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Old 06-11-2015, 09:42 PM   #1
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BBK shorties and 11mpg 3.8 Help!

I recently got a new pair of BBK Shorty Headers on my 2000 3.8. After the install I began to notice a dramatic increase in my fuel consumption.
I went from an average of 15-16 mpg on the street which is not great but I don't baby her next to any fart can! Consequently I understand that I will lose fuel economy. Prior to the headers I have had the following mods:
BBK CAI
True Dual Exhaust
An aggressive 91 tune
Just about everything else has been replaced on this car from the Rebuilt engine to the Rebuilt transmission. New 4.10 gears and limited slip, axles, bearings etc. From a new drive shaft to a new fuel pump and filter. And some other miscellaneous parts!
The headers were my next project.
Before the headers I got 15-16 mpg mixed and 21-25 on the freeway.
After the BBK Headers I did the math (143 miles to the tank/ 12.7 gallons) and fuel came out to be 11.26 mpg.
I originally got the headers to replace a leaky gasket on the original. Basically if the job has to get done do it right but since I'm in Cali I couldn't do the Long Tubes.
So...
Other than the crappy MPG I also got a code for P0411. Which turns out to be the Secondary AIR pump and its affiliates (diverter valve and Solenoid and PCV).
So...
After some observation I realized that two things happen:
If I baby it I should get approximately 14.33 MPG based off a quarter tank which I ran 43 miles and 3 gallons. (43/3=14.33)
If I don't baby it and drive normal I killed 1/8 of the tank in one take off?!
Lastly I was looking at the DTC in the Instrumental Cluster at the fuel trim and the fluctuation went from 82 to 20 and everything in between.
There I'm Done as you guys can tell and I'm Stumped please help.
PS I am $13000+ into my v6 and I am not going to get rid of it for New Edge 4.6.
I hope I can get some sort of clarity, I will repost all results.
Update: I'm going to add two videos of today's dyno pull and the numbers. For those that need a visual.
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Old 06-11-2015, 09:50 PM   #2
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Has stuff like the fuel filter been replaced and have you had injectors replaced or cleaned?
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Old 06-11-2015, 09:52 PM   #3
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I did both the Fuel filter and the injector myself but the problem came after the Headers. I could check both of them just incase something failed.
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Old 06-12-2015, 08:14 AM   #4
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o2 sensors old?
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Old 06-12-2015, 09:01 AM   #5
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I swapped my o2s back in december. I did have a stumble with them a month ago but I replaced the bank 2 sensor 2 and it was done no more problems.
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Old 06-12-2015, 11:31 AM   #6
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Do the BBK Headers need a tune?
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Old 06-12-2015, 01:33 PM   #7
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More Info

I'm adding my numbers and the video for those that need a visual. What I understood with the dyno pull is that I am running rich and have been for a while. I think that has to do with my last tune which was a generic tune from another speed shop in my area. But that doesn't answer of why the sudden drop of fuel economy. In addition as I felt on my last hard take off I have also lost horsepower the dyno graph shows that I have actually fell under the stock HP. Now if I had no mods whether little or not, that drop in power would not be absurd but I have multiple mods on the car.
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Old 06-12-2015, 01:55 PM   #8
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The Dyno Pull Graph

The Fuel to Air ratio are at Supercharger level
Here:
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:05 PM   #9
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Here is more information off my live data

My main concern after I reviewed my O2 sensors is with B1S2 % AND B2S2 % marked with N/A and 99.2. What does that mean?
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Old 06-18-2015, 06:56 PM   #10
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I will keep updating until I get to the source of the problem

After sitting in on Schrodingers Box youtube page I figured a couple of things out. I should first focus on the SHRTFT2(%) (Short Fuel Trim bank two or Driver side) because it is evident that I am running rich at 19.5 everything else as far as short ft 1 and long ft 1 and 2 are running within spec. That could be caused by a leak in the exhaust manifold on the driver side because it is only affecting one side. I'll keep everyone posted but I do need the suggestions. Thanks to baddbradd I relooked at the sensors for some answer and this came up thanks man.
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Old 06-18-2015, 10:20 PM   #11
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Here again

I thought that I should probably get a couple of looks in to the live data and something else came up. I am back to square one because of the new data.
The last frame shots came from an average day of driving I let it sit for a couple of minutes and I started the car and that is what I got.
The following frame shots are from my car when it sat all day. I set the key on the ON position and this is what I got.
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Old 06-18-2015, 10:26 PM   #12
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Last pictures

This is just after I turned the key. I tried to get it on an OL (Open Loop). I guess I jumped to conclusion. Anyone out there?
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Old 06-30-2015, 12:03 PM   #13
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This is really frustrating but I'll continue this expedition until I get an answer. I'm going to have the car looked at by a shop near by. I'm probably going to have him check all the vacuum pressure, fuel pressure and electrical. This should get me the proper diagnostic. I was going to go buy the tools to do it myself but I'm a long way of learning how to properly determining the specs. I'll keep everyone posted.

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Old 07-09-2015, 01:53 PM   #14
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Post Shop Diagnostic

I had an accredited local shop look at my 3.8. He initially did not want to hear my predetermined diagnostic but after reading between the lines he assured me that the shorties were not the culprit. Whether it was a leak or not the exhaust manifold could not cause this kind of condition. Which by the way undermines my research. I asked him to do a smoke test to check for any leaks and the result was conclusive the car has no leaks. He then went ahead and reassured that I have two options. Either I can take it to his go to guy which specializes on Fords or I can go to a speed shop to get it tuned. Since I had the car dynoed I went ahead and asked for a price and time frame. They told me $600 which includes the the handheld SCT tuner and a custom tune by them. Since I am on a budget for this month I figured that the best option was to have someone else check it out. The initial trouble shooting didn't cost me a dime, the shop waived the charges. I then took the car to the second shop and he basically said "The car has some modifications therefore I would not touch it." He explained to me that a speed shop can do that for me and it's a matter of waiting it out.
After all I will have to wait until August to get my baby back on the street.
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Old 07-09-2015, 10:08 PM   #15
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I wish I had an answer for ya... .. the scanner that is in your pics, what is it? Can it be used to alter the tune in any way? The only "mod" that should affect mileage would be the 410 gears...I have them and my egr is deleted and still average around 22 mpg....it does turn around 2700rpms at 70mph
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Old 07-10-2015, 01:05 AM   #16
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The hand held device is a generic scanner it works on all cars. I use it for check engine light and live data checks. I also own a Diablo sport tuner but my local speed shop only uses them for Dodge and Corvettes. Ironic that I bought my tuner at a Corvette dealer. Baddbradd it astonished me that you can get 22 mix that must be a result of more highway driving than city. Either I have a serious issue or you drive like a responsible adult. Regardless thanks for sticking around for the thread. I hope it helps others in the future. I will continue to post intelligent and articulate responses for this thread

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Old 07-11-2015, 09:35 PM   #17
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Looks like you have a exhaust leak, that would fool o2 sensor and richen up mixture to compensate
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Old 07-11-2015, 09:37 PM   #18
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That's what I thought but the local shop said I had no leak

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---------- Post added at 07:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 PM ----------

I should probably get a second opinion

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Old 07-12-2015, 08:04 PM   #19
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Was one who said no leak the one who did exhaust work,might explain
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Old 07-12-2015, 08:15 PM   #20
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No this was a separate shop

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Old 07-12-2015, 09:55 PM   #21
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Ok, can you change the tune back to stock?....u know you have 410 gears but you have a diablo....
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Old 07-12-2015, 09:57 PM   #22
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I have gave that some thought I'll do it tonight and let you guys know.

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Old 07-12-2015, 10:05 PM   #23
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The mods you have shouldn't have had a negative effect....the gears will reduce mileage a tad, but you you still hit 20mpg with your foot in it. ....save up and get a dyno tune
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Old 07-13-2015, 12:28 AM   #24
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A Dyno is a must for next month.

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Old 08-18-2015, 06:53 PM   #25
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I'm back and the news is not what I expected: initially I talked to the guys at the speed shop and they told me they would check and verify my fuel system. Well the system is fine and he assured me that it was all an issue with the computer. So here is my problem, now I believe they turned off my EGR system and the downstream cats. This of course is a big no no in California and this also means I can't get it "smogged." What I understood with their approach is we don't know the answer so we will go around it. On top of all of this, I felt the 3.8 was treated like a second class citizen because the guy forgot to put in the 4.10 gears in the tune. I think they rushed it out and charged me for the tune. I am going to have to wait to have the 3.8 re-inspected by them. Seriously, does anyone have any ideas? I am also going to be doing a new live data run and I will post the new Dyno numbers.
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Old 08-19-2015, 11:57 AM   #26
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Jesus man i hope they can get that re tuned soon. Both my v6 and my 04 GT get over 20mpg no issues even when I'm not behaving.
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Old 08-19-2015, 01:43 PM   #27
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I appreciate you guys for responding on the thread, and the those that have at least read through the thread I know it is long winded. The breakdown is this: this car is now going to my mom and I am planning to buy a 2014 5.0. This car needs to be complete, but not passing smog is not an option. I will post the Dyno and live data tomorrow at the latest. Thank you guys for sticking around.
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Old 08-19-2015, 06:29 PM   #28
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Update: The shop relooked at the car and they claimed that they are not a diagnostic shop. In the midst of it all, the whole point of taking to get tuned was to fine tune the vehicle after it was fixed.
Now as it sits the shop claims that the numbers off the live data are weird because they do not match the numbers off his Dyno.
So here are my options: either I go straight pipe no cats and a deleted EGR with “no smog” or I gut it out and have another shop look at it.
I need a hand here I don't know what to do, I am now $1450+ and I am fed up.
If you are in my area and you can fix it, let me know, 90706!
*Dyno sheet and live data tomorrow!
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Old 04-14-2016, 08:56 PM   #29
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The Problem is solved!

Short story
Secondary A.I.R. Injection Pump
The two downstream O2 sensors

Long Story
After it all I bought my new 2014 5.0 and I gave the new edge to my brother. He in return gave my mother his lancer. Now I still wanted to solve the problem and I found a shop that was willing to look at it. They asked me to take off any tune and they should be able to go to work. I removed the chip, and found out that my old tune was still on the car's programing (I could get into that later if someone wants to know). They look at it for a cost of $140. The initial diagnostic concluded that both downstream o2s were burnt out. I had replaced the o2s( all of them) about 6 months prior. With the o2s they also concluded that the smog pump was not working. I had also checked on that secondary pump and I had a positive result that stated that it worked. All in all that is all she needed. The over simplified explanation was that the smog pump was not working so that would cause the O2 sensor to burnout. The final price out the door for my brother's handed down Mustang was $952.92 plus $400 for new shocks and struts, the car still had the originals.
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Old 04-15-2016, 08:28 PM   #30
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Wow. So glad you got it repaired!
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