepower from the engine. You have to be kidding me if you really believe that. You can not tell me that pushing exhaust gases through a turbine that has to spin an impeler does not draw any power. period.
Don't take me to litteraly. When i refer to no engine drag i was mostly refering to parastic belt driven drag. Turbo doesn't have the belt driven drag.

Ya turbo do cause back pressure at higher rpms b/c of the turbine housing and turbine wheel and will cost ya about 10-15 rwhp for a mid to large size turbo. Nothing to really worry about like you would if you had a supercharger hogging 50 hp.

c'mon now i built over 20 turbo kits and you think i wouldn't know something so primitive as this.
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Old 11-28-2005, 10:32 AM   #94
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TuxMask-Andy
c'mon now i built over 20 turbo kits and you think i wouldn't know something so primitive as this.
You will probably take this the wrong way, but you also have to remember, just because youve build many turbo kits doesnt mean you know exactly what youre doing. I have a few turbo 2.3L friends of mine, they know their stuff, and been into these cars for 10-11 years, but im seeing more and more where they think they know more about something, and they have no clue.

I see that you know what youre talking about, youve already proven that, but not everyone who builds turbo kits, engines, and cars in general know a lot about what theyre doing. At the age of 15, i put together a small block chevy, by no means am i an engine builder.

I mean hell, there is a guy i know, 26 years working on fords, been in the ford shops for 26 years, and he couldnt tell me a single thing about my car other than changing the TFI and PIP in the car.
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Old 11-30-2005, 10:41 PM   #95
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TuxMask-Andy
Why is it that whenever someone works with a dsm they think they know everything about cars and turbos. I have a friend thats the same way as you. He's a complete idiot but thinks he knows everything since he has a dsm and is affilerated with the dsm crowd.

Try building over 20 turbo kits like i have then you might have something intelligent to say. Your trying to challenge the turbo master here well let me show you a thing or two.

Here is your big mistake in your statements

Turbo flows more air at 10 psi then most sc ever will.
Answer": Wrong
Reason: flow is measured by cfm or lbs/min. You have small turbos that can have a max flow rating of 30 lbs/min and u got small superchargers that can flow 30 lbs/min max. You got big turbos that can flow 65 lbs/min max and big superchargers that can flow 65 lbs/min max.


The only time when turbos flow more then superchargers tend to be in the low to mid rpm range. And thats b/c turbos can reach peak boost much quicker then a supercharger can b/c the turbo is not rpm dependant. Turbos and superchargers at peak psi 10 each will make the same crank hp

Okay now to crush your intercooler talk

the chiepie ebay china core tend to have slighty more pressure drop then a name brand garrett, precision, spearco core. Ya its nice they can flow lots of cfm but also minimizing pressure drop is what keeps the intake charge cooler.

Also you can get a garrett intercooler thats rated at 750 hp for $440 on ebay. So ya they are not $1000

I like it when dsm people try to challenge me ( a turbo kit builder). You guys give me so much entertainment on your much well known dsm knowledge
oh wow. a turbo kit builder. you can buy a turbo, some piping, a header or two, a blow off valve and call it a turbo kit?. that makes you intellegent? i think the more intellegent is buying a car WITH the turbo already on it, a car with a motor already ready for boost, so you dont need gay little turbo kits. turbo kits are for honduh's and video games(like Need for Speed underground and Gran Turismo)

and you do know a higher pressure drop is a direct indication of better cooling, ive seen various flow charts, inlet/outlet temp, and pressure drop tests on quite a few IC's. the ones with the most drop had the coolest outlet temps, bot a downside of that is they flow less and become a restriction. or you could have a fmic that flows more air, but cools less, its all in what you want out of one. i just did a search for it but i couldnt find the test, but they did quite a number of IC's, from Spearco's to Greddy's, Supra SMIC's to DSM SMIC's, all the way to the "china core", OBX and Johnny Racecar FMIC's. while the spearco and greddy performed like they should for 1000 bucks a "kit", the cheapie cores werent far behind, and the conclusion that was, unless you were going for 600+hp and 30+psi, or just want name brand for that special feeling you get when you tell people you spent 1000 bucks on a kit you could fabbed for 300, the cheaper cores and custom piping were right for you. sorry to crush your interfooler talk. besides, i wouldnt rate intercoolers based on hp alone, especially when i know of guys running supra sidemounts well past the 500hp range, just cause they live in cali and are afraid of a FMIC giving them away to the local authorities.

turbo's will flow more in the top end. period. i dont know where youre getting your info from, but the general census is SC for bottom-mid power, turbo for mid-top end. its been that way for years. sc's lose their efficiency up top, i guess you missed that announcement. unless it some huge high priced SC, but even then their boost comes on almost instantly, even sc's like vortech are next to insta boost. turbo's, especially 50 trims and above, will shine up top, but lack down low under their boost response spectrum.

and a turbo vs sc at the same PSI will NOT make the same power, there would be way too many variables to even attempt to test out that theory. id imagine that if you took a SC and Turbo, both flowing the same and at the same psi, in the same car with same conditions, the SC will reach its peak power faster, but the Turbo car will reach its peak later on. and peaking output in later rpms will net higher gains, in any application.

and show me a SC that flows 65lbs/min @8k rpm.
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Old 12-01-2005, 12:52 AM   #96
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

In a last ditch effort to save this thread please remember to not result to name "flaming" and all that other internet jazz we all have come to expect when threads end up going this route.

kthxbye
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Old 12-01-2005, 12:58 AM   #97
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

a centrifugal sc builds boost around 3k and i just looked up roots blowers and came across an article claiming they make full boost around 2k but it didn't say what size it was. only thing is, the excessive heat it causes makes the hp drop. so it's possible to have quick boost sc but not efficient power without the IC......
It just depends on what size turbo or sc you have running. If you look at some of the dyno graphs you can see that a small 57mm will spool at 2k and full boost by 2.5. and then theres the big *** thumper which will obviously take more time to spool and pulls at the top end better.

Hell i know guys that go the sc route because they only want top end power till redline. they have a big sc that takes a long time to spin off the belt which is why they don't peak until later on in the rpm range.

point i'm trying to make is that you can't classify either power adder only for low end or high RPM's. or say the sc will peak faster.....again all depends on the size of sc.... Every car is gonna be different and be used for a different purpose, so results will vary.

p.s. i think it's more impressive to make a turbo kit for a NA car without any blueprints or instructions on your own. whats so intelligent about handing over cash to a dealership and getting a turbo car already built for you? all the work and tuning has already been done....:thumbs2:
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Old 12-01-2005, 01:08 AM   #98
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
In a last ditch effort to save this thread please remember to not result to name "flaming" and all that other internet jazz we all have come to expect when threads end up going this route.

kthxbye

oops just read this after i posted. so everyone knows i'm not trying to make anyone sound wrong or want to argue. just wanted to point out some stuff so hopefully everyone can understand eachother.
i'm done.
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Old 12-02-2005, 03:31 PM   #99
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I_luv_HP&trq
p.s. i think it's more impressive to make a turbo kit for a NA car without any blueprints or instructions on your own. whats so intelligent about handing over cash to a dealership and getting a turbo car already built for you? all the work and tuning has already been done....:thumbs2:
I agree. All that's left is to figure out how it works and what to do to make it better, rather than trying to play engineer and figure out how your going to 'charge something that's never been charged before.

And this all depends on what size poweradder and what vehicle it's being put on as far when/what will reach which/when peak power.
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Old 12-05-2005, 03:16 AM   #100
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EclipseGSTdude
oh wow. a turbo kit builder. you can buy a turbo, some piping, a header or two, a blow off valve and call it a turbo kit?. that makes you intellegent? i think the more intellegent is buying a car WITH the turbo already on it, a car with a motor already ready for boost, so you dont need gay little turbo kits. turbo kits are for honduh's and video games(like Need for Speed underground and Gran Turismo)

and you do know a higher pressure drop is a direct indication of better cooling, ive seen various flow charts, inlet/outlet temp, and pressure drop tests on quite a few IC's. the ones with the most drop had the coolest outlet temps, bot a downside of that is they flow less and become a restriction. or you could have a fmic that flows more air, but cools less, its all in what you want out of one. i just did a search for it but i couldnt find the test, but they did quite a number of IC's, from Spearco's to Greddy's, Supra SMIC's to DSM SMIC's, all the way to the "china core", OBX and Johnny Racecar FMIC's. while the spearco and greddy performed like they should for 1000 bucks a "kit", the cheapie cores werent far behind, and the conclusion that was, unless you were going for 600+hp and 30+psi, or just want name brand for that special feeling you get when you tell people you spent 1000 bucks on a kit you could fabbed for 300, the cheaper cores and custom piping were right for you. sorry to crush your interfooler talk. besides, i wouldnt rate intercoolers based on hp alone, especially when i know of guys running supra sidemounts well past the 500hp range, just cause they live in cali and are afraid of a FMIC giving them away to the local authorities.

turbo's will flow more in the top end. period. i dont know where youre getting your info from, but the general census is SC for bottom-mid power, turbo for mid-top end. its been that way for years. sc's lose their efficiency up top, i guess you missed that announcement. unless it some huge high priced SC, but even then their boost comes on almost instantly, even sc's like vortech are next to insta boost. turbo's, especially 50 trims and above, will shine up top, but lack down low under their boost response spectrum.

and a turbo vs sc at the same PSI will NOT make the same power, there would be way too many variables to even attempt to test out that theory. id imagine that if you took a SC and Turbo, both flowing the same and at the same psi, in the same car with same conditions, the SC will reach its peak power faster, but the Turbo car will reach its peak later on. and peaking output in later rpms will net higher gains, in any application.

and show me a SC that flows 65lbs/min @8k rpm.
You force me to break out hard data facts

Fact #1 Here is a v2 vortech supercharger thats standard on most of vortech kits that can flow 65 lbs/min. So that proves you wrong that superchargers can't flow as much as turbochargers. Im not saying a supercharger will make more hp then a turbo thats rated at 65lbs/min. All im stating is that the supercharger can flow this much air but wont' make as much power as a turbo b/c of the simple fact that superchargers hog hp b/c its belt driven.


fact #2 Lets see which is harder? Buying a car that already has a turbo? Or building a turbo kit by cutting, welding, fabricating and engineering things out? I won't even answer this one I guess Im just some kid that likes to play video games. BTW every oem turbo ends up being way to small for street use and ends up needing to be upgraded and modified and even custom modifications. At least with an aftermarket turbo kit like the onces I build you get the right size piping, right turbo, etc from the very beginning

Fact #3 Here is an ebay link for a precision garrett bar/plate intercooler for $360 that can support 600 hp.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Preci...QQcmdZViewItem
So that concludes my point that spearco, precision garrett cores are not $1000 like you keep on insisting they are

Fact #4. Your statement of turbos give more top end, superchargers more low end. Just way overly to broad of a statement. Stock oem turbos suck on top end b/c they are 2 small and will not flow more then a S trim supercharger. Each turbo has its own characterisitics. Small turbos give good low end power, big turbos give top end power. Even superchargers have their own speical characterisitcs. Root blowers build boost earlier then centrigugal. Centrigufal more efficient at higher rpms then a root. Also there is different compressor wheels for superchargers like A trim small, S trim mid, and T trim big.

Your ego will never accept defeat or ownage and i don't expect you to. I just hope others don't get caught onto your miss conceptions and overly to broad of a statement. Im not trying to start a war with you and just trying to straighten out some facts with actual data to prove my statements
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Old 12-05-2005, 02:01 PM   #101
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

Any comments not pertaining to the topic that add no value to this thread will be removed. Same goes for any other topics in the Tech Areas
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Old 12-12-2005, 11:50 PM   #102
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

Yo man whats the next step on this turbo project?
I'm ready to see some #'s damnit. lol.
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Old 12-14-2005, 08:44 PM   #103
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

Just got my fuel pump in from Justin (thank you Justin) and Andy got caught up enough to take my order, so it may be until the end of February now, but it'll get done.
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Old 12-14-2005, 10:38 PM   #104
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

lol update that sig man.
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Old 12-15-2005, 09:54 PM   #105
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Re: .:l DarkShadow's Official Turbo Update Thread l:.

Woops.
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