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Old 08-11-2006, 10:56 AM   #1
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Help DarkShadow find the miss...*winner gets E-cookie!*

Think of it as a game:

Ok, this is what it does. It misses a lot in Park and Neutral. However, at idle in Drive, it misses considerably less, like maybe 2-3 times a minute. Whereas in P and N, it will miss about once a second. I have noticed that having the AC on seems to limit the number of misses...? Also, on deceleration, it seems to lug/lurch occasionally. But I don't seem to hear/feel a miss on high rpm's, but some have said at that time it misses so often that it can blend in. But I have had a problem with missing before when it was plugs and at high rpm's I knew it was still missing so I think that's BS.

I have swapped plugs now a total of 4 times in the last month (even with a couple different brands) to no avail. I have used a ohmeter on the wires (yes, they are on ALL the way) to check for continuity, which they all have.

It is not bad gas as I have gone through probably 3-4 tanks with it missing like this. I am unable to isolate what cylinder is missing (if it is just one) by pulling wires as they all made it worse whenver a wire was detached.

I have taken it to Ford and the "driveablilty" guy who is pretty familiar with FI cars (owns a Cobra and has done a few SC installs) said it was because my idle was too rich (-20%). My old tune was very rich but it never missed, but I figured what the heck. So I put in a 10% and a 20% leaner idle tune and took it back because it was still missing. The Ford guy said my idle with the 20% leaner tune was literally perfect now. He said the only thing he can think of is that maybe my injectors are not flowing the same amount. But would this not be a problem at high rpm's also? Maybe even worse? But he did say he was certain it's not an ignition missfire for what that's worth. And he never said anything about it being O2's, but it's a possibility. How would I know for sure if they are bad other than putting in new ones?
And there is no one in the area that flow tests injectors.

So Ford is basically stumped or least this dealership. I don't have a loss of power up top at all so I don't think it's a compression problem or a blown gasket since I have no leaks of any kind at all.

One thing someone I work with ahs suggested, is that I might have a bad/sticking valve. He said that is why the problem is worse when not a lot of load is on the engine: the valve is sticking closed. But then when you accelerate, it pushes the valve open "fixing" the probelm for the moment.

So what do you guys think? I'm at a loss. All I know is it was NOT MISSING AT ALL, EVER with the old tune. But when I got it back from a different tuner just a few weeks ago, it's been missing ever since.....

Just throw everything out there that can cause a vehicle to miss and I will see if I have tried that already or see if it can be ruled out.

Winner gets a cookie!!
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Old 08-11-2006, 11:07 AM   #2
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Re: Help DarkShadow find the miss...*winner gets E-cookie!*

Cool...I was close to what a real tech said on one of my best guesses from the other thread. I feel so smart now.

2.) Fuel is not being delivered in a consitent manner cause the A/F to bounce all over the place...
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Old 08-11-2006, 11:09 AM   #3
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Re: Help DarkShadow find the miss...*winner gets E-cookie!*

Is the insulation on the plug wires good? If they've cracked or something they can arc off an exhaust manifold or something. Coil(s) good?
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Old 08-11-2006, 11:15 AM   #4
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Re: Help DarkShadow find the miss...*winner gets E-cookie!*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurfin View Post
Cool...I was close to what a real tech said on one of my best guesses from the other thread. I feel so smart now.

2.) Fuel is not being delivered in a consitent manner cause the A/F to bounce all over the place...
Ok, so how can I determine this because no one in the area flow test injectors and I would ahte to spend $300 on flow matched injectors and still have it miss. The only problem I have with this idea is on the old tune, it NEVER missed. Yet as soon as I fianlly get it back from this other place, it misses. If it was unmatched injectors, why would they caus an issue now.

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Is the insulation on the plug wires good? If they've cracked or something they can arc off an exhaust manifold or something. Coil(s) good?
Yeah, the insulation looks to be in good shape. The wires themselves have only been on it maybe 500 miles now.

As for the coil, I have no idea. We can test them at work, but it's a BS test. It basically makes sure there is continuity, but the coil could still be bad anyway. Any way of testing this besides getting a new one and sticking it on?
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Old 08-11-2006, 11:23 AM   #5
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Re: Help DarkShadow find the miss...*winner gets E-cookie!*

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Any way of testing this besides getting a new one and sticking it on?
I do all my work out of my poorly stocked garage, or my parents' garage (much better stocked, but no complicated test equipment). Getting a new one and sticking it on is how I test everything.
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Old 08-11-2006, 11:28 AM   #6
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Re: Help DarkShadow find the miss...*winner gets E-cookie!*

To keep everything in here now...here is my reply from the other thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkShadow View Post
1) is a possibilty. How would I know for sure short of getting new ones?
I don't think you can know for sure without changing out the injectors. However, maybe your fuel pumps are wearing out, or maybe there is some restriction in the fuel path. You could see if you are having fuel pump issuse by datalogging the duty cycle to see how hard they are being pushed. Your old tune might have been within spec for it so they didn't have issues and your new tune might have pushed them over the edge. Or, your old tune could have been too strenuous for them and wore them out and now they are on the way out. Either way sounds like a possibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkShadow View Post
2) Yeah the Ford guy said that's all he can think of but there are probably a dozen or more things that can cause a miss and he only address a few so IDK...I have a wideband and have done a few logs and of course the A/F spikes all over the place, but I don't know if that is BECAUSE of the miss or if it's CAUSING the miss....:dunno:
I would guess that if the A/F bounces around while driving, there is definitely a fuel delivery issue which could be exacerbated at idle due to lack of being pushed where when you have the AC on it puts more strain on the engine so the issue is covered a little more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkShadow View Post
3) Pretty sure the MAF has not pegged as the old tune was fine as far as that goes. Where would a potential leak occurr do you think?
I am not sure where it could be coming from. I was just pulling ideas out of the air. I am a back yard mechanic in training just stating what sounded like a possiblity to me. I did however send these two threads to the guy I deal with here locally, so once he replies I will post his thoughts here as well if he has any.
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Old 08-11-2006, 11:31 AM   #7
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Re: Help DarkShadow find the miss...*winner gets E-cookie!*

Here is the response for the local guy here based on what he read in these threads:

Quote:
We need to check the fuel pump duty cycle & fuel press. drop across the
injectors...Also check for any intake leaks/replace the plugs and O2 sensors
and start over on the tune if its wrong I would be able to pick it up on my
dyno....Usually a pegged O2 sensor can be a couple things...A bad Air Mass
sensor/ Bad O2 sensor/ Intake leaks... I' m willing to bet it has an intake
leak causing the whole problem...I've fixed alot of Mustangs with the same
codes by fixing intake(s) leaks....Maybe the last week in August or early
September I can schedule him in...
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Old 08-11-2006, 12:13 PM   #8
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Re: Help DarkShadow find the miss...*winner gets E-cookie!*

fuel pump?
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Old 08-11-2006, 01:07 PM   #9
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Re: Help DarkShadow find the miss...*winner gets E-cookie!*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurfin View Post
Here is the response for the local guy here based on what he read in these threads:
Hmm. What do you think? (I have a single pump by the way) I don't know that I would be able to drive down there with classes and work and more importantly funds.

So I should try a datalog of the fuel pump duty cycle? And that wil tell me if I have a bad pump? What about injectors?

Does he ahve any ideas on the location of an intake leak? I might know of one place....let me go out and tighten it up and we will see, but I'm pretty sure it's nice and snug....
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Old 08-11-2006, 01:11 PM   #10
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Re: Help DarkShadow find the miss...*winner gets E-cookie!*

I might be wrong, but I'm thinking the situation would be worse at higher rpm's if it's a vac leak or weak pump.....loss of power, stumbling, audible hiss...
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Old 08-11-2006, 01:13 PM   #11
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Re: Help DarkShadow find the miss...*winner gets E-cookie!*

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkShadow View Post
Hmm. What do you think? (I have a single pump by the way) I don't know that I would be able to drive down there with classes and work and more importantly funds.

So I should try a datalog of the fuel pump duty cycle? And that wil tell me if I have a bad pump? What about injectors?

Does he ahve any ideas on the location of an intake leak? I might know of one place....let me go out and tighten it up and we will see, but I'm pretty sure it's nice and snug....
It could tell you if you are maxing out your pump. I am going to swing by his shop today and see if he can think of anywhere it might be leaking. Off the top of my head, I am not sure, especially without seeing pics of all the plumbing.
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Old 08-11-2006, 01:18 PM   #12
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Re: Help DarkShadow find the miss...*winner gets E-cookie!*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurfin View Post
It could tell you if you are maxing out your pump. I am going to swing by his shop today and see if he can think of anywhere it might be leaking. Off the top of my head, I am not sure, especially without seeing pics of all the plumbing.
It would have to be a location AFTER the MAF right?
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Old 08-12-2006, 01:50 AM   #13
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Re: Help DarkShadow find the miss...*winner gets E-cookie!*

Checked the potential vac leak spot....no leak.
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Old 08-12-2006, 11:21 AM   #14
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Re: Help DarkShadow find the miss...*winner gets E-cookie!*

Just for ****s and giggles, I know on the 03/04 cobras the computer can get confused periodically when the MAF sensor isn't in the 90* position right up on top. It would be funny if this would fix your problem...but it is free and simple to check, so why not right?

Other than that, I am at a loss.
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Old 08-12-2006, 11:40 AM   #15
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Re: Help DarkShadow find the miss...*winner gets E-cookie!*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurfin View Post
Just for ****s and giggles, I know on the 03/04 cobras the computer can get confused periodically when the MAF sensor isn't in the 90* position right up on top. It would be funny if this would fix your problem...but it is free and simple to check, so why not right?

Other than that, I am at a loss.
foxes are the same way.. the 2-3 o clock position has been best for mine..
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Old 08-13-2006, 10:41 PM   #16
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Re: Help DarkShadow find the miss...*winner gets E-cookie!*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurfin View Post
Just for ****s and giggles, I know on the 03/04 cobras the computer can get confused periodically when the MAF sensor isn't in the 90* position right up on top. It would be funny if this would fix your problem...but it is free and simple to check, so why not right?

Other than that, I am at a loss.
Hmm. When I took it to be tuned before, they had it at different angle than it is at now....it would be retarded, but I will definately try it when I get back from the beach. It would be quick and easy...

I would really like to give out a cookie...
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Old 08-14-2006, 08:39 AM   #17
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Re: Help DarkShadow find the miss...*winner gets E-cookie!*

its best to check the easy/cheap things first though no matter how easy they may seem... you never know.
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