02 V6 Mustang bone stock P0316 and P0302 codes-refuses to be fixed - Mustang Evolution

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Old 11-27-2012, 11:36 PM   #1
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02 V6 Mustang bone stock P0316 and P0302 codes-refuses to be fixed

Started having trouble with the 3.8 engine about a year ago.

Symptoms:

Hesitation

Rough idle

stumbling on the freeway-felt like it's starving.

Then, it started throwing P0316 and P0302 codes-generic miss, miss cyl 2

Replaced the coil block, the cam synchro, the cam position sensor, the crank position sensor.

A mechanic wrote a post that said that bad injectors can cause those codes, so I replaced the injector on cyl 2.

Still getting the damned codes!

When the car runs good, it runs great, but I am still getting the damned codes and the symptoms.

My $59 DTC tester from Harbor Freight does show one interesting thing: when I look at the "freeze frame" the Fuel Rail Pressure reads 0.0 PSI.

Could it be a bad FRS and it's just not throwing that code?

Another symptom: the RPM's won't go above 4,000 and the engine then surges like you are jamming the throttle. It's very regular, about one cycle every 2 seconds.

Driving me nuts. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:59 PM   #2
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i know this is stupid to ask but you have cleaned the MAF and IAC right
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:02 AM   #3
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Yep.

---------- Post added at 01:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:02 AM ----------

It's an excellent question, by the way.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:05 AM   #4
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well i just ran the codes...the p0302 is a generic miss but the p0316 is a bank 1 o2 code...been there done that on my old GT...had the same issues you're having...a new upstream took care of it for me. i noticed on your list of new parts a new o2 sensor wasn't part of it. did you replace it?
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:42 PM   #5
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I haven't replaced the O2 sensor.

Another symptom: the revs won't go above 4,000 and there is a regular surge after that-like the throttle is being regularly opened and closed.
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:07 PM   #6
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I am not finding a reference to the P0316 to be a O2 sensor code. I keep finding "misfire detected first 1,000 revolutions.

I did have a problem after changing the clutch-the right side exhaust manifold cracked when I re-attached the exhaust pipe. It's a common problem on that model. It took a while to diagnose-the crack is in an inaccessible spot.
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cessnadriver
I haven't replaced the O2 sensor.

Another symptom: the revs won't go above 4,000 and there is a regular surge after that-like the throttle is being regularly opened and closed.
At idle? Thats normal. Please list all codes, symptoms, and if you have your VIN that as well and ill pull it up and try to get an answer to your problem(s)
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:25 PM   #8
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The car idles rough, like the computer is hunting.

The surging happens at 4, 000 RPM and it's a regular rythem. The engine won't rev higher (this is done with the car stationary and the clutch pedal on the floor or with the stick in neutral)

The codes are always P0316 and P0302. Usually happen after a hot re-start.

Blinking SES light when accelerating on the freeway. Also the engine seems to stumble like it's starving.

I'll have to get the VIN to you later.

Thanks for your help, I do appreciate it! Is there a way to PM you the VIN?
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:37 PM   #9
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No problem at all, if you click on my name there should be an option to PM me
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:19 PM   #10
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I'd like to know what the results were from this as well if possible, having some of the same symptoms myself, but no codes. Every now an then when sitting at idle the engine will do a dip and roll or just run rough at low rpms. Happens randomly. All I've done so far to troubleshoot was a vacuum leak check around the heads and intake manifolds, didn't come up with nothin.
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:45 PM   #11
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The first thing to check on the 3.8 type V6's is the camshaft syncronizer.

It's easy to check. When the bearing goes out it often squeaks, so you can do the ole paper towel roll as stethoscope trick.

You can also easily remove the Camshaft Postion Sensor (looks like a little black cap with a nose) wich sits on top of the synchronizer.

You should be able to remove the sensor for inspection without touching anything else.

The locking tab on the connector is the "pull up" type. A nice long 1/4 in drive extension and a 5.5 mm socket makes short work of removing and replacing the sensor.

Two things to look for:

There is a tooth on the part that goes around-make sure the tooth is good.

If there is any residue in the top of the synchronizer that looks like rust, it's toast. Get a brand new assembly-DON'T buy a cheap one or a rebuild.

It's a very crappy design!

Hope this will help you out.
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:56 PM   #12
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Alright thanks I'll look into that tomorrow and see what happens.
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:59 PM   #13
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There are several videos on YouTube that show the condition of a bad synchronizer.

Make sure you use the little tool if you change the synchronizer-dont try to eyeball it.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:21 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cessnadriver
There are several videos on YouTube that show the condition of a bad synchronizer.

Make sure you use the little tool if you change the synchronizer-dont try to eyeball it.
What little tool are you talking about?
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:10 PM   #15
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There is a small cap, usually made out of black plastic, that you use to align the camshaft synchronizer.

Some of the YouTube videos show people trying to align the synchronizer without the tool.

Two of the synchronizers I bought came with the cap. The link shows the synchronizer and the positioning tool.

Don't cheap out on this part-get a brand new one from Ford or BWD.

CAMSHAFT SYNCHRONIZER 99-06 FORD 3.8, 4.2L | eBay
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:22 PM   #16
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I apologize for the wait, been busy at work and haven't had a chance to pull up the codes yey
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:24 PM   #17
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I know this may sound crazy but check your sparkplugs and wires. I had this same problem in my 04 and this fixed it after I replaced camshaft position sensor and syncronizer.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:27 PM   #18
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Also as I stated before, there is a rev limiter at 4k on our model mustangs. So that takes care of your concern about it not revving past that.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:36 PM   #19
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Thanks for your advice. Plugs have been changed and the wires have been checked (Cyl 2 and 6 fire together on each rev, so switching the wires makes no difference-runs the same and the car throws the same codes.)

Checking the old and the new spark plugs after break in shows no difference on the #2 plug from the others.

I really did hope it was a bad plug or wire.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:51 PM   #20
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Funny story about governors-the governor of South Dakota was trying to outrun a forest fire in an Explorer and found out that it stopped accelerating at 99 MPH.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:03 PM   #21
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Thank you for that info! One less thing to worry about. I did notice that the engine would turn over 4K when getting on the freeway. Throws a SES light every time I accelerate to freeway speeds. When I do that I do get a blinking SES light and sometimes a loss of power when the light blinks that goes away when the light stops blinking.

---------- Post added at 04:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:02 PM ----------

Thanks for your advice. Plugs have been changed and the wires have been checked (Cyl 2 and 6 fire together on each rev, so switching the wires makes no difference-runs the same and the car throws the same codes.)

Checking the old and the new spark plugs after break in shows no difference on the #2 plug from the others.

I really did hope it was a bad plug or wire.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:04 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cessnadriver View Post
Thanks for your advice. Plugs have been changed and the wires have been checked (Cyl 2 and 6 fire together on each rev, so switching the wires makes no difference-runs the same and the car throws the same codes.)

Checking the old and the new spark plugs after break in shows no difference on the #2 plug from the others.

I really did hope it was a bad plug or wire.

---------- Post added at 03:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:33 PM ----------

Thank you for that info! One less thing to worry about. I did notice that the engine would turn over 4K when getting on the freeway. Throws a SES light every time I accelerate to freeway speeds. When I do that I do get a blinking SES light and sometimes a loss of power when the light blinks that goes away when the light stops blinking.
In every situation I've seen it, with a blinking SES light, and power loss, its almost always a misfire. If that happens again before we get it solved, then pull the code as soon as possible so we can see if it can tell where the misfire is happening
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:11 PM   #23
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The thing doesn't always throw a code when the blinking SES light happens.

If it does throw codes they are always the same: P0316 and P0302.

I have also gotten an SES light and a slight backfire noise from the right side when accelerating while turning right and when going over speed bumps at a constant speed.

It's weird.

BTW, any opinion on the FRP showing 0.0 PSI when I look at the Freeze Frame on my little scanner?
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:25 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cessnadriver
The thing doesn't always throw a code when the blinking SES light happens.

If it does throw codes they are always the same: P0316 and P0302.

I have also gotten an SES light and a slight backfire noise from the right side when accelerating while turning right and when going over speed bumps at a constant speed.

It's weird.

BTW, any opinion on the FRP showing 0.0 PSI when I look at the Freeze Frame on my little scanner?
May be dirty injectors or trash in your fuel lines. It's always good to change your fuel filter , they are like $5-6 around here and its really easy to change the the quick disconnect tool. The fuel filter is under the rear of your car.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:28 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cessnadriver View Post
The thing doesn't always throw a code when the blinking SES light happens.

If it does throw codes they are always the same: P0316 and P0302.

I have also gotten an SES light and a slight backfire noise from the right side when accelerating while turning right and when going over speed bumps at a constant speed.

It's weird.

BTW, any opinion on the FRP showing 0.0 PSI when I look at the Freeze Frame on my little scanner?
Your scan tool may not be able to monitor that PID. If it was 0 then the car wouldn't run period. What im getting from those codes, is to check your wires, and plugs. If youve got a multimeter, detach the wires and test resistance. I doubt youll get it to read OL on it, but check for a high resistance on them, which of the top of my head is anything over roughly .5 ohms per 12 inches of wire.
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Old 11-29-2012, 05:03 PM   #26
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I did change the injector on #2 and it didn't help.

I am going to change the fuel filter soon, but....I HATE THAT JOB!!!
Who designs crap like that?

---------- Post added at 05:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:03 PM ----------

I did change the injector on #2 and it didn't help.

I am going to change the fuel filter soon, but....I HATE THAT JOB!!!
Who designs crap like that?
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Old 11-29-2012, 05:13 PM   #27
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Could it be a bad sensor that doesn't throw a code but confuses the poor little ECU?
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:13 PM   #28
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Its possible, but a malfunctioning FRP sensor will usually set a code, and your o2 sensors will throw a lean code. If i remember correctly, did you say youve changed all your plugs and wires? If so, look into maybe replacing the coil pack itself as well
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:48 PM   #29
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Coil pack is changed. Wires are older but switching cyl 2 and 6 didn't change the P0302 code.

Plugs are brand new.
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:14 PM   #30
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I'd change the wires, just to be safe.
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:17 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForsakenProto
I'd change the wires, just to be safe.
+1
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:26 PM   #32
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I switched two and six and there was no change.
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:41 PM   #33
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Quote:
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I switched two and six and there was no change.
When you say switch, what do you mean?
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:15 PM   #34
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My sentence wasn't very well-formed there, was it?

A diagnostic procedure on the plug wires is to switch the positions of the #2 and #6 wires on the coil block. Since they both fire at the same time on every rotation, if the #2 wire was bad it would have sent the misfire code to #6. The car ran the same and the P0302 code along with the P0316 codes came up. I went through several reset cycles.

Interesting thing: I got a FRP reading one time on the Freeze Frame. The reading was 65 PSI. The next cycle showed 0.0 again.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:38 PM   #35
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Changed the fuel filter. I also resent the keep alive memory.

The car is running good, but still stumbling. I usually have to get about 20 miles after a reset for the thing to start throwing codes, so I'll keep you advised.

They could have found a less pain-in-the-butt place for that filter.
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