Difference between downshifting techniques? - Mustang Evolution

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Old 09-05-2012, 12:13 AM   #1
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Difference between downshifting techniques?

Just a few days ago, I happened to read upon DCHT downshifting and I was just wondering how common this technique is used among us stick shift drivers compared to either regular HT or DC. I alternate between HT and DC when driving in the mountains but I also tried doing DCHT a few times on the roads in my neighborhood (we've got a few good angled turns) and found it to be rather hard to mix the two techniques together but I'm getting used to it when going from fourth down to third. Can anyone give me any input on this? Thx in advance.
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Old 09-05-2012, 12:47 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iphonemaster93
Just a few days ago, I happened to read upon DCHT downshifting and I was just wondering how common this technique is used among us stick shift drivers compared to either regular HT or DC. I alternate between HT and DC when driving in the mountains but I also tried doing DCHT a few times on the roads in my neighborhood (we've got a few good angled turns) and found it to be rather hard to mix the two techniques together but I'm getting used to it when going from fourth down to third. Can anyone give me any input on this? Thx in advance.
What do the acronyms stand for?
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Old 09-05-2012, 12:57 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by ColeJohnson

What do the acronyms stand for?
I'm with ya. I have no idea and glad someone else asked first. Thanks for that.
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Old 09-05-2012, 01:04 AM   #4
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Re: Difference between downshifting techniques?

i'm guessing heel toe shifting....

if you like HT shifting i'd do the gas pedal mod...it'll make it a bit easier
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Old 09-05-2012, 06:10 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Mattz400

I'm with ya. I have no idea and glad someone else asked first. Thanks for that.
Heel toe shifting.. Got that. And I don't do that at all. >.> I normal shift. Idk. Haha
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Old 09-05-2012, 09:36 AM   #6
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DC - double clutching

---------- Post added at 09:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 AM ----------

How the hell you heel toe the clutch ? I've heard of double clutching but don't know how to do it or what purpose it be I guess
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:14 AM   #7
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Re: Difference between downshifting techniques?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1slosix View Post
i'm guessing heel toe shifting....

if you like HT shifting i'd do the gas pedal mod...it'll make it a bit easier
yes, for reference, HT=heel toe and DC is double clutch and yeah, I had to do the gas pedal mod for HT shifting. without the mod it's impossible to do it unless you literally jam on the brakes and then blip the throttle but even then, you would have to have flexible feet. I just do both to 1) save wear on synchros and 2) not lose speed coming out of the turn but is the only benefit from combining both to only combine both benefits...?
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:18 AM   #8
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Re: Difference between downshifting techniques?

I use them in different situations: DC on something like the freeway to get the extra power to pass someone. Where as i only HT in turns.
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:22 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by willrad00
I use them in different situations: DC on something like the freeway to get the extra power to pass someone. Where as i only HT in turns.
Yeah same, so I guess they really only use both techniques together on the track or something, that sucks haha. Could use it on regular roads too but that would just mainly be for fun.
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:43 AM   #10
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Double clutching is a technique required for old synchroless manual transmissions. It's a waste of time for us and not necessary. You might be confusing it with blip shifting. DC is where you cllutch in, stick to neutral, clutch out, Rev up, clutch back in, stick into gear. Not necessary. Blip shifting is clutch in, blip revs to the lower gears revs, change gear clutch out and honestly there is no reason not to blip shift. Its easy, sounds awesome, smoothens out the ride, reduces wear to trans, saves clutch and is a skill everyone should use. I do it all the time. It also leads into proper heel toe shifting. Heel toe is exactly the same thing but doing it while braking. Its an advanced technique for sure and it's hard to master unless you have a track to practice on regularly. Left foot clutches. Right foot brakes and either heel or side of foot blips. Practice on gentle braking maneuvers from 60-30 MPH on a 4-3 and a 3-2. Don't do a 4-2 unless you are really good and can nail that shift because mid corner ur messing with a lot of g forces and a shock.to the rear end can make u very sad.
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:56 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBluedude
Double clutching is a technique required for old synchroless manual transmissions. It's a waste of time for us and not necessary. You might be confusing it with blip shifting. DC is where you cllutch in, stick to neutral, clutch out, Rev up, clutch back in, stick into gear. Not necessary. Blip shifting is clutch in, blip revs to the lower gears revs, change gear clutch out and honestly there is no reason not to blip shift. Its easy, sounds awesome, smoothens out the ride, reduces wear to trans, saves clutch and is a skill everyone should use. I do it all the time. It also leads into proper heel toe shifting. Heel toe is exactly the same thing but doing it while braking. Its an advanced technique for sure and it's hard to master unless you have a track to practice on regularly. Left foot clutches. Right foot brakes and either heel or side of foot blips. Practice on gentle braking maneuvers from 60-30 MPH on a 4-3 and a 3-2. Don't do a 4-2 unless you are really good and can nail that shift because mid corner ur messing with a lot of g forces and a shock.to the rear end can make u very sad.
Thanks for explaining the actual technique
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Old 09-05-2012, 12:01 PM   #12
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Re: Difference between downshifting techniques?

heal-toe action
Nissan GT-R vs The World 2 - Best Motoring International - YouTube
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:53 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBluedude
Double clutching is a technique required for old synchroless manual transmissions. It's a waste of time for us and not necessary. You might be confusing it with blip shifting. DC is where you cllutch in, stick to neutral, clutch out, Rev up, clutch back in, stick into gear. Not necessary. Blip shifting is clutch in, blip revs to the lower gears revs, change gear clutch out and honestly there is no reason not to blip shift. Its easy, sounds awesome, smoothens out the ride, reduces wear to trans, saves clutch and is a skill everyone should use. I do it all the time. It also leads into proper heel toe shifting. Heel toe is exactly the same thing but doing it while braking. Its an advanced technique for sure and it's hard to master unless you have a track to practice on regularly. Left foot clutches. Right foot brakes and either heel or side of foot blips. Practice on gentle braking maneuvers from 60-30 MPH on a 4-3 and a 3-2. Don't do a 4-2 unless you are really good and can nail that shift because mid corner ur messing with a lot of g forces and a shock.to the rear end can make u very sad.
I thought blip shifting wears out the clutch? Ever since getting this at, I've been driving it hard so my clutch is about to go out, that's why I haven't been blip shifting it and the guys at TPS told me the best way of saving the clutch is DC.

---------- Post added at 04:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:35 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike SVOR
Thx for the video. For some reason when I try doing HT just like what hattori does in the video, he makes it seem really easy but when i do it (ive been doing it for at least half a year and have run mountain roads for almost the entire time), I brake too hard and when my clutch in, the car always jolts causing my head to go forward a bit. I've tried to clutch in incredibly lightly and it still does that so I think it's the clutch, not me. Do any of u guys, who know how to HT pretty well, tell me why this is? I've been trying to figure it out but don't know what the problem is.
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iphonemaster93

I thought blip shifting wears out the clutch? Ever since getting this at, I've been driving it hard so my clutch is about to go out, that's why I haven't been blip shifting it and the guys at TPS told me the best way of saving the clutch is DC.
When you blip a shift you match the engine speed with the trans speed and as a result you will wear the clutch less. My old car had 200k on its clutch being blipped and it was like new when I sold it.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:54 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBluedude

When you blip a shift you match the engine speed with the trans speed and as a result you will wear the clutch less. My old car had 200k on its clutch being blipped and it was like new when I sold it.
The thing is I bought the car at 134K and I was its second owner, I have no idea how good of a driver the previous owner was.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:00 AM   #16
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How you get the engine and trans at same speed in order to blip shift
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:02 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangg2000
How you get the engine and trans at same speed in order to blip shift
Your blipping (stabbing the accelerator) to get them matched. Clutch in, blip, shift, clutch out.
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:02 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelman
Your blipping (stabbing the accelerator) to get them matched. Clutch in, blip, shift, clutch out.
But that wears out the synchros though (and I know my synchros is wearing out, previous owner of this car didn't do a very good job of maintaining parts), that's why I never do blip shifting, I always double clutch
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:35 AM   #19
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Synchronizers ain't cheap either .. mine in first and second went out in my first trans in my 01 I had ..it was cheaper to just replace the whole trans than it was the synchronizers
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iphonemaster93

But that wears out the synchros though (and I know my synchros is wearing out, previous owner of this car didn't do a very good job of maintaining parts), that's why I never do blip shifting, I always double clutch
Never had that issue & been doing it many years. You sure it was from rev matching?
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:27 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelman
Never had that issue & been doing it many years. You sure it was from rev matching?
Well I mean, even if it was rev matching, I don't know how used up the clutch is and the guys at TPS motorsports did in fact tell me that my clutch was going out so that's why just to be safe, I'm mostly double clutching now but I still sometimes do rev matching if it's too late
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:56 PM   #22
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Curious how is double clutching better for your clutch if your using it twice as much?
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:53 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangg2000
Curious how is double clutching better for your clutch if your using it twice as much?
In a vehicle with a synchronized trans it doesn't really matter. Now something like a semi, you pretty much need to do it, unless you really KNOW how to drive it. I drove a semi and large box trucks for quite awile. There is actually a clutch brake when you are at a stop to get it in gear when you depress the clutch pedal due to the nature of the trans not having syncros and helical gears like 4 wheeled vehicles... Don't sweat the DC thing it's not required in today's modern transmissions.
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:11 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by mustangg2000
Curious how is double clutching better for your clutch if your using it twice as much?
+1
For me clutch in-shift-rev-clutch out, all one motion.
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:45 AM   #25
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I rev match all the time when I downshift. I may take me longer this way, but you get better the more you do it. This is much easier on your clutch. Probably easier on your drivetrain too. No sudden jerkiness when you dump the clutch.
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Old 09-08-2012, 10:57 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by iphonemaster93

The thing is I bought the car at 134K and I was its second owner, I have no idea how good of a driver the previous owner was.
All the reason to get rev matching asap.

---------- Post added at 09:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by iphonemaster93

But that wears out the synchros though (and I know my synchros is wearing out, previous owner of this car didn't do a very good job of maintaining parts), that's why I never do blip shifting, I always double clutch
No. The rev match shift reduces the wear on transmission parts. All of them. The synchros work way harder if the revs need to be adjusted by a wider margin.
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