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Old 07-10-2008, 07:45 AM   #36
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

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Originally Posted by RyansQuick6 View Post
I've had a few different lsd's in my truck, without any noise. The only thing that should cause noise is impropper installation, i.e. bad backlash, but that would be gear related.
Noise also comes from improper design. So unless Ford is installing a whole crap load of of rears improperly at the factory, that's what I'm going with. I've seen a lot of trucks spit out rear diffs. They owners tossed in new aftermarket ones and they're quiet and haven't been replaced yet.
I'm not saying ALL of them from the factory are bad, but I've seen a crap load that were worthless.

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I wouldn't the 3.8 is pulling GN numbers here. Remember we're still using STOCK ported heads and intakes, we don't have aftermarket blocks, cranks, etc.
Most the 2.3/2.5 guys run stock heads too. It's not worth it to buy the 1 aftermarket head when you can P&P the stock one and get similar or better power for less money than the replacement. No aftermarket blocks there either. But I've only seen a couple cars in the 500hp range that he wants, several more at 400hp... so not as easy to do.
I've come across 2 places that sell 3.8 stuff. If I can find them again I'll post them. I think one's in Texas and one's in Canada. They make a lot of stuff for the 3.8Ls.
I personally don't like the 3.8L. I've had 3 of them and 2 of them were blown to hell under normal driving conditions, n/a too.
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Old 07-10-2008, 07:52 AM   #37
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

thats what i was saying,on the 3.8 websites, the really fast ones are only aking 500hp..and there are a select few. im not sure if we are going aftermarket heads, or having his extrude-honed
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Old 07-10-2008, 08:10 AM   #38
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

so I guess the key to making these 6 cyls quick is putting em on a diet, more so than making tons of power.
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Old 07-10-2008, 08:53 AM   #39
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

There aren't aftermarket heads, but what most people don't realize is that the 3.8 is just a 5.0 that's missing 2 cylinders, basically.

We're pulling lots of power out of them, and the only reason that there aren't a ton of high hp 6ers is due to the lack of popularity, and the lack of mainstream information and support that v8's have.

Mainly we work of off of good old fashioned techniques, porting and polishing heads and upper and lower intake, boring and stroking, and forced induction. The support isn't huge, but it's there and it's plenty for what most of us want to do.

There's also another factor for the 6ers, and it's usually a problem due to the fact that it's a car for people who either can't afford a GT, new young driver's, and people like me who have a 6 and Bullitt and an F150 and just wanted something to be a DD grocery getter.

With the young guys and people that just couldn't afford something with a bigger engine but still wanted a sports car, it's tough for them to afford the big $8k engines and $3k transmissions, so most of them end up with intake and a catback, springs and wheels, and maybe a few other of the most common entry level mods, so there really isn't a market out there for a whole slew of companies to be manufacturing products for them.

Me and another member have commented on how lacking this site's v6 knowledge base is, so just give a few of us some time and we will help bring the knowledge to the uninformed. It's nothing against you GT guys, you're just out of your element in here lol

Oh, and as far as the 8.8 rear end noise issue. I've worked for Ford dealers in the past, and it was very rare to have rear end noise or driveline issues, no more common than any other manufacturer.
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Old 07-10-2008, 08:55 AM   #40
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

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im guessing we are doing 8 rib...all i know is he wants as much power as he can get with the procharger and a complete built motor..from the looks of it, im underestimating its potential..he has a 99
Who has the 99? Kyle's is an 04 if that's what you were referring to.
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Old 07-10-2008, 09:25 AM   #41
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

thought it had 99 emblems on it...ok 04 then.

there are aftermarket heads... im very aware of the potential of the car, my main thing is realistic potential...i dont see somebody that just bought a v6 because it was cheap willing to spend 15K to make it fast. our shop is building a turbo kit for the 3.8 and we are going to try to make as much power as possible. my knowledge is based on hours of research on the v6 forums trying to decide which route to go on kyles car to make him happy for realistic money, and so far i have found that 500 hp is not easily attainable and that its even harder to build any more power...everybody can drop the" somebody has" bomb but that somebody may have a $ $30K v6... those old fashined techniques are pretty much the same ones that the v8 guys are using because thats what works. im not a hellbent v8 guy, i have respect for 6s and am willing to help anybody build one, i just look at realistic goals and what other people are doing..

and as far as being out of my element, i know more about some peoples cars than they do sometimes.
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Old 07-10-2008, 11:56 AM   #42
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

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thought it had 99 emblems on it...ok 04 then.

there are aftermarket heads... im very aware of the potential of the car, my main thing is realistic potential...i dont see somebody that just bought a v6 because it was cheap willing to spend 15K to make it fast. our shop is building a turbo kit for the 3.8 and we are going to try to make as much power as possible. my knowledge is based on hours of research on the v6 forums trying to decide which route to go on kyles car to make him happy for realistic money, and so far i have found that 500 hp is not easily attainable and that its even harder to build any more power...everybody can drop the" somebody has" bomb but that somebody may have a $ $30K v6... those old fashined techniques are pretty much the same ones that the v8 guys are using because thats what works. im not a hellbent v8 guy, i have respect for 6s and am willing to help anybody build one, i just look at realistic goals and what other people are doing..

and as far as being out of my element, i know more about some peoples cars than they do sometimes.
Well 426rwhp on a stock block, and a cam, doesn't equal 30,000$ into a v6. And all he has to do to make it sure it doesn't go anywhere is drop in forged rods and pistons.

1999 3.8 5speed

Turbonetics 62-1
TMA Street/Strip Kit
3-core intercooler 3" piping
Gasketmatched lower
RPM 207/215 500 lift cam
Crankscraper
BBK 70mm TB
NGK Iridiums
Screamin Demon coil
ASP UD pulley
3" exhaust into 2.5 catback

That was his mod list. I think you have underestimated the ford v6... I think Ryan is right you guys are out of your element. I mean J in is "I wont make this a drag car its a street car daily driver" with mix and match body kit, 18" rims, 2 15s in the trunk, and 38-3900lb race weight is making 600rwhp running 6.596 @ 106.74MPH in the 1/8th I wouldn't say tats bad considering he has huge top end turbos. You can do more than you think.
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Old 07-10-2008, 11:58 AM   #43
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

im just basing it off of what i read on the v6 forums,,i may end up proving myself wrong.
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Old 07-10-2008, 12:35 PM   #44
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

It's always nice to be wrong, and it end up being good!

I've done a lot of extras in mine that aren't necessary for having reliable horsepower, but I'm trying to do both performance and pretty, and I'm very picky. I try to take those little extras one step further jsut so they are that much better.

A fully built v6 capable of handling 600hp+ can be had for around $7K. When it comes down to it, ANY vehicle takes about the same amount of money to make over 600hp, wether it's a civic or termi or a 6er. I've budgeted around $20K for my big build, and that's including an extra 50% to cover all the crap that tends to arise during any custom build.

And as far as buying it cuz it was cheap and dumping tons of money into it, that's exactly what I did, I bought it because it got better gas mileage than my F150 on 40's, and I just slapped rims, tint, and a system in it in the first 2 days of owning it. But since I can't leave ANY of my vehicles alone, it just snowballed into this huge project that I never even thought was possible to do with a 6er. I think I'm enjoying the uniqueness of having a common vehicle that is completely different.

I'm certainly not doubting your knowledge, I was merely making an observation off of what i've read in post in my short time being on here. On other sites that I'm on almost every 5th post is about building a forged v6 and doing an M112 conversion. The more complex yet still not mainstream power options tend to be a regular occurence on those sites. Hell, through all my years of experience I was able to build my supercharger kit for $1500, just wish i could have found more things locally.

And I've never seen any of the cars for members on here in Baton Rouge, but I'm also rarely there anymore. I've been out of the scene in BR since back when people were racing at miss Goldies at Flannery down Florida Blvd and the cops didn't care lol
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Old 07-10-2008, 12:53 PM   #45
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

goldies?...yea u been gone a while lol

it doesent take nearly 7k to make 600+hp on a termy,we installed a whipple on one of our customers cars that he got used in trade for his ported eaton and $500. it made 596rwhp on the dyno and would have made more but one of his pumps wasn't working.imma have about 7K in my cobra set-up and have over 800 hp.for 6K people are making 1100 hp on stock termy motors with hp tt kits.

i havent built the **** out of a v6 yet but ive built and worked on many different cars with different mods and i think its gonna be difficult to hit the 600 hp mark on our project but like i said, id like to prove myself wrong.
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Old 07-10-2008, 12:57 PM   #46
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

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goldies?...yea u been gone a while lol

it doesent take nearly 7k to make 600+hp on a termy,we installed a whipple on one of our customers cars that he got used in trade for his ported eaton and $500. it made 596rwhp on the dyno and would have made more but one of his pumps wasn't working.imma have about 7K in my cobra set-up and have over 800 hp.for 6K people are making 1100 hp on stock termy motors with hp tt kits.

i havent built the **** out of a v6 yet but ive built and worked on many different cars with different mods and i think its gonna be difficult to hit the 600 hp mark on our project but like i said, id like to prove myself wrong.
No, it doesn't take 7k to get 600hp on a termy... But 2 brand new cars it takes another 12grand ish to buy one. Of course when your working with 4.6Ls 4 cams and 4valves your gonna get more power yield.

You won't make 600hp with a procharger however. You could do it with a turbo or a m112, or kb if you wanted
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Old 07-10-2008, 01:04 PM   #47
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

If only I were single this whole project would be done already
Friggin rings that cost more than my engine build and all the other crap I have to do lol


I guess it makes me happy to get to do both lol
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Old 07-10-2008, 01:06 PM   #48
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

Oh BTW, if you know anyone looking for a race chassis, I'm selling my Bullitt for $4000 OBO, just gotta get rid of it to help fund the 6er project and make some extra room in the driveway. Bought it to make it a TT project, but obviously got side tracked. lol
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Old 07-10-2008, 01:23 PM   #49
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

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No, it doesn't take 7k to get 600hp on a termy... But 2 brand new cars it takes another 12grand ish to buy one. Of course when your working with 4.6Ls 4 cams and 4valves your gonna get more power yield.

You won't make 600hp with a procharger however. You could do it with a turbo or a m112, or kb if you wanted
600 on the M112? People don't make that on the 03/04 cobras but you can in a V6?

The rest I'm not experienced with, but I Can't see 600 with the eaton on a V6 when you can't do it on an 03/04 cobra. I think it has been done on 1 03/04 cobra with ported heads, lower intake, 302 stroker, headers, and completely spinning the piss out of the eaton with a 2.76 upper and 8# lower I believe it was. Oh, and that was the uncorrected numbers, not STD or SAE.

I would expect to be able to make it with a procharger before the m112.
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Old 07-10-2008, 01:31 PM   #50
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

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600 on the M112? People don't make that on the 03/04 cobras but you can in a V6?

The rest I'm not experienced with, but I Can't see 600 with the eaton on a V6 when you can't do it on an 03/04 cobra. I think it has been done on 1 03/04 cobra with ported heads, lower intake, 302 stroker, headers, and completely spinning the piss out of the eaton with a 2.76 upper and 8# lower I believe it was. Oh, and that was the uncorrected numbers, not STD or SAE.

I would expect to be able to make it with a procharger before the m112.
Well look at it this way the m112 is tiny on the 03/04 cobra its HUGE on the 3.8L. The procharger isn't gonna do 600hp.
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Old 07-10-2008, 01:34 PM   #51
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

So, a blower (M112) that can't make 600 on a cobra will make 600 on a V6. And a blower (Procharger) that will make 600 on a cobra you say won't make 600 on a V6?

I'd have to see this in person long before I would believe reading it on the interwebz.
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Old 07-10-2008, 01:35 PM   #52
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

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So, a blower (M112) that can't make 600 on a cobra will make 600 on a V6. And a blower (Procharger) that will make 600 on a cobra you say won't make 600 on a V6?
Yes... Their is only one guy who has even gotten close to 500rwhp with a procharger. 600 won't happened.
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Old 07-10-2008, 01:36 PM   #53
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

What procharger was he running? The itty bitty one?
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Old 07-10-2008, 01:37 PM   #54
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

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What procharger was he running? The itty bitty one?
D1 with the 3 core race I/C
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Old 07-10-2008, 01:51 PM   #55
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

The concept that allows the eaton to be more efficient is CFM, and for some reason porting and polishing the intake and heads adds a few pounds of boost as well.

The main thing with the eaton isn't limited in boost, it's limited in heat efficiency. I think that at 16psi on a 6, the IAT's will start getting too high, which is why I will implement water/meth, and if that's not enough, then I will slap on a whipple or KB, mainly to hit 20psi and much lower IAT's.
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Old 07-10-2008, 01:59 PM   #56
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

16 psi on an eaton without an intercooler is going to cause the motor to pull a ton of timing. IF you have an intercooler setup, then you will be able to get there no problem.

Porting the eaton and heads has been proven to lose boost, and maintain or gain power. Granted, this is on cobras. I gained boost on my ported eaton, but then again, I added a 6# lower to my setup when it was ported. lol

If you have an intercooler, don't waste your time or money on meth injection. Get the killer chiller. I believe the site is New Page 1 . But, since I don't shop the 6 market, I'm not sure if y'all even have an IC kit for the swap yet.

For reference, meth injection on cobras has gained about 1-2 rwhp.
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:06 PM   #57
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

ok, here goes...the procharger is way more efficient than the m112, if need be the case ill put an f1 on kyles car but since the d1 is efficient from like 15-26 psi i dont think we will need anything but a d1. the d1 on my combination with the race intercooler at 20ps1 is good for 800+ crank hp, im sure it can do 600 on a v6..dont believe me??watch and learn...
eatons only make XX power period, it cant produce more power on a v6 than a v8..it maxes at a set number of horses. as far as porting...i have a customer who lost boost because of porting his heads with no other change so he upped the pulley, the air slides through the motor quicker so it doesent hold it as boost as long which is definitly a good thing.

how complete is the bullet chassis?
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:08 PM   #58
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

an eaton isnt more efficient than anything, unless its a smaller eaton.
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:09 PM   #59
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

not only that the 4 valve DEFINITELY moves more air than the 6.
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:10 PM   #60
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

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Oh, and as far as the 8.8 rear end noise issue. I've worked for Ford dealers in the past, and it was very rare to have rear end noise or driveline issues, no more common than any other manufacturer.
I guess I don't know what I'm talking about then. I guess my dad's truck never spit out two factory rear ends (heavier duty ones at that) and several of my friend's trucks never puked out their factory rears either. Sorry for trying to help, I'll make sure I refrain from that in the future.
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:14 PM   #61
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

i build alot of 8.8s and none ever make noise.they are plenty strong, i just ripped an axle tube out of my chunk and the internals are fine and still dont make noise and it is all factory internals with 4.10 gears..are any of these trucks lowered or hauling eccessive weight?
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:15 PM   #62
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

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not only that the 4 valve DEFINITELY moves more air than the 6.
what, 03 cobra heads flow in the mid 3s stock huh?? im pretty sure thats right.
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:26 PM   #63
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

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i build alot of 8.8s and none ever make noise.they are plenty strong, i just ripped an axle tube out of my chunk and the internals are fine and still dont make noise and it is all factory internals with 4.10 gears..are any of these trucks lowered or hauling eccessive weight?
None of them were hauling weight. Other than my dad's '87 Bronco (oldest of the bunch by far), which was only off-road occasionally, they're all just daily drivers. My neighbor's is lowered a couple inches. None of the trucks have had problems after switching to after market differentials, and they're a hell of a lot quieter.
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:40 PM   #64
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

I know a lot of the stuff sounds backwards as hell, I was jsut as skeptical and throwing out the same respones you guys are until I saw the numbers. For some addball reason, the performance of the Eaton on a V6 is retarded.

In reference to the termis losing boost after porting, they are also porting 8 cylinders, we're 2 short, and if the eaton is turning the same rpm on a 6 as on a termi, then the boost SHOULD be higher on a 6, just due to the 10lbs of ***** in a 5lb bag rule. Forcing the same volume of air into a smaller space increases the pressure, and as we all know with FI, pressure and volume do ungodly things as they are both increased effectively.

Also the only option we have for lower pulleys is to REDUCE boost by going to either a 25 or 42% UDP. We aren't as priveledged as the termis lol

Due to this being such a new thing, I have yet to recieve any numbers as far as impeller rpm-engine rpm to determine wether or not the higher boost numbers may be related strictly to our particular setup.

Basically a 3.6" pulley on a termi at 6250rpm makes the eaton is turning at 9549rpm and producing 5.64psi, but at what engine rpm does the 3.8 have to be at to make the eaton turn at 9549rpm and is it making the same boost? This is one of the things i have yet to find out, which I think is the main thing for calculating true efficiency.
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:43 PM   #65
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

We also can't use an intercoole for the M112, only the M90.

The car is a full roller, interior is crap, but outside is fine.
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:45 PM   #66
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

lowered trucks often bottom out the yoke on the driveshaft which pushes pressure on the pinion and causes premature wear and noise, the bronco goes offroad...it could have tweaked something the first time and caused it to fail later. the same 600hp whipple cobra i spoke of earlier has an 8.8 with 31 spline chunk out of an 05 mustang and its fine.mine stands up to 5000 rpm clutch dumps while dead hooking,at least the internals did ..for now
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:49 PM   #67
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

the eaton is gonna turn the same rpms on a cobra at 5500 as it will on a v6 at 5500. i see your point about only pushing air into 6 cylinders instead of 8 but heres my point...a stock eaton is only good for about 500-550 hp, its not gonna break that limit just by putting it on a v6... you may be pushing more air in a smaller space but you are starting out with much less N/A horsepower.
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:51 PM   #68
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

4k is kinda steep, i can get full gt or v6 rollers for 1/2 that all day.

i bought a full 01 cobra with a slung rod for 2K>>thats where i got my block and shyt from.it was only missing the transmission.
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:57 PM   #69
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

MIne has engine tranny all the Bullitt stuff, minus the shift knob lol, just the Bullit specific parts are worth at least 2k on ebay. When you go from brakes to shocks and springs to skirts, trunk lid, intake, hood scoop, exhaust.

I've considered parting it out, but I'm not being extremely pro-active on selling it lol

Basically if someone wants something a little different, with all the holograms intact, then they can come get it lol
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Old 07-10-2008, 03:07 PM   #70
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Re: 8.8 or 9" rear?

wait a whole car minus interior???? totally different story... pm me some pics..i need a dd mustang, hemi is horrible on gas.
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