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Old 12-21-2014, 01:03 PM   #1
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Handling improvement

What does the most when it comes to handling and how can I improve on it a bit more?

I already have a GT rear sway bar
1.6" lower in the front, 2" lower in the back
KYB shocks in the rear
Newer struts

American muscle sells some interesting products but im not completely sure they are worth the price

Eibach (not sure how its spelled)
Front and rear sway bar kit
The front bar is 35mm
The rear bar is 24mm

Is this worth 400 dollars, do I get THAT much of a handling benefit from it?

SR performance strut tower brace
120 dollars

Does this tighten up the car enough to justify the price?

SR performance rear shock tower brace
80 dollars

Does this really do anything at all lol? I have never seen a car with this before....

Then there are aftermarket struts and what not.

I know these all increase handling but would I really see THAT much of an increase with them!?

Let me know your thoughts
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Old 12-21-2014, 01:06 PM   #2
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Handling is the major focus on my car.

Do you want a really nice handling car with quality parts, something that can be an Autocross competitor, or just something that handles better on normal roads? Also any budget?

Based on how you answer I can direct you which way to go first.


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Old 12-21-2014, 01:06 PM   #3
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Most people actually go the completely wrong way with these cars trying to get them to handle well.


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Old 12-21-2014, 01:08 PM   #4
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If you're looking for sway bars look for an adjustable one. As far as handling I'd go for Lower control arms, weld in Sub-frame connectors, and even a panhard in the rear that Maximum Motorsports makes your car will feel like a totally different car after just adding these 3 things.
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Old 12-21-2014, 01:40 PM   #5
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Pretty much the very first thing you need to do to these cars is get full length subframe connectors. Welded in ones specifically. Maximum Motorsports are what i got and will work for 99% of cars.

After that you need something to control the lateral movement of the car, this is either through a Panhard Bar or a Watts Link. A Panhard Bar will be fine for most people. A Watts Link is if you are really going hard at the suspension. This was one of the most noticeable differences i've felt from a suspension mod on my car.

Then Rear Lower Control Arms to help with wheel hop.

After that you want to eliminate bind in the rear control arms, you do this by converting to a 3 link set up. So either a PM3L (Poor Man's 3 Link) which is removing a single upper control arm and reinforcing the other one that is there. Or you can completely take both out and swap over to a Torque Arm, which is what i did. People make the mistake of upgrading both upper control arms, which severely increases bind and hinders cornering ability.

Haven't even touched the springs yet, after these mods is when i got my Coilovers, which made a great difference in how the car handles. I haven't tested it at an AutoX yet though, just mountain roads.


Most people only get springs, sway bars, and control arms, which helps a little bit. But it doesn't really fix the issue in your suspension, its more of a bandaid for people who want to "feel" like the car handles better. It doesn't actually handle much better.

At Autocrosses i'm now going against modded Evos, STIs, some of the lower Porsches and other cars, still stock sway bars. Those you only use to correct understeer or oversteer issues, they are not a stand alone mod to help handling, you get them to tie into your complete set up.

Every single one of my parts so far is Maximum Motorsports, they are more expensive, but the quality of them makes SR look like it was put together by middle school kids.
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Old 12-21-2014, 02:50 PM   #6
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On a scale of 1-10 how would you rate the the subframe connectors and panhard bar to improve your handling?

How much did it cost to weld in the subframe connectors from a shop?
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Old 12-21-2014, 05:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazen123 View Post
On a scale of 1-10 how would you rate the the subframe connectors and panhard bar to improve your handling?

How much did it cost to weld in the subframe connectors from a shop?
On a scale from 1-10 is kind of hard to say really. I'm having my subframe connectors and rear lower control arms put in in a few days. A shop really wouldn't charge to much possibly an hour of labor to weld them in so any where from 75-120$?

But when I installed my Panhard it was night and day different when going into a turn. The back end used to feel like it was floating and wanting to break loose. Not any more, now you can actually keep your foot on the gas and give it more now though the turn with confidence.
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Old 12-21-2014, 05:36 PM   #8
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Handling improvement

Subframe connectors are the basis. If you try to take a corner too hard without them you can twist the frame. It's something you NEED.

Mine were free to weld in, I had Tyoung68 do it lol

Panhard Bar definitely made a huge improvement though.

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Old 12-21-2014, 05:46 PM   #9
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Subframe connectors are the basis. If you try to take a corner too hard without them you can twist the frame. It's something you NEED.

Mine were free to weld in, I had Tyoung68 do it lol

Panhard Bar definitely made a huge improvement though.

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Hoping that when i add every thing that I have coming in it just gets even better

Braces on braces on braces

Also going to have my buddy weld in the pinch weld to frame brace in while the subframe connectors are being welded in along with the panhard and rear shock brace to be welded in the trunk.
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Old 12-21-2014, 05:48 PM   #10
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Look into Stiffler jacking rails and web brace.


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Old 12-21-2014, 06:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Look into Stiffler jacking rails and web brace.


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That just looks like over kill lol
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Old 12-21-2014, 06:07 PM   #12
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Yea most people won't need it


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Old 12-21-2014, 06:12 PM   #13
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I can kinda see the usefulness of the jacking rails.
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Old 12-21-2014, 06:14 PM   #14
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I can kinda see the usefulness of the jacking rails.

Yea I need them now. Can barely get my jack under it with the tire already on 2x4s lol


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Old 12-21-2014, 06:19 PM   #15
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Yea I need them now. Can barely get my jack under it with the tire already on 2x4s lol


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This is why I made stairs to drive on to jack it up basically have to drive onto a 4x4 now.
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Old 12-21-2014, 07:44 PM   #16
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If you want a well handling car your suspension needs to look like this.
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If it looks like that have fun annihilating Porsches in corners.



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Old 12-21-2014, 09:09 PM   #17
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I think Ill get the full length subframe connectors and bigger front and rear sway bars. Ive seen too many good reviews about night and day differences with some of the sway bar kits on AM. Also the full length subframe connectors (after researching) seem very important too. Thanks guys
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Old 12-22-2014, 12:27 AM   #18
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I think Ill get the full length subframe connectors and bigger front and rear sway bars. Ive seen too many good reviews about night and day differences with some of the sway bar kits on AM. Also the full length subframe connectors (after researching) seem very important too. Thanks guys

For subframe connectors look at either Maximum Motorsports full length ones or Steeda's. And as far as your sway bars on your car now they're fine. And at the price range of new ones you can get something that will give you better performance then new sway bars. (Hinting at a Watts link or Panhard here)


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Old 12-22-2014, 12:40 AM   #19
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Remember what i said before. A lot of people add sway bars and it "feels" like their car is handling better, its only a minor difference because the understeer/oversteer has changed. The issues these cars have the most is from all the lateral movement in the rear end and the 4 link set up creating bind.

The sway bars should only be changed to tailor the car to your driving style, that you can only really find out when you truly push the car into corners to its absolute max.
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Old 12-22-2014, 12:41 AM   #20
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I'm big into cornering and i'm still on stock sway bars, that should definitely be saying something.
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Old 12-22-2014, 12:50 AM   #21
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Remember what i said before. A lot of people add sway bars and it "feels" like their car is handling better, its only a minor difference because the understeer/oversteer has changed. The issues these cars have the most is from all the lateral movement in the rear end and the 4 link set up creating bind.

The sway bars should only be changed to tailor the car to your driving style, that you can only really find out when you truly push the car into corners to its absolute max.

Couldn't of said it better.


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Old 12-22-2014, 01:03 PM   #22
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OP-Sorry about the delay but It's looking like you got some killer help in here! Let me know if you're to have any questions and if you're planning on having an order placed soon shoot me a PM and I'll get you set up with our discount code if you don't have it!

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Old 12-22-2014, 09:24 PM   #23
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Oh wow, I see now lol. how much would a panhard bar cost? The only ones i saw were 600ish. the subframe connectors are cheap though. Also bigger sway bars dont just control under and oversteer, they literally keep it from swaying, hence the name. U gotta admit that hah! much less body roll with bigger sway bars

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OP-Sorry about the delay but It's looking like you got some killer help in here! Let me know if you're to have any questions and if you're planning on having an order placed soon shoot me a PM and I'll get you set up with our discount code if you don't have it!

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Thank you sir I will!
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Old 12-22-2014, 09:32 PM   #24
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Handling improvement

Sway bars do help a little with swaying, but not nearly as much as people think.

The champion in the Street Unlimited Autocross class this year just recently put in his sway bars. I would only worry about them as ways to correct understeer or oversteer, don't worry about them doing much else.

Also physical body roll is dealt with from the springs, common mistake people think. The harder you corner the more you will compress the springs being forced on, which means it dips down more, hence "body roll".

This is the Panhard bar I got. AM doesn't carry them.

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Old 12-22-2014, 09:36 PM   #25
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Handling improvement

Notice how long ago this pic was posted.
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And this is the outside of the car
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Take a look at the front passenger tire ^
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Old 12-22-2014, 11:11 PM   #26
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How is a panhard bar installed into the car? It obviously goes in the rear I see but where exactly?
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Old 12-22-2014, 11:15 PM   #27
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I found this on AM, itll fit my 6 right, the suspensions are the same
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Old 12-22-2014, 11:15 PM   #28
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The 2 U shaped parts you see on the chassis brace (black part) attaches to the frame. You drill 2 holes into the frame on each side and put in crush sleeves which strengthen it, then bolt the brace in.

Best to have one person hold the brace while another marks the holes to drill, and to bolt in while being held.


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Old 12-22-2014, 11:17 PM   #29
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And yes it fits the 6, not sure why they say GT, it fits any 99-04 with a solid axle. As well as 94-98, only difference for those are the shock mount, which is that smaller piece.


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Old 12-23-2014, 12:21 AM   #30
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Alright thanks for all the info and help man
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Old 12-23-2014, 12:55 AM   #31
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No problem. If you have any more questions later on you can always PM me.


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Old 12-23-2014, 06:30 PM   #32
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Soccerluvr knows what he's talking about btw


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Old 12-24-2014, 11:21 AM   #33
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Soccerluvr knows what he's talking about btw
^^^This!

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