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Old 09-15-2010, 07:39 PM   #1
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Turbo Questions.

I'm sure these have been asked before, I just wanted to stickem all in one post and these are off the top of my head so...

1. Supercharger or Turbocharger? (I'm kinda a stop light battle guy..)
2. From TMA turbo, "Street/Strip Kit" or "Street Kit?"
3. What do I have to buy after the kit if I'm running 10+ psi?
4. What is a Egr block off plate?
5. Do I have to buy a $250.00 MAF? What does it do exactly?
6. What do I have to buy for the fuel system? Will it give me less MPG?

Thanks for the much anticipated responses.
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Old 09-15-2010, 08:03 PM   #2
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Re: Turbo Questions.

1. It's all in your personal preference. Superchargers give you more acceleration while turbochargers give you more power through the mid-high RPM range. If you want to smash opponents from a stop light your answer is supercharger.
2. If you're taking it to the strip, go with the strip kit. If you plan to drive it around town AND/or take it to the strip, get the corresponding kit for that.
3. Most stock motors cant handle more than about 12 PSI, and even that's pushing it to the breaking point. You would need forged rods, pistons, proper cams, basically a whole new bottom end to support the power.
4. Here is a link to how an EGR works
5. It would be wise to upgrade to a larger MAF due to the massive amount of air that is now coming through the intake.
6. Your fuel mileage will directly reflect the type of driving you do and the tune you have for your car. Most common upgrades for boosting are larger fuel injectors, high output fuel pump(255lph), fuel pressure regulator, high flow fuel rails.

There's a lot of work that goes into it, but most of the kits you buy come with most of the necessary upgrade equipment.
Anyone else correct me if I am wrong anywhere, I won't get mad. I'm sure I left a few things off.
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Old 09-15-2010, 08:39 PM   #3
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Re: Turbo Questions.

Yeah for you I would go supercharger, the eaton m112 would look nice on your car. The procharger looks like a turbo thats why I don't like it. but it's what ever you prefer.
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Old 09-15-2010, 08:48 PM   #4
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Re: Turbo Questions.

My buddy put an M112 on his fox. Just didn't quite seem like it put out though. I prefer a procharger. Just seems as if they could push more power at lower boost.
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Old 09-15-2010, 08:52 PM   #5
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Re: Turbo Questions.

well said
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Old 09-15-2010, 08:59 PM   #6
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Re: Turbo Questions.

I don't know? But I like the looks and the sound of a roots type blower. I just think if you put something on your car that looks like a turbo it might as well be one. But like I said it's up to you.
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:09 PM   #7
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Re: Turbo Questions.

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Originally Posted by Straublittleman View Post
I don't know? But I like the looks and the sound of a roots type blower. I just think if you put something on your car that looks like a turbo it might as well be one. But like I said it's up to you.
Ditto. it is ****ing BEAST but I think the centrifugal s/c outperforms it.

I know there's quite a few here who have kenne bell and roush blowers.
PureVenom has the 2.2 KB and SpectorV has the Eaton M112. I'd like to hear their input
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Old 09-15-2010, 10:23 PM   #8
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Re: Turbo Questions.

Awesome guys, thanks for the replies. Are the superchargers more expensive? How much power would it give me? Are they harder/easier to install? And the eaton or procharger?
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Old 09-15-2010, 11:00 PM   #9
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Re: Turbo Questions.

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Awesome guys, thanks for the replies. Are the superchargers more expensive? How much power would it give me? Are they harder/easier to install? And the eaton or procharger?
Again it's about personal preference what type of blower you purchase. Straub likes the roots type, I like the centrifugal. As for which makes more power and how much it gives you, it depends on the setup and tune. Certain turbocharger and supercharger kits run about the same price, depending on what brand you get. For installation difficulty, turbos and superchargers are about the same, just different components and placements.

What is your horsepower goal, and what do you plan to do with it once that goal is reached?
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Old 09-16-2010, 12:07 PM   #10
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Re: Turbo Questions.

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Again it's about personal preference what type of blower you purchase. Straub likes the roots type, I like the centrifugal. As for which makes more power and how much it gives you, it depends on the setup and tune. Certain turbocharger and supercharger kits run about the same price, depending on what brand you get. For installation difficulty, turbos and superchargers are about the same, just different components and placements.

What is your horsepower goal, and what do you plan to do with it once that goal is reached?
My horsepower goal is ultimately 350hp and I don't plan to do any track-racing or anything, I just want some more power for my daily "driving".
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Old 09-16-2010, 01:16 PM   #11
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Re: Turbo Questions.

an M112 03/04 cobra supercharger setup will get you to about 350 flywheel hp if not over (not rear wheel hp though) and will cost you around 3k if you do the install.
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:52 PM   #12
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Re: Turbo Questions.

I believe and you all can correct me if i'm wrong, You can get more horsepower out of a turbo setup over all if you want to spend the money or up grade later. The supercharger does take away horsepower just because it is belt driven.
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Old 09-16-2010, 03:05 PM   #13
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Re: Turbo Questions.

^^ very true you will make more hp on a turbo, the more fun street/strip setup would be a roots/twin screw as they make more lower end tq due they are positive displacment blowers~ issue with the M112 from a 03/04 cobra is its not intercooled or watercooled on the v6 setup and the hood may not clear it in stock form~
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Old 09-16-2010, 03:11 PM   #14
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Re: Turbo Questions.

Turbo....

Positive displacement blowers are great for stop light blasts, but turbo technology has gotten so much better you can almost eliminate turbo lag, and with an EBC and some tuning roots/screw cars may not even stand a chance at a light
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Old 09-16-2010, 05:07 PM   #15
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Re: Turbo Questions.

Supercharger Pros/Cons:

- The way the M112 Looks.
- The fast response time.
- The low RPM's boost.

- Less horsepower
- Belt Driven
- May not fit under my hood.

I never thought turbo/supercharger would be such a hard question to ask myself.
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:52 PM   #16
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Re: Turbo Questions.

Turbos are better for all around purposes. They are simple to maintain and upgrade, and it sounds better than a supercharger in my opinion. You can also get more power from it.

Or you could superturbocharge it...
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:59 PM   #17
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Re: Turbo Questions.

I wonder if you could make it work having a roots type charger for lowend power and a big turbo that kicked in at high rpms that would be awesome!
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:07 PM   #18
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Re: Turbo Questions.

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Originally Posted by Straublittleman View Post
I wonder if you could make it work having a roots type charger for lowend power and a big turbo that kicked in at high rpms that would be awesome!


It has been done for the GT. not sure about the V6 but this thing is good for about 1400-1700HP.

You can get up to 76mm turbos for this beast
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:48 PM   #19
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Re: Turbo Questions.

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Old 09-17-2010, 06:55 AM   #20
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Re: Turbo Questions.

Woo..wooooo....are you guys telling me that one is able to put a super & turbo charger on a mustang?!? I've never heard of this done! I guess I never thought of a Mustang needing one because it's something I only see and hear of with the rice burners. Well, this is a new one for me!
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:49 AM   #21
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Re: Turbo Questions.

Haha... both might be overkill. I'd just get a supercharger and be done with it.
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:17 AM   #22
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Re: Turbo Questions.

Yeah, putting turbos and a supercharger on is great if your building a show car.....


Otherwise you will make more power with Just a turbo, or two. MM&FF did a test on this in one year the s/c is a bottle neck for the turbos.
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:17 AM   #23
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Re: Turbo Questions.

Ill throw another wrench into the mix... before I do please dont take this as "buy a GT" as I love V6's but its always something to sit back and consider.

If you were to take the money you would invest in your car (say 5k after its all said and done) then your car will be worth no more money, you might could get 2k more out of it if you sold the supercharger kit as most in the market for a v6 mustang dont want the power.. and if they did they wouldnt pay you what you invested for mods (no matter the car thats 99% the case always)

So you will have a car worth the same as it was and you just pissed away 3-4k which sucks and the car might blow up or have issues as some do no matter how careful you are... then you will be out even more to fix it. Also, any time you heavily mod a car you WILL HAVE MANY issues its just how it is so if you dont want to or cant afford to have an issue every other time you turn around reconsider. If this is your main source of transportation I would very much consider not doing it.

With all that said you could technically sell your car for 7-8k or so maybe more~ not sure on value off the top of my head and invest that 5k into a new car. You could pick up an 03/04 Mach 1 for around 14k give or take and have 300hp to start with reliably in a car that will hold its value better~

Just something else to consider before you dive into heavily modifying a car
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:29 AM   #24
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Re: Turbo Questions.

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Turbo....

Positive displacement blowers are great for stop light blasts, but turbo technology has gotten so much better you can almost eliminate turbo lag, and with an EBC and some tuning roots/screw cars may not even stand a chance at a light
Yea, common grounds to test this theory is a 4 door Super Crew 4x4 F250+ spooling the turbo at a light in 4wd Low as he cake walks me in My 03 Cobra for about 100ft. Although having this advatage in an AWD or more powerful car will always give you the upperhand. Don't forget with the right driver, tires, and set up a high power launch can be had in just as many supercharger applications as turbo applications now. (just fyi... the driver of the F250 times it right to snap it into 4H and 2H at the correct mph to get the most out of the launch....really stressful on the vehicle - common problem is the head bolts streatching and loss of drivetrain parts on launch)

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Originally Posted by 02Nate281 View Post
Turbos are better for all around purposes. They are simple to maintain and upgrade, and it sounds better than a supercharger in my opinion. You can also get more power from it.

Or you could superturbocharge it...
Turbos are high maintenance and costly. If you can't find a true seasoned installer then you may be looking into a costly power added.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Straublittleman View Post
I wonder if you could make it work having a roots type charger for lowend power and a big turbo that kicked in at high rpms that would be awesome!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfsbain76 View Post
Woo..wooooo....are you guys telling me that one is able to put a super & turbo charger on a mustang?!? I've never heard of this done! I guess I never thought of a Mustang needing one because it's something I only see and hear of with the rice burners. Well, this is a new one for me!
There are plenty of applications where turbos have been added along with the factory roots style superchargers on an 03/04 Cobra producing over 1000hp and I have seen as high as 1900 (fully built engine). Turbos are not only an import specific part as our cars respond really well to turbos. Also, remember we had a turbo '84 SVO Fox Body.
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:29 AM   #25
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Re: Turbo Questions.

Agree with that anytime you mod something don't expect to get your money back...

On the other hand I seem to be the 1 person on this forum that can mod a car and not have issues lol.
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:31 AM   #26
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Re: Turbo Questions.

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Originally Posted by SpectorV View Post
Ill throw another wrench into the mix... before I do please dont take this as "buy a GT" as I love V6's but its always something to sit back and consider.

If you were to take the money you would invest in your car (say 5k after its all said and done) then your car will be worth no more money, you might could get 2k more out of it if you sold the supercharger kit as most in the market for a v6 mustang dont want the power.. and if they did they wouldnt pay you what you invested for mods (no matter the car thats 99% the case always)

So you will have a car worth the same as it was and you just pissed away 3-4k which sucks and the car might blow up or have issues as some do no matter how careful you are... then you will be out even more to fix it. Also, any time you heavily mod a car you WILL HAVE MANY issues its just how it is so if you dont want to or cant afford to have an issue every other time you turn around reconsider. If this is your main source of transportation I would very much consider not doing it.

With all that said you could technically sell your car for 7-8k or so maybe more~ not sure on value off the top of my head and invest that 5k into a new car. You could pick up an 03/04 Mach 1 for around 14k give or take and have 300hp to start with reliably in a car that will hold its value better~

Just something else to consider before you dive into heavily modifying a car
Great point. Remember also that the Stock GT would put you exactly where you want to be... a low 14 second range... with no additional cost. Some good drivers can break high high 13s in these vehicles.
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:39 AM   #27
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Re: Turbo Questions.

Oh saleen....
I don't do many high power launches at the stop light Although i do have a video of a friend of mine and a z06 where they both basically did a burn out, staged, and launched on the street one day...
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Old 09-17-2010, 12:47 PM   #28
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Re: Turbo Questions.

you can get a 99-04 gt in the 12s without a poweradder if you are good driver, and have good traction (with all bolt ons/exhaust/suspension/and good tune.
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Old 09-17-2010, 02:45 PM   #29
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Re: Turbo Questions.

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you can get a 99-04 gt in the 12s without a poweradder if you are good driver, and have good traction (with all bolt ons/exhaust/suspension/and good tune.
I've seen it happen on numerous occasions... I was just being subtle with my explination.
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:10 PM   #30
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Re: Turbo Questions.

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On the other hand I seem to be the 1 person on this forum that can mod a car and not have issues lol.
Don't be absurd.

Anyway, for the OP, a couple other things to consider:

Gas mileage, while largely dependent on how you drive, will typically be better with a turbo. Since with turbos, power is only there when you desire it, you don't have the "disadvantage" of making even small amounts of boost from a belt driven supercharger regardless of how heavy your foot becomes. Additionally, a turbo can act as a sort of a ram air, believe it or not, at highway speeds.

To clear up a small misnomer, Superchargers, typically, GROSS more power than a turbo. However, since it's belt driven, it robs some of that power back from the motor, resulting in turbos, again typically, NETTING more power in the end.

For ease of install: a supercharger would be noticeably easier to install. While both can be done in a decently equipped personal garage, a supercharger is less time consuming and a little more convenient as most of the items you remove and install are on or near the top of the engine and there is less piping involved which would lead to having fun times underneath the car as well.

Lastly, you will start developing LOTS of heat under your hood should you go with, say, a TMA turbo set up. I would STRONGLY recommend Jet Coating your piping, and upgrading your cooling system including transmission cooling. While our cars do have a built in tranny cooler, it would be helpful to add a second one in line as the stock one is a little lacking for that power increase.The added heat sink your engine will become will eventually lead to a somewhat shorter engine/tranny component life, and naturally, more heat is less power.
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Old 09-18-2010, 01:41 AM   #31
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Re: Turbo Questions.

o and as far as turbo install, i know that for sn-197s u have to remove the cats for the powerhouse turbo setup
just another thing to consider if its required for your year
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Old 09-18-2010, 02:02 AM   #32
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Re: Turbo Questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkShadow View Post

Gas mileage, while largely dependent on how you drive, will typically be better with a turbo. Since with turbos, power is only there when you desire it, you don't have the "disadvantage" of making even small amounts of boost from a belt driven supercharger regardless of how heavy your foot becomes. Additionally, a turbo can act as a sort of a ram air, believe it or not, at highway speeds.
I have heard this too. That's why they started making VW TDI's and cars of that sort. The turbocharger atomizes the air and allows it to better mix with the fuel, therefore burning more of the fuel in the cylinder and creating less emission waste and giving the driver greater fuel economy..
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Old 09-18-2010, 01:05 PM   #33
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Re: Turbo Questions.

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Originally Posted by DarkShadow View Post
Don't be absurd.

Anyway, for the OP, a couple other things to consider:

Gas mileage, while largely dependent on how you drive, will typically be better with a turbo. Since with turbos, power is only there when you desire it, you don't have the "disadvantage" of making even small amounts of boost from a belt driven supercharger regardless of how heavy your foot becomes. Additionally, a turbo can act as a sort of a ram air, believe it or not, at highway speeds.

To clear up a small misnomer, Superchargers, typically, GROSS more power than a turbo. However, since it's belt driven, it robs some of that power back from the motor, resulting in turbos, again typically, NETTING more power in the end.

For ease of install: a supercharger would be noticeably easier to install. While both can be done in a decently equipped personal garage, a supercharger is less time consuming and a little more convenient as most of the items you remove and install are on or near the top of the engine and there is less piping involved which would lead to having fun times underneath the car as well.

Lastly, you will start developing LOTS of heat under your hood should you go with, say, a TMA turbo set up. I would STRONGLY recommend Jet Coating your piping, and upgrading your cooling system including transmission cooling. While our cars do have a built in tranny cooler, it would be helpful to add a second one in line as the stock one is a little lacking for that power increase.The added heat sink your engine will become will eventually lead to a somewhat shorter engine/tranny component life, and naturally, more heat is less power.
Supercharger making more peak horsepower than a turbo setup?? With more boost maybe not at the same boost level. And what do you mean don't be absurd.

Oh as far as install goes, it takes about the same time to do an s/c and long tubes. Well a vortech + long tubes anyway because you have to relocate the a/c I would guess a procharger would be a quicker install but I've only ever helped do about half of one of those. I try to only speak off what I know from experience.
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Old 09-19-2010, 12:11 AM   #34
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Re: Turbo Questions.

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Supercharger making more peak horsepower than a turbo setup?? With more boost maybe not at the same boost level. And what do you mean don't be absurd.

Oh as far as install goes, it takes about the same time to do an s/c and long tubes. Well a vortech + long tubes anyway because you have to relocate the a/c I would guess a procharger would be a quicker install but I've only ever helped do about half of one of those. I try to only speak off what I know from experience.
Re-read how I explained it. Superchargers will make more power per pound than a turbo in similar set ups. Like I said, the difference comes from the SC robbing a portion of it back from using a belt.

Don't be absurd about being the only one who can mod without breaking things. The conversation that was had earlier, and is no doubt why you brought it up again, related that when you mod a car for more performance, it will eventually have "problems" as Brandon said. Unless a car is built from the ground up for a specific amount of power (like factory, for factory specified power), something will always be put under more strain than it was built to handle for the same period of time. It has nothing to do with whether it was done right or wrong. Something will give, either the part or time, and time doesn't give so... And I'd be knocking on wood if I were you. Just because you haven't had any problems yet, doesn't mean you won't. I hope you don't but it is statistically unlikely, and would defy the physics of stress.

Kit (procharger/Vortech) superchargers are typically completely engineered. Everything bolts in place. Having helped do a complete Procharger install, it was done in one full day (he already swapped pumps), but Andy's kits still had some rough edges (at the time) that needed to be worked out or figured out before being put on and took, I think it was, 3-4 plus the exhaust has to be redone (at least at the dump location). Simply having to do the exhaust side of a turbo install makes it more time consuming than a super install, it's half the system...
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Old 09-19-2010, 12:48 AM   #35
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Re: Turbo Questions.

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Originally Posted by DarkShadow View Post
Simply having to do the exhaust side of a turbo install makes it more time consuming than a super install, it's half the system...
If you have the proper tools, tubing, boost/vacuum lines, and a kit designed specifically for your car, a turbocharger install can take one day or less(full install).
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