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Old 08-24-2012, 01:55 PM   #1
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pure engine or turbo power?

So I'm at the point where idk if I should try to get as much power out of my engine just by upgrading internals, bolt ons, boring cylinders, etc. Or if I shuld build the car for a turbo. Can anyone tell me what both will exactly entail, which will be cheaper, and can I go from a pure power engine to adding a turbo later? All the help is appreciated. Thank you.
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Old 08-24-2012, 03:58 PM   #2
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Re: pure engine or turbo power?

I dont know much about motor building, or turbochargers, but I honestly like the idea of being fast with all motor. Kind of like being strong without using steroids is how i look at it. Not downtalkin turbo's but thats what i like about the newer boss 302's. All motor, all muscle.
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Old 08-24-2012, 04:48 PM   #3
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Ya I like that too. But how much power can I get just using 3.8 V6 power?
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Old 08-24-2012, 05:13 PM   #4
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Re: pure engine or turbo power?

I feel that way with nitrous,,but the good thing about turbos and chargers,,is you can pretty much drive it everyday without killing your gasmileage ,,but have the power when you want,,When you build a engine thats capable to the power of tubos and chargers,,youll better off making it a track car...Thats why i dont mess with old engines and carbs,,because i want something fast and something i dont have to trailer around..I had a fast chevelle i built,,but you couldnt drive it on the street
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Old 08-24-2012, 07:17 PM   #5
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Re: pure engine or turbo power?

^^ i hear you on that, an exhaust, CAI, and a tune up and maybe a throttle body is the farthest i'm gettin into my engine.


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Originally Posted by morthis32 View Post
Ya I like that too. But how much power can I get just using 3.8 V6 power?
You'd be surprised
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Old 08-25-2012, 01:38 AM   #6
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Re: pure engine or turbo power?

N/A the most i've seen is under 250rwp...with a power adder i've seen over 500 online...and about 400rwhp in person, but that's using an m112 not a turbo setup
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Old 08-26-2012, 01:19 PM   #7
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Re: pure engine or turbo power?

Honestly, if you buy a turbo most people will be satsified with the power on stock internals you wont need to build the engine. I've heard anywhere from 8-12 lbs of boost being safe stock, but either way your looking at low to mid 300's for hp with stock internals.
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:35 AM   #8
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Re: pure engine or turbo power?

if you do N/A build it'll be more costly for less HP but it's always fun to learn the motor from messing with it lol

if you choose to build the motor first and are 100% certain you will turbo later, make sure you get the right cam for a turbo setup, or run a good N/A cam and then switch out to a turbo cam when it's time to drop in a blower setup

are you in the market to buy now or planning for the future?

here's a good place to get motor parts and such from for a good price
Home - Kyle Person Performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1slosix View Post
N/A the most i've seen is under 250rwp...with a power adder i've seen over 500 online...and about 400rwhp in person, but that's using an m112 not a turbo setup
Mr.redpony had 271 rwhp (std) on MM with an N/A build

N/A record is 28X rwhp, it is yentzer's (from SSM) nitrous fox
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:42 AM   #9
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Re: pure engine or turbo power?

ah i havent' been on MM in a while so i didn't know his final build was done. it's good to see that it came together good
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:47 AM   #10
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Re: pure engine or turbo power?

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Originally Posted by 1slosix View Post
ah i havent' been on MM in a while so i didn't know his final build was done. it's good to see that it came together good
not quite very good lol he cracked a head somehow (never heard what happened to cause it) so he's getting another set ported up to put on
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:45 AM   #11
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SMSS claims 300-400 engine power NA fully build hi-comp engine etc... Race crank... Etc...

But yes... Kyle is awesome to work with.
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:37 AM   #12
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I have decided to go supercharger for these facts.
1.better mpg than n/a and close to. that of a turbo as long as u shift around 2g. I've personally rode in a gtp that had some engine work done when out of boost she got 30mpg. When in.... she kicked ***.
2.Less engine heat
3. Easier install
4. Less headaches for tuning
5. Less money since I have very little right now.
And lastly
6. And I have to agree... sc equals the original muscle thought. Turbo equals more of a ricer thought. Even though I wuld nvr bash either. Muscle boy at heart but "I can apreciate a good body regardless of make."

My question now if what sc wuld be best if I'm looking for around 600hp/580-620lb- torque?
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:43 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morthis32
Ya I like that too. But how much power can I get just using 3.8 V6 power?
You would be way better off saving up and then selling your car and getting into a gt or cobra.
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:45 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morthis32
I have decided to go supercharger for these facts.
1.better mpg than n/a and close to. that of a turbo as long as u shift around 2g. I've personally rode in a gtp that had some engine work done when out of boost she got 30mpg. When in.... she kicked ***.
2.Less engine heat
3. Easier install
4. Less headaches for tuning
5. Less money since I have very little right now.
And lastly
6. And I have to agree... sc equals the original muscle thought. Turbo equals more of a ricer thought. Even though I wuld nvr bash either. Muscle boy at heart but "I can apreciate a good body regardless of make."

My question now if what sc wuld be best if I'm looking for around 600hp/580-620lb- torque?
You'd have to run a lot of boost 20#+ and have a fully built motor for 600 hp the gt's with the 4.6 only average 450 hp from a blower and bolt ons only and that's starting around 270rwhp. I don't frown on nos or look at it as a cheap alternative. I think it should be a final mod.
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:48 AM   #15
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Re: pure engine or turbo power?

A ysi blower lmao

600rwhp will be difficult with a supercharger, considering the amount of power they suck up, and to get a blower to support that power level it'll probably be cheaper to go turbo

As a side note a turbo can be cooled to very low IAT levels so you can mark that off the list of reasons
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:49 AM   #16
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Trust me, if ir in a v6 mustang now, you are not ready for anything like 600 hp, nor do you have the money to complete such a build.
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:05 PM   #17
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Re: pure engine or turbo power?

Just because your in a gt doesn't mean you're ready for anything like 600rwhp either lol

You have to learn one way or another and thinking about it sure doesn't count

Also what car you drive doesn't mean how much money you have..
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:06 PM   #18
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Re: pure engine or turbo power?

If your planning to go for big power definantly go turbo, boost can be adjusted with a couple of clicks of manual boost controller and You get way more power for the amount of money as compared to a supercharge.
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:03 PM   #19
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Re: pure engine or turbo power?

375-400 rwhp makes an insane daily driver. You don't have a lot of spaces to even get on it for that long. 1st gear is useless and by the time you're out of 2nd, you're breaking the speed limit. LOL
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:15 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike SVOR
375-400 rwhp makes an insane daily driver. You don't have a lot of spaces to even get on it for that long. 1st gear is useless and by the time you're out of 2nd, you're breaking the speed limit. LOL
I'm not looking at having a car that just does the speed limit. Lol
I'm looking for a car that's competative.
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:18 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidcseifert
Just because your in a gt doesn't mean you're ready for anything like 600rwhp either lol

You have to learn one way or another and thinking about it sure doesn't count

Also what car you drive doesn't mean how much money you have..
I don't own a gt. I have driven thousand hp vettes and awesome exotics. I didn't say I was able to fully exploit any of them. I just know that someone jumping from a stock v6 to a 600hp monster is going to end up in the hospital. Also if you're looking for cost effective power you probably don't have the money for it. Doing a proper build to 600 hp is a serious proposition.
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:20 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Stang.racr

You'd have to run a lot of boost 20#+ and have a fully built motor for 600 hp the gt's with the 4.6 only average 450 hp from a blower and bolt ons only and that's starting around 270rwhp. I don't frown on nos or look at it as a cheap alternative. I think it should be a final mod.
The gts only make 200hp and idk yet if I wanna do my v6 or swap to a v8.
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:33 PM   #23
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Re: pure engine or turbo power?

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I'm not looking at having a car that just does the speed limit. Lol
I'm looking for a car that's competative.
Competitive with WHAT? Don Garlits?

Don't mod your daily driver unless you have another vehicle. LOL
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:43 PM   #24
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Re: pure engine or turbo power?

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I don't own a gt. I have driven thousand hp vettes and awesome exotics. I didn't say I was able to fully exploit any of them. I just know that someone jumping from a stock v6 to a 600hp monster is going to end up in the hospital. Also if you're looking for cost effective power you probably don't have the money for it. Doing a proper build to 600 hp is a serious proposition.
never said you were, just making a point...

as for cost effective even the big dogs like to spend money wisely, just because you have it doesn't mean you should throw it away, and no one trip out saying that a V6 is a waste of money the car it self is personal opinion

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The gts only make 200hp and idk yet if I wanna do my v6 or swap to a v8.
which gt would that be? i know the new edge gt's average 220-225rwhp stock (with somewhere around 260 tq)
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:47 PM   #25
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Re: pure engine or turbo power?

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Originally Posted by davidcseifert View Post
A ysi blower lmao

600rwhp will be difficult with a supercharger, considering the amount of power they suck up, and to get a blower to support that power level it'll probably be cheaper to go turbo

As a side note a turbo can be cooled to very low IAT levels so you can mark that off the list of reasons
david i hate to say it but i have a friend running a liquid cooled ysi pushing over 1k to the wheels...he's been running it for a few years now. granted this is in a t-bird lol
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:02 PM   #26
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Re: pure engine or turbo power?

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david i hate to say it but i have a friend running a liquid cooled ysi pushing over 1k to the wheels...he's been running it for a few years now. granted this is in a t-bird lol
uhh V8 t-bird i'm guessing? if it was a sixer everyone in our group would know about it lol

for that matter, the highest rwhp 3.8 based V6 motor is ~800rwhp in a T-bird incase anyone was wondering, with torque out the @$$

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Old 08-27-2012, 03:29 PM   #27
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Competitive with WHAT? Don Garlits?

Don't mod your daily driver unless you have another vehicle. LOL
Competative with the street cars in the flint area. And I've seen quite a few sc and turboed cars get great gas milage. Also I wuldnt. E going straight to 600hp. I wuld be gradually upping the boost. I still have to do the internal work to the eingine.
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Old 08-27-2012, 03:58 PM   #28
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Re: pure engine or turbo power?

So a nice T-70 unit, 8.5:1 pistons and some H-beam rods, and a Megasquirt II 3.57, and some 70# to 80# injectors, and a pair of in-tank fuel pumps or external, clutch, trans, rearend, laptop computer to program with, wide band O2 setup, intercooler, piping, custom headers, custom down-pipe, custom Y-pipe to duals, aftermarket fuel press regulator, intake filter setup, ignition coils(?), wires, plugs, dyno time, forgot engine balancing and while you're at it, might as well bore/hone cylinders and cut/polish crank journals.

Then enough money to cover all those credit card bills.
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Old 08-27-2012, 05:29 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Mike SVOR
So a nice T-70 unit, 8.5:1 pistons and some H-beam rods, and a Megasquirt II 3.57, and some 70# to 80# injectors, and a pair of in-tank fuel pumps or external, clutch, trans, rearend, laptop computer to program with, wide band O2 setup, intercooler, piping, custom headers, custom down-pipe, custom Y-pipe to duals, aftermarket fuel press regulator, intake filter setup, ignition coils(?), wires, plugs, dyno time, forgot engine balancing and while you're at it, might as well bore/hone cylinders and cut/polish crank journals.

Then enough money to cover all those credit card bills.
Does this set-up aplly to sc?
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Old 08-27-2012, 06:17 PM   #30
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Re: pure engine or turbo power?

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Does this set-up aplly to sc?
Yep, minus the T-70 part.

Depends on what hp level you're looking for too.

I'd bet you could get 275-300 rwhp out of a standard bolt on supercharger without any more mods than an FMU and maybe a tuner. Or FMU and megasquirt and wideband O2.
Stock everything else should hold up to that level.
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Old 08-27-2012, 06:38 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Mike SVOR

Yep, minus the T-70 part.

Depends on what hp level you're looking for too.

I'd bet you could get 275-300 rwhp out of a standard bolt on supercharger without any more mods than an FMU and maybe a tuner. Or FMU and megasquirt and wideband O2.
Stock everything else should hold up to that level.
I was told I culd use standard long tube headers because the sc wont affect the exhaust work.
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Old 08-27-2012, 06:40 PM   #32
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Re: pure engine or turbo power?

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I was told I culd use standard long tube headers because the sc wont affect the exhaust work.
Oh yea, sorry dude, my bad. Yea a SC can use stock headers and stock exhaust until you buy new.
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Old 08-27-2012, 06:50 PM   #33
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Oh yea, sorry dude, my bad. Yea a SC can use stock headers and stock exhaust until you buy new.
Also a mechanic told me that my trans can support up to 400hp and that my rear is strong enough cuz its in the 8:8 family. Is that true?
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Old 08-27-2012, 09:21 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by morthis32

Also a mechanic told me that my trans can support up to 400hp and that my rear is strong enough cuz its in the 8:8 family. Is that true?
It might work for awhile but the 7.5 rear wont work and you'll want to get a lsd anyways.
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:19 PM   #35
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Re: pure engine or turbo power?

you'll need better injectors and pump to support that power level of 300rwhp+, my 242rwhp strains the 21's hard and it's just an N/A motor, boosted motors need bigger injectors than an N/A motor would

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Also a mechanic told me that my trans can support up to 400hp and that my rear is strong enough cuz its in the 8:8 family. Is that true?
the trans can take more than that, but your torque converter will not like you at all, a good stall and a cooler would be recommended for a lot of power, also a shift kit would prolong it's life

and unless you did the swap and the mechanic saw it on the car, he doesn't know much about the cars it seems lol only the gt's had an 8.8, it's a direct swap in with the correct year range
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