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Old 02-03-2013, 06:37 PM   #1
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Big Problem, need help! EMERGENCY!

OK here the story..,.

Yesterday I went to start the stang to go to work ( She drove perfectly fine that morning ). She idled like she was missing on a cylinder. Gave it a little gas down the drive way and she really bogged down so I pulled it back in the garage. Turned it off popped the hood and checked everything. Went to start it again, and she just spins over with a back fire when I let off the key 2 out of about 27 attempts. My Tuner picked up a P1000 (unfinished cycle, so no biggie) and a P0354 code, so I figure easy, just replace the coil pack.

Here is what I have tested/replaced so far. Everything checked out good. The new coil pack is at 1.5 ohms per bank which is where it should be, and I'm getting 12 volts to the pack, but no spark to any plug. Triple checked and all wires are on the right plugs and on the pack.

Fuel pump kicks on, and have pressure up front, so it's not a fuel issue. Also checked the cutoff switch in the trunk.

All grounds are good, and no blown fuses, tested each fuse anyway and all are good.

Crankshaft sensor is working as I can watch the RPM move while she's spinning over. (170 RPM)

New Plugs Motorcraft ( Pre breakdown )
New Coil Pack Motorcraft ( Post breakdown )
New crankshaft position sensor ( Post breakdown )
New Motorcraft wires ( Post breakdown )
New Battery ( Pre breakdown )
New Alternator ( Pre breakdown )

I'm throwing money at this left and right and am making now progress.
So what the hell am I missing?!

I'm concerned PATS may be an issue, although I don't know why it would, or my key dying, which happens to be my only key. I'm just out of ideas.
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Old 02-03-2013, 07:56 PM   #2
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You have your ford key?

---------- Post added at 08:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 PM ----------

I have the pats key just so happens my car prefers the ford key. Weird I know. So lets see your saying your motor spends over and backfires?
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Old 02-03-2013, 08:53 PM   #3
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Have you tried the cam position sensor? They can cause some pretty weird issues when they go. Had a car at the shop that would start, run poorly then die the first few times it was started then would run fine. Changed the cam position sensor and it ran great!

As far as the PATS system goes, if its not working properly the car will start then immediately die. It won't cause a miss or anything like that, it's basically an ON/OFF switch.
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:45 PM   #4
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Have you tried the cam position sensor? They can cause some pretty weird issues when they go. Had a car at the shop that would start, run poorly then die the first few times it was started then would run fine. Changed the cam position sensor and it ran great!

As far as the PATS system goes, if its not working properly the car will start then immediately die. It won't cause a miss or anything like that, it's basically an ON/OFF switch.
Car just spins over now, won't fire. Have my original ford key, only one came with the car. I'm leaning towards pats, as I noticed my theft light is blinking much faster than normal. Going to have my buddy who is a tech bring his equipment to the house tuesday night and check it. I don't know what else I can do to verify while I wait until then. 2 days with my baby sitting in my garage just pisses me off.
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:48 PM   #5
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Car just spins over now, won't fire. Have my original ford key, only one came with the car. I'm leaning towards pats, as I noticed my theft light is blinking much faster than normal. Going to have my buddy who is a tech bring his equipment to the house tuesday night and check it. I don't know what else I can do to verify while I wait until then. 2 days with my baby sitting in my garage just pisses me off.
Sorry to hear about your issues. I know you said you checked the fuel pump... But i would double check... Maybe also look at the fuel filter (sorry if you already have)... Sucks to have the car down.

Good luck and keep us posted!
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:57 PM   #6
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Usually if the PATS system fails it will still start and run for a few seconds, I would check the CCRM in the passenger side wheel well, had a very similar issue with a car at work and it turned out the CCRM got some moisture in it. If that's not the issue try the fuel pump driver or the fuel pressure regulator.
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Old 02-03-2013, 11:16 PM   #7
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Usually if the PATS system fails it will still start and run for a few seconds, I would check the CCRM in the passenger side wheel well, had a very similar issue with a car at work and it turned out the CCRM got some moisture in it. If that's not the issue try the fuel pump driver or the fuel pressure regulator.
False alarm on the pats system, the light doesn't blink when trying to start, so there is no code to read from that. checked fuel already and we're good on that front.

I just can't figure out what else would cause a no fire situation.
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Old 02-03-2013, 11:25 PM   #8
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CCRM. Let me know if you need one.
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Old 02-03-2013, 11:48 PM   #9
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CCRM. Let me know if you need one.
How can I found out if that's my problem? I pulled it out, but it doesn't seem like there is going to be a whole lot in that little box that I can muck with. I miss the good old days. All this computer crap in cars these days just makes thing that much more of a pain in the ***.

How much does a ccrm cost?
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Old 02-03-2013, 11:54 PM   #10
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I can ship you one for $80, it will take a couple weeks because I am in Canada. We had no CEL information and our scanner couldn't pick anything up but changing the CCRM fixed the issue. I have been rebuilding wrecked 99-04 Stangs for the last 10 years, the CCRM is my best educated guess.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:03 AM   #11
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I can ship you one for $80, it will take a couple weeks because I am in Canada. We had no CEL information and our scanner couldn't pick anything up but changing the CCRM fixed the issue. I have been rebuilding wrecked 99-04 Stangs for the last 10 years, the CCRM is my best educated guess.
I'm going to wait for my buddy to check it out. His equipment is far more capable than my sct tuner. I'm done thowing money at this thing and praying something works.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:57 AM   #12
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Ok, pulled everything off. The pack, wires, and pulled the plugs. Checked everything again. Triple checked all fuses. Still getting fuel. Still getting power to the pack, and the resistance on each bank of the pack is consistant. But no f**king spark. Tried 2 brand new Motorcraft packs, and MSD pack, and a pos BWD pack.

I insert key, turn to on position. Fuel pump primes. Turn key all the way and she just spins and spins. Theft light does not flash during this, so PATS isn't throwing a code. It's 2 am and I'm spent.

If anyone has any ideas please share! If you know someone who may know something, please refer them to this thread.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:46 AM   #13
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Problems got worse. Checked the diagnostic mode directly from the gauge cluster and got code D262. Going to look into that, but points toward bad PCM. Just called Ford, they want 895 bucks for one.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:59 PM   #14
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I would reverse all the mods you did before this problem started if you still have the oem pieces and see if maybe of them is causing it like back tracking your steps because you said it worked fine at one point before some of the replacements

---------- Post added at 01:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 PM ----------

That's probably stupid but at this point it's the only thing I can think of you alrwady covered all
Your other bases and it seems like you covered them rather thoroughly
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Old 02-04-2013, 02:50 PM   #15
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I would reverse all the mods you did before this problem started if you still have the oem pieces and see if maybe of them is causing it like back tracking your steps because you said it worked fine at one point before some of the replacements

---------- Post added at 01:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 PM ----------

That's probably stupid but at this point it's the only thing I can think of you alrwady covered all
Your other bases and it seems like you covered them rather thoroughly
No mods that would effect the motor were done when the problem happened. I replaced almost everything just trying to fix the issue. I did however return the tune back to the factory one, but no dice.

The car worked just fine when I drove home from work at 7:00am, when I woke up and went to leave for work at 2:00pm I started it, she idled really bad just like she was missing on a cylinder. After doing a quick check and trying to start again, no fire. Literally everything has been replaced except the PCM. But I'm still confused why I got the P0354 code.
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:24 PM   #16
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Messed with it some more. Still just spins. But everyone once and a while about 2-5 seconds after I stop spinning it over she will backfire. Can't wait to test it further tomorrow night. This is starting to piss me off
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:52 PM   #17
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If you need a PCM let me know, your car 5 speed or auto? You will still need someone to add your key to the PATS system in the PCM but I can sell you one waaaaay cheaper than $895!
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:32 AM   #18
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How much cheaper? AES will sell me a brand new one 400 shipped.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:10 AM   #19
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$150 shipped.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:21 AM   #20
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Cool. I just bought a cam sensor and will throw that in. If that doesn't work and my tech says the PCM is bad I will PM you.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:02 AM   #21
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Damnit, new Cam sensor in and no change. I have 8 hours to wait until my tech gets here, I'm going to go crazy waiting.

I am 90% sure it's the pcm. I'm getting an rpm reading, so the new crank sensor is good, as is the wiring between it and the pcm. I'm also getting a spark pulse from the pcm to the coil pack which is also new, so that wiring is good. I seem to have eliminated everything except the damn PCM. Which sucks because after getting a new PCM I still have to tow it to Ford to reprogram the PATS system for the new computer and cut me two new keys.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:55 AM   #22
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You shouldn't need to cut new keys, they should be able to add your existing ones to the new PCM. That's how I've done it in the past, have a cheap $100 eBay programmer that works great!
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:02 PM   #23
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I know, but I only have one key now and its in rough shape, so going to get two new ones.
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