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Old 11-06-2003, 09:42 AM   #1
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9 or 12psi?

Hey guys, I'm sending payment next week for my vortech kit + fuel peripherals.

The kit is coming with both a 9 and 12 psi pulley. I don't have an intercooler, would it a requirement to have one in running the 12 psi? I know the 9 should run ok without one, but the 12 I'm not so sure.

I'm asking because I'd like to run the 12 of course.
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Old 11-06-2003, 10:48 AM   #2
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I'd run it with the 9# as it's your daily driver. If you are waiting and will get a dynotune (on the spot), then the 12# may be alright. No promises though. I'd get an intercooler and put the 9# pulley on to make 7-8psi, maybe 275rwhp/275ft lbs. Hope you got your stock crank pulley!

Depending on rpm, intercoolers drop boost 1psi-2.5psi, but its colder air so more power from less boost (same pulley, but less actual boost). So, a 12# non intercooled setup would be "safer" than a 12# intercooled (actually 10-11psi) setup, technically.

Correct me please if I did a brain fart and provided wrong info.

Good luck with the install. If you got questions, RGR and others can help you out as well. V6Sprout is around here I think.
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Old 11-06-2003, 03:48 PM   #3
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Intercooling is not an option right now due to cash limits, but later.

So in your opinion 9# non-intercooled with chip tune will be pretty safe? What ~Rwhp should I expect?
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Old 11-06-2003, 08:11 PM   #4
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you could rig an intercooler for real cheap, but if it's not an option, it'll still be a nice gain.

~250rwhp+. nothing is to be "expected", but if you have less than 240-250 something's up.
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Old 11-06-2003, 09:59 PM   #5
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Just read this from www.howstuffworks.com. Your words speak true dude!

"There are a few things you should know when you looking for a supercharging system. Air dischrage temperature is a measure of the air as it exits the blower. A higher tempertaure means a lower density of oxygen and fuel. Boost is the amount of pressure created by the supercharger. Put these two together and you get the supercharger's efficiency. Don't be fooled by high boost levels, they do not necessarilly mean more power. In order to reach higher boost levels, the blower must turn at higher speed, and thus more heat is created. However, there is an answer to heat. Intercoolers can lower the intake temperature. But even intercoolers have a disadvantage: they reduces the amount of boost pressure."
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Old 11-06-2003, 10:55 PM   #6
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Another factor is flow. A split port v6 and a single port v6 don't flow the same nor have the same characteristics... the same setup could be put on both and the split port would have lower psi but higher output.
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Old 11-07-2003, 07:54 AM   #7
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just run the 9 till you have a good tune.

I we need to work out a time for us to get together and install everything
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Old 11-07-2003, 08:56 AM   #8
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Which leads me to a tuning question. Sorry guys, so many questions, I'm learning much though. Bear with me.

I thought the MAF will handle the air flow regardless of 9 or 12 psi. So what does a tune "tune"? Is it tuning the EEC to handle the new fuel peripherals?

Corey, it would be my pleasure to have your help. I will return the favor by being an extra set of hands to install your V1.
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Old 11-07-2003, 09:02 AM   #9
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Actually the tune will tweek out extra power thru fuel management and timing corrections. A MAF will get you in the ballpark but a tune will make you dead on
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Old 11-07-2003, 09:17 AM   #10
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Yes, a dynotune will show exactly how much power at what rpm you're making, and the correlating air/fuel ratio (a/f). a tune will get that a/f perfect where it should be so max power will be made... plus you can advance your timing (have to run higher octane gas), if it's an auto they can mess with that, i don't know much though, i'm a 5 spd guy, or with gear ratios if you have different gears... a tune is absolutely positively REQUIRED if you're going to do something major like supercharge your car. the MAF basically does its best to do its job but with something major done to the car, no way will it be able to do what is needed.
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Old 11-07-2003, 10:16 AM   #11
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Yeah, but finding reputable tuning shops is few and far between isn't it?
Most people on the boards always say "Don't just take it to any ole shop, they'll blow your engine!".

So why is a Fordchip required at all? To handle the fuel management properly?

Oh, I'm a 5 speed and do not want to advance timing to pay .10-.20 more cents in gas a gallon for 5-10hp.
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Old 11-07-2003, 02:04 PM   #12
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FordChip has a guy that has been doing it for a long time, hell, that's his job at Ford, with the EEC (computer). Basically Pete and Jerry are gurus that will do a better job than others because they do a very detailed tuning... it'd take a while to explain, but let's just say they are the best in the business. Pete tuned his own car and it's that V6 (now 4.2L) with a Vortech running mid 12's with slicks.

If gas and mpg is your concern, stop messing with your car right now, I'm serious. A cent. s/c will be ok on gas mileage because it doesn't make power down low where normal people shift and drive around at, but it'll still go down (mpg). Not advancing the timing while getting a tune really is the half assed why to go about it. I understand what you want, but it's really kinda self destructive to your power ambitions. +Power = -MPG for the most part.
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Old 11-07-2003, 02:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V6PowerStang
If gas and mpg is your concern, stop messing with your car right now, I'm serious. A cent. s/c will be ok on gas mileage because it doesn't make power down low where normal people shift and drive around at, but it'll still go down (mpg). Not advancing the timing while getting a tune really is the half assed why to go about it. I understand what you want, but it's really kinda self destructive to your power ambitions. +Power = -MPG for the most part.
When did I say gas and mpg are a concern. I just said I don't want the extra cost of high octane fuel...sheesh. Interesting soapbox there though man. Plus like you said "A Cent s/c will be ok on gas mileage...". Guess what I'm getting? A Cent s/c! :
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Old 11-07-2003, 03:14 PM   #14
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Hey Ryan even if they dont advance timing, to prevent detonation you need to run 92-93 octane in the car. That is straight from Vortech.
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Old 11-07-2003, 03:38 PM   #15
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If that's the case, then you might as well advance the timing. Just never heard anyone ever mention that you *have* to run 92-93 octane for the S/C, and I've been reading about them for at least 5-6 months now. Still much to learn I suppose.
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Old 11-07-2003, 09:43 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaestroSC
Oh, I'm a 5 speed and do not want to advance timing to pay .10-.20 more cents in gas a gallon for 5-10hp.
sorry, thought that was what you meant by that sentence.
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Old 11-07-2003, 09:46 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaestroSC
Quote:
Originally Posted by V6PowerStang
If gas and mpg is your concern, stop messing with your car right now, I'm serious. A cent. s/c will be ok on gas mileage because it doesn't make power down low where normal people shift and drive around at, but it'll still go down (mpg). Not advancing the timing while getting a tune really is the half assed why to go about it. I understand what you want, but it's really kinda self destructive to your power ambitions. +Power = -MPG for the most part.
When did I say gas and mpg are a concern. I just said I don't want the extra cost of high octane fuel...sheesh. Interesting soapbox there though man. Plus like you said "A Cent s/c will be ok on gas mileage...". Guess what I'm getting? A Cent s/c! :
sorry to lecture, i didn't mean to demean you, it's just my opinion, and if you supercharge a v6, you've gotta be desperate for power, right?
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Old 11-07-2003, 09:50 PM   #18
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Nope just saying if I had a choice, I wouldn't want to pay extra $$$ on every fill up for a measly 5-10hp. That would be the worst hp/cash ration known to man.

$.20 per gallon more x 15 gallons per fillup $3.00
52 fillups a year x $3 = $156/year
$156/year x 4 years (est ownership length) = $624
$624 for ~10 rwhp. $62/rwhp

Unless my numbers are wrong, that's crazy and anyone that had a choice should choose against it. However, since it's needed, than that's the price you have to pay.

Hope what I meant is clear now. Probably needed to explain more, but when you type in a conversational method, meanings and connotations can get lost.
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Old 11-07-2003, 09:53 PM   #19
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Only reason I'm even going the s/c route is

Votech Kit with 10k miles, 2 belts, 2 pulleys
All fuel peripherals (42#, 255lph, 75 AND 80 MAF)
$1700

Wouldn't really call myself "desperate" for power, just when you can have GT performance for only $1700 (plus chip reburn), I couldn't pass it up.
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Old 11-08-2003, 12:16 AM   #20
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That's a hell of a deal. What fool sold all of that for 1,700$?

Oh, and good job in finding that. The fuel stuff alone costs half of that price, new and wholesale, of course.
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Old 11-08-2003, 08:10 AM   #21
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Thanks dude, I'm really excited about it!

The guy has advertised his kit on 3.8 for months (I've been watching it). It started at 2100 and he went down by 100's for several months. And he's finally like "$1700 SHIPPED, Come on Guys!". I jumped on that!
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Old 11-08-2003, 08:47 AM   #22
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Plus I'm sure you can sell your UD pulley and CAI for ~175$+ for both anyways.
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Old 11-08-2003, 09:12 AM   #23
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True..good point.
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Old 11-10-2003, 01:17 PM   #24
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Run the 12 and stock crank pulley,
12# is kewl but have a chip on the way
before the install! Is it an FMU arrangement?
If it is a chip is not needed supposedly,
if it has all the stuff Vortech sends to make it run 12#
then it should be OK. What porting will you have to go with it?
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Old 11-10-2003, 01:25 PM   #25
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i don't think any porting or anything else becuase he said it's just by chance he even has the supercharger but it was a good deal.
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Old 11-10-2003, 01:38 PM   #26
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Going to order a Fordchip before install. The guy said it comes with the Diablo chip and all I'd have to do is get it reburned for my ECU #. I would think the price to reburn is just about the same as a new one, so thought Fordchip would be the way to go?

No porting right now.

My goal with my v6 is a lot more modest than many around the board. My goal with my sixer is to have "GT" performance and that's it. I'm not interested in ever going over 300 rwhp. If I get 270-290 rwhp, I'll be a satisfied consumer and will not mod my v6 anymore.

When I saw this whole kit for $1700, I just jumped on it. GT performance (my goal), for $1700. DEAL.

I just downloaded the install guide, and I'm intimidated big time. I'm going to have to enlist some help on this one. Hopefully Corey can work something out with me.
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Old 11-10-2003, 02:06 PM   #27
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Since you have a 99^ it should really do well w/12# boost.
You're just a cam away from major HP with or without
the SC, cam and SC = GT killing performance
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Old 11-10-2003, 10:38 PM   #28
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Oh, i've already given that some thought Robert. I was reading where your cams were producing 20+ rwtq/hp. That would be all it would take to get very close to or better than 300rwhp.

I don't know if I could install a cam though. I'm really wanting to learn though. I've even thought about taking a mechanics course at the local community college, but the master's coursework is keeping me busy enough.
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