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Old 11-19-2003, 06:12 PM   #1
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Sway bars

As I just run my first autoX event, I found out even with my mods, I have way to much body roll.

Suspensions mods I have done are, Eibach pro kit, and 94' gt take off rear sway bar.

I want to lower the car a bit more, its at almost 1.5" lowered, to reduce weight transfer during hard braking, but as of now my dad wont let me cut my springs

So I thought less body roll, during turns would help also. What im trying to figure out is how to increase the stiffness of the sway bars without adjusting the ratio of front bar to rear.

Currently I have a 25.4mm front and 24mm rear. But to my understanding the front bar is solid and the rear ba ris hollow. Im using that logic based on this site http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/sway2.htm

Does anyone know if all v6 sway bars, fonrt and rear, are solid? and all v8 bars, front and rear, are hollow?

If my thoughts are wrong about my front bar being solid, then all my numbers im figuring out are wrong.
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Old 11-19-2003, 06:26 PM   #2
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i hate linking to this site... but this thread has everything you could want to know about sway bars.

http://www.3.8mustang.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29792
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Old 11-19-2003, 07:09 PM   #3
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Most front sway bars are not solid because of the weight. I dont necessarily agree with everything Nikko says in the thread but it is basically good general information
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Old 11-19-2003, 07:19 PM   #4
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While is answers a lot of questions, some I didnt even think of yet. It doesnt answer this:
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Does anyone know if all v6 sway bars, fonrt and rear, are solid? and all v8 bars, front and rear, are hollow?

Also afer reading that, how stiff is to stiff? And I dont mean a rear or front kind of way, but if the bars are done together maintaing there front:back ratio.
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Old 11-19-2003, 07:23 PM   #5
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You could get yourself a Steeda heavy duty front sway bar, and a Steeda adjustable rear sway bar, I don't agree with much of anything that Nikko says, thats why I am a moderator here now and not still on 3.8. Another good way to go is a set of older model (pre independant rear suspension) Cobra sway bars, which is what I have on my GT.
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Old 11-19-2003, 07:30 PM   #6
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Yep what Rick said I have Cobra front and rear sway bars and my car corners like like a champ
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Old 11-19-2003, 07:52 PM   #7
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What year are cobra sways? I was doign some math and the ratio front bar to rear is 1.26 is on the 98 cobra. the 00' gt is about 1.77, and from what I figure my car is between 1.38-1.59.

What I figure is the closer to 1:1 ratio means a more neutral car, but from reading so much info, if you get to close you get snap oversteer. So I figure with the cobra being a track meant car, 1.26 is the closet ratio of front:rear bar you would want.

When you start to go look at the chart on the miracerros site, you can get sucked into figuring out why Ford did this or that. Wierd how they adjusted the new gts, to have less front and rear bars.
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Old 11-19-2003, 07:53 PM   #8
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i dont like nikko either, but some of that info is useful... and being that i dont know much about the suspension stuff, i just referred to that listen to what the guys on THIS site have to say... theyre cooler anyway lol
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Old 11-19-2003, 08:02 PM   #9
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well thanks Zim you are pretty cool yourself
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Old 11-19-2003, 08:38 PM   #10
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Well, we try to be cool here, lol. My cobra bars are not a matched set, I had a matched set but one of them was bent, they were from a 98, I couldnt' use the front bar so now I have a 98 cobra rear bar and a 95 cobra front bar on my 99 GT, didnt' have any luck finding another 98 front bar is all.
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Old 11-19-2003, 08:47 PM   #11
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Mine are either 97 or 98 Cobra swaybars
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Old 11-19-2003, 10:13 PM   #12
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Ok cool, im thinking the 98' cobra front and rear sway bars would work good. Next question is, where to get them????

Also side note, I was talking to my dad. He said upgrading my struts/shocks might be a better upgrade. The transfer of weight would be smoother for autox, and more controled. He said I should upgrade my suspension to complment each other. So mabye going overbored on sway bars, would not help as much as gettin new strusts/shocks. I was thinking my Eibach Pro Kit springs really arent that much stiffer though....

Just more food for thought Suspension is so cool.
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Old 11-19-2003, 10:17 PM   #13
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For my own eddification, how much would subframe connectors help him with roll and chassis flex?
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Old 11-19-2003, 10:42 PM   #14
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SFC mean everything for controlling chassis flex!! 8)
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Old 11-19-2003, 10:55 PM   #15
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sorry if this goes off-base. (If it does, delete this post ) How much difference do you notice with subrames? How much when on track? how much when on the street?
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Old 11-20-2003, 06:04 AM   #16
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I will be perfectly honest when I put on SFC's the chassis stiffened up considerably.
But I did also make the car more sensitive to the road conditions.
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Old 11-20-2003, 08:48 AM   #17
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I had them on my V6 for a long time, and loved them, they make the car feel so much more solid to me. So that is one of the first things I got on the GT. I didn't get crossbraces when I got them thinking I could add them later, nope, once they are welded in (steeda clones) you can't add cross braces. I do miss that. I might have them cut off later and upgrade to full length Global West, I think they would be worth the investment. I have never really raced, well, not on a track, and not in several decades, so I can't comment on that part, but it does stiffen the chassis and in my opinion improves your handling overall.
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Old 11-20-2003, 03:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
Ok cool, im thinking the 98' cobra front and rear sway bars would work good. Next question is, where to get them???
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Old 11-20-2003, 03:32 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeR.
Quote:
Ok cool, im thinking the 98' cobra front and rear sway bars would work good. Next question is, where to get them???
Terry at Midwest ped5stang@aol.com
This is where Rick and I shop or good used stuff. but you could check in the local salvage yards to
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Old 11-20-2003, 03:50 PM   #20
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Another place to check for used Cobra Sway bars is Ebaymotors.com, that is where I got the one I had on the front of my V6 stang. Sometimes you can find them there.
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Old 11-20-2003, 03:51 PM   #21
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On my car I've got a GT rear swaybar, ford C springs (650lb spring rate in the front and 200-300 progressive rate in the back), and that made enough difference for me to be able to run eith the bigger dogs at the autoX events I go to. When I welded on GT quadshocks that was a great help too. I get VERY little body roll. You won't eliminate any more body roll by cutting the springs though. What spring rate are the eibach's that you got?

Oh, and you don't want your roll center too low or the car gets squirlly as hell. I'd keep the springs as is and look into shocks quad or otherwise.
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Old 11-20-2003, 04:45 PM   #22
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Horse, why don't you have subframe connectors, isn't that allowed in your class?
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Old 11-20-2003, 09:46 PM   #23
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Im not sure if subframes are allowed, id have to check. Wierd you said check midwestmustangs, I just recieved a emial from him today.

My Eibachs are progressive 425-530 up front and 200-300 in back. A little softer than you. I was thinking cuttin them a lil to raise up the spring rate a bit, but have given up on that idea.

I want to try these stiffer sway bars, to see how they handle. And Horse what class are you runnin that your competive with just that stuff?? I thought you were stx, which in my case means im going up against wrxs, and sort.
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Old 11-20-2003, 10:01 PM   #24
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A fellow is selling a pair of Cobra R front Eibach's in our for sale section, wants 50 bucks for them, they are progressive, from like 500-800 I think.
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Old 01-04-2004, 02:40 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDonkey
sorry if this goes off-base. (If it does, delete this post ) How much difference do you notice with subrames? How much when on track? how much when on the street?
Turns it into a new car. I noticed the difference just rolling in my driveway
at 5mph.

Edit: and dealing with the original questions... steer away from cutting
your springs (with of course the ever popular exception of cutting of the
dead coil on the rear FMS C springs). Also, when you lower your car
beyond about 1.5" you start compromising suspension geometry. Camber
curve goes to hell and you need much stiffer springs to prevent massive
body roll. Too stiff of a swaybar can make you pick up a wheel too. A car
on 3 wheels has less traction than one on 4 (in general).
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Old 01-05-2004, 11:29 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeR.
Also side note, I was talking to my dad. He said upgrading my struts/shocks might be a better upgrade. The transfer of weight would be smoother for autox, and more controled. He said I should upgrade my suspension to complment each other. So mabye going overbored on sway bars, would not help as much as gettin new strusts/shocks.
Your dad is a smart man. I'd suggest listening to him.

As the author of the thread that was originally linked to in the beginning of this topic, I'd like to ask any of the naysayers here to show me any tidbit of misinformation or questionable fact in that thread. Overly large swaybars are a bandaid for more serious handling problems and actually reduce the level of ultimate grip in the vehicle.

As the saying goes, Tech talks, BS walks. I'd be happy to defend my position.

Regards,
Nick
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Old 01-05-2004, 11:49 AM   #27
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Well Hello Nick. Nice to see you pop in again. If you are referring to my post on this subject, I remember a debate awhile back on this subject on another forum. I dont think you need to defend anything. I said your linked thread was good general info. I do agree with the over large sway bars is not a good thing but I also dont think Cobra front and rear sway bars are overly large.
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