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Old 01-20-2004, 07:40 PM   #36
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umm....ok

The tranny lines go into the radiator because theres already a "cooler" in there. It doesnt do much of anything.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the CORRECT way to set-up a tranny cooler is after the radiator, no? I dont know for sure as I dont have one.

So basically, your tranyn fluid enters the radiator, cools it down very little, goes into the cooler and cools it down a lot. Then goes back into the tranny, super cold.

Your contradicting yourself. You say a tranny cooler wont hurt a tranny, but yet a cooler's job is to cool down the fluid. A radiator doesn't warm up fluid, its job is to cool it down, I dont know where you got that it would warm the fluid back up from.
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Old 01-20-2004, 07:47 PM   #37
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He might have meant that given the cold outside temperature, the cold tranny fluid would probably actually warm up from the heat of the water in the radiator. In other words, the fluid would always reach a minimum temperature no matter how cold it is outside because of the heat of the engine.

Since the engine would heat up quicker than the tranny because of combustion, the radiator would heat the fluid quicker than the tranny would itself.

Of course, I might be wrong and he may have been talking about something else entirely...
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Old 01-20-2004, 07:48 PM   #38
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The tranny cooler barely "cools" down anything. The reason it's cooler is because the added fluid capacity. That's why you can mount the thing sideways, backwards, and upside down and still get 60-70% efficiency out of it.

And a radiator will warm up fluid if it is too cold (i.e: colder than the coolant). Because it transfers the heat load from the coolant to your fluid. It will cool the fluid if the fluid temperature > coolant temperature. That's why it works exactly the same in both kinds of weather. As long as your tranny fluid doesn't freeze or boil, you are fine.
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Old 01-20-2004, 07:49 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Kicker
He might have meant that given the cold outside temperature, the cold tranny fluid would probably actually warm up from the heat of the water in the radiator. In other words, the fluid would always reach a minimum temperature no matter how cold it is outside because of the heat of the engine.

Since the engine would heat up quicker than the tranny because of combustion, the radiator would heat the fluid quicker than the tranny would itself.
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Old 01-20-2004, 08:01 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laser02
The tranny cooler barely "cools" down anything. The reason it's cooler is because the added fluid capacity. That's why you can mount the thing sideways, backwards, and upside down and still get 60-70% efficiency out of it.

And a radiator will warm up fluid if it is too cold (i.e: colder than the coolant). Because it transfers the heat load from the coolant to your fluid. It will cool the fluid if the fluid temperature > coolant temperature. That's why it works exactly the same in both kinds of weather. As long as your tranny fluid doesn't freeze or boil, you are fine.
how much fluid is added? Its not comparable to 20ft. Id bet a quart at most.

The added fluid has nothign to do with it. Once fluid is hot its hot, doesnt matter how much there is.

If your saying a tranny cooler doesnt cool anything, then why dont you drive without your radiator?


The fact is, a cooler COOLS, thats its purpose. And when your driving in cold weather like I do, it prevents the tranny fluid form warming up properly, if at all and can thus take forever and/or cause problems in the tranny.

You can argue all you want but thats the facts.
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Old 01-20-2004, 08:21 PM   #41
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Okay. Ignore the fact that the fluid in the radiator is heat exchanged with the coolant.

You keep on believing that a transmission cooler is an icebox that will destroy your car. Your loss.


P.S:
"If your saying a tranny cooler doesnt cool anything, then why dont you drive without your radiator? " <-- I said it cooled... IF it were hot. When it's not... It WARMS. Get it? That's how heat exchange works. It works both ways. Thanks for not being able to read. :thumb2:
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Old 01-20-2004, 10:14 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laser02
Okay. Ignore the fact that the fluid in the radiator is heat exchanged with the coolant.

You keep on believing that a transmission cooler is an icebox that will destroy your car. Your loss.


P.S:
"If your saying a tranny cooler doesnt cool anything, then why dont you drive without your radiator? " <-- I said it cooled... IF it were hot. When it's not... It WARMS. Get it? That's how heat exchange works. It works both ways. Thanks for not being able to read. :thumb2:
it has to be hot out for any heat transfer to work. 10* wheres this heat coming from to warm it up? My car takes like 20 mins to warm up in this weather. And thats driving it with a 180* thermo.

thanks for believing in physics
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Old 01-21-2004, 08:42 AM   #43
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Ugh... You think the combustion in your engine happens at 10*? You think your coolant stays at 10*? You think your tranny fluid stays at 10*? Sorry. But it doesn't.

Now you're arguing a completely different topic though. At first you were saying the tranny would NEVER warm up. Which... newsflash... is bull****. The coolant heats it up. Even if it takes 5-10 minutes. And will keep it warm. Tranny coolers add more fluid to your car. That means a) it takes more energy to boil and b) it takes a greater temperature drop for a longer period of time to freeze. Explain how that doesn't help you. Hmm! Maybe because tranny coolers are refrigerators! And they magically drop your tranny below freezing all the time! And radiators don't heat exchange with the in-house tranny cooler! And you don't know how to read! Or anything about heat exchange! Or radiators!

Trying to argue against a topic that you obviously don't clearly understand is stupid. Tranny coolers will NOT ever overcool your fluid.
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Old 01-21-2004, 12:15 PM   #44
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I LOVE how you just jump around and have to call me stupid.



Ready, why do we need tranny coolers? Because the built-in one doesnt do ****.

SO, by your magical thinking, the built-in cooler will now warm up coolant, but it couldn't cool it down.

So it works one way but not the other, but wait, no wait

HAHA

THINK. I wont resort to childish name calling such as yourself. A tranny cooler is finned for a reason. To allow heat transfer to OUTSIDE AIR.

The built-in tranny cooler doesnt do anything worth while.


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Old 01-21-2004, 12:54 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangin99
SO, by your magical thinking, the built-in cooler will now warm up coolant, but it couldn't cool it down.

So it works one way but not the other, but wait, no wait
I wouldn't call you stupid if you appeared to be able to read. Instead you just seem to want to "win" and post a bunch of smilies. I have said at least three times now that the built-in tranny cooler COOLS IF THE FLUID IS HOTTER THAN THE COOLANT. If the fluid ISN'T HOTTER THAN THE COOLANT --- IT WARMS IT UP.

That's how heat exchange works. Heat travels to the coldest spot first. In EITHER direction.
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Old 01-21-2004, 04:45 PM   #46
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then what does a tranny cooler ACTUALLY DO?

more fluid does not keep it running cooler.

Here's an experiemnt for you.

Boil some water. When its hot, dump some cold water into it. Its only a matter of time before the entire pot is warm.

It doesnt matter how little fluid the cooler adds. It moves, it doesnt just sit there and cool down. There for its constantly getting used and heated up.

So now, the non-functional stock cooler doesnt cool anything. So your dumping hot fluid back into the tranny pan.

You also seem to think your coolant somehow cools your tranny fluid???

The tranny fluid goes into the radiator, which is cooled by AIR. The coolant is a minimum of 195*. HAVE FUN RUNNING YOUR TRANNY TEMP AT THAT.

The pupose of a tranny cooler is the same purpose as having aradiator for your engine. To allow the heat transfer between the trany fluid and AIR NOT YOUR COOLANT.

This way your not cooling your tranny fluid with 195* coolant.

Ever heard of Newton's Law of Cooling? The biggest difference in temp will cause it to cool faster. Hmm....195* or 60* air.

So back to my original arguement.

take 10* air. And have it being cooled. It will take a very long time to warm up your tranny fluid in this temp! And how do you warm tranny fluid? by driving it. So you will be driving around with cold fluid for an extended period of time.

But I'm done with this arguement. You seem to be the only one who thinks this way, I have talked to a professional engine builder/shop and he steered me away from a cooler since it is a winter car.

You live in a southern state, do you know how cold 0* is?
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Old 01-21-2004, 06:57 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangin99
more fluid does not keep it running cooler.
Boil some water. When its hot, dump some cold water into it. Its only a matter of time before the entire pot is warm.
Here's an experiment for you: Boil Lake Eerie. Okay. Now boil a glass of water. Which one took longer to boil? Ever wonder why the ocean doesn't fluctuate in temp much? You're right. It's because there's a lot of fluid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stangin99
So now, the non-functional stock cooler doesnt cool anything. So your dumping hot fluid back into the tranny pan.
Only when the fluid is colder than the coolant. You are dumping WARMer fluid back in. Once the fluid heats up, the temperature will remain pretty consistant. It won't boil. It won't freeze.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stangin99
You also seem to think your coolant somehow cools your tranny fluid???
The tranny fluid goes into the radiator, which is cooled by AIR.
The tranny cooler IS NOT the radiator. It is IN the radiator. It is in no way in the air-path. It's surrounded with --- you guessed it --- COOLANT. Coolant that is cooled by AIR... But coolant none-the-less. Here. Maybe this will help:

Quote:
If you examine the location and orientation of the heat exchanger in the radiator, you will see that it is located where the radiator's bypass water flow runs. Normally, the heater core is fed from an engine tap before the coolant thermostat, so that it sees warm water as soon as any significant heat has been produced by the engine warming up. The return water from the heater core is dumped back into the radiator in a place where it will flow across the heat exchanger before it re-enters the water pump and makes another circuit. This means that the heater core water, which warms up more quickly than the main radiator water, also serves to warm up the transmission fluid in the heat exchanger. This is important because warm transmission fluid is only a so-so lubricant, and cold transmission fluid is even worse. You want to get the fuid warmed up as soon as possible in order to lengthen the life and improve the durability of the transmission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stangin99
The coolant is a minimum of 195*. HAVE FUN RUNNING YOUR TRANNY TEMP AT THAT.
Tranny's will last 80,000+ at 190. That's long enough for me. It's 200+ where they really start to hurt.

I've attached a really pretty picture for you so you don't have to like... read... or anything.

I'm done. You don't seem to want to learn.
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Old 01-22-2004, 06:46 PM   #48
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MAN! I don't check the forum for like, a day, and you guys have been at WAR!!! More heat on this post than in the transmissions...

Agree to disagree and let's go cook some rice...
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Old 01-22-2004, 06:50 PM   #49
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We're just trying to keep the forum moving along...
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Old 01-22-2004, 06:59 PM   #50
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That's cool. I'm just glad you guys aren't neighbors or you'd be out rolling around in the gravel by now.

Anyway, I appreciate both sides of the argument. Lots to think about.
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Old 01-22-2004, 08:33 PM   #51
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Yeah, yeah... 3000 miles is just -barely- far enough away.
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Old 01-22-2004, 10:14 PM   #52
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lol yea. This board needs some spicing up.
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Old 01-23-2004, 09:32 AM   #53
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True. But that was one of the weakest flame wars I've ever been a part of.
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Old 01-23-2004, 12:21 PM   #54
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I didnt know it was a flame war?
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Old 01-23-2004, 05:34 PM   #55
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Well you're an IDIOT then.


...
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Old 01-23-2004, 09:38 PM   #56
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a technical arguement != flame war.

a flame war would be me insulting you personally and you returning the favor..
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