So 4.10's are no longer made - Mustang Evolution

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Old 01-27-2016, 11:42 AM   #1
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So 4.10's are no longer made

Ford Racing has stopped producing 4.10's for a 7.5" rear end. Unfortunately for me, the place I want my gears and limited-slip installed at won't let me bring my own parts in to have them installed. They did seem very knowledgeable about gear installs, but they'd want to order their own parts. The guys at the shop said they'd probably buy an Auburn LSD, which is good to hear and that Ford Racing makes a good ring and pinion, but they wouldn't be able to find any through a distributor that has FRPP 4.10's...it sucks because Summit Racing still has a few in stock and I got the FRPP 4.10's from them the other day and now I find out that the shop won't take 'em.

I jumped on the purchase because I really want the FR 4.10's lol. How do I go about telling this to the shop? BTW they were looking to charge me 1k for parts and labor. (Another shop said 450, but the dude that gave me the quote also insisted my sixxer had a limited-slip from the factory)
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The chargers are slugs lol
2001 3.8L - Cheap SR CAI, SF4/X4 w/ 91 Octane Bama Tuning, Pacesetter H-pipe and Borla Stingers, Auburn HP Limited-Slip Diff, FRPP 4.10 gears

Coming EVENTUALLY: BBK headers, Eibach Springs, FRPP Aluminum Driveshaft, Maximum Motorsports Caster Camber Plates
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Old 01-27-2016, 11:50 AM   #2
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You get a gt rear end, it will be cheeper,stronger, and you can do 2wheel burnounts out the box
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Old 01-27-2016, 12:40 PM   #3
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Good excuse to swap to a 8.8 from a GT as was already stated. The 7.5 is not worth your time or your money. For $1k... lol go find an 8.8 someone is selling with those gears already installed and just bolt it in yourself. You'll save a ton of $$$.


As for that shop. You need to find a new shop. $1k for gears is completely insanely ridiculous to the point of forehead vein level laughing and pointing at whoever it was that quoted you that price.


And if you REALLY don't want to do a 8.8 swap for whatever reason and you already have the 7.5 gears in hand... trust me there will be a shop that'll do them. Just make sure they do a good job. Hell, a Ford dealer will probably install them and warranty them if they are FRPP and you show them receipts that its all new.


edit: Also with FRPP gears there is no break in and if you hear any noises or whirring or anything and they tell you that its normal... no it isn't. Make them fix it on the spot.
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Old 01-27-2016, 01:06 PM   #4
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Good excuse to swap to a 8.8 from a GT as was already stated. The 7.5 is not worth your time or your money. For $1k... lol go find an 8.8 someone is selling with those gears already installed and just bolt it in yourself. You'll save a ton of $$$.


As for that shop. You need to find a new shop. $1k for gears is completely insanely ridiculous to the point of forehead vein level laughing and pointing at whoever it was that quoted you that price.


And if you REALLY don't want to do a 8.8 swap for whatever reason and you already have the 7.5 gears in hand... trust me there will be a shop that'll do them. Just make sure they do a good job. Hell, a Ford dealer will probably install them and warranty them if they are FRPP and you show them receipts that its all new.


edit: Also with FRPP gears there is no break in and if you hear any noises or whirring or anything and they tell you that its normal... no it isn't. Make them fix it on the spot.
Unfortunately there are not a lot of trashed/parted V8's around that I can pull a rear end from. I've looked around, and I think another shop is definitely my best bet (I guess you figure ~500 for the LSD, 180 for the ring and pinion and 320 for labor or something for the 1k quote? lol). Hopefully Lundstedt will be able to do the install with my parts. Also, I did not know about FRPP gears not needing a break-in, do I just need to do the heat cycle for the oil then?
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The chargers are slugs lol
2001 3.8L - Cheap SR CAI, SF4/X4 w/ 91 Octane Bama Tuning, Pacesetter H-pipe and Borla Stingers, Auburn HP Limited-Slip Diff, FRPP 4.10 gears

Coming EVENTUALLY: BBK headers, Eibach Springs, FRPP Aluminum Driveshaft, Maximum Motorsports Caster Camber Plates
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Old 01-27-2016, 01:24 PM   #5
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I wouldn't think 1000 is that bad if it includes gears/ install from a reputable shop.

A lot of shops require them obtain the parts for 2 reasons. One generally they get a discount and charge Msrp and also to ensure your not providing faulty parts and then blame it on labor.


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Old 01-27-2016, 01:50 PM   #6
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I wouldn't think 1000 is that bad if it includes gears/ install from a reputable shop.

A lot of shops require them obtain the parts for 2 reasons. One generally they get a discount and charge Msrp and also to ensure your not providing faulty parts and then blame it on labor.


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Yeah, they're fairly reputable. I'm still going to wait to hear from Lundstedt just to compare the prices and see if they let me use my parts. I understand the parts will not be warrantied though
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The chargers are slugs lol
2001 3.8L - Cheap SR CAI, SF4/X4 w/ 91 Octane Bama Tuning, Pacesetter H-pipe and Borla Stingers, Auburn HP Limited-Slip Diff, FRPP 4.10 gears

Coming EVENTUALLY: BBK headers, Eibach Springs, FRPP Aluminum Driveshaft, Maximum Motorsports Caster Camber Plates
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Old 01-27-2016, 02:23 PM   #7
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The thing is if there are issues it will become an argument of if the parts were defective to begin with or did improper installation from the shop cause damage to the parts. It's not always easy to separate a warranty on the parts vs labor which is why a lot of shops don't want to deal with it and take 100% control over parts and labor.


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Old 01-28-2016, 05:50 PM   #8
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For $600 you can get an entire 8.8 rear end including brakes and control arms...check ebay. Why would you dump money into a 7.5"?
2005 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 Ford Mustang GT 5 0 Coyote Rear Axle 4 10 8 8 End | eBay
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Old 01-29-2016, 03:49 PM   #9
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Reading thru this thread. If I were you, I would pass on both of those shops.

As Starz said the reason the first shop won't allow "outside" parts is to control the amount of cheap crap people bring in and want installed. Then when it doesn't work the customer immediately blames the shop. Sometimes it's the parts, sometimes it's the shop. Either way it's much less headache for the shop to source parts and only install them.

That being said they are probably marking up the parts they supply for installs. $1000 is pretty high for just a gear/tlok install. You honestly don't need an Auburn, but I know the $200 FRPP 7.5" tloks are no longer made, so you might be screwed into paying double for a differential.

The second shop doesn't seem like they are very competent. Maybe the guy is confusing the older v6's with the +2011's that have limited slip from the factory, but either way it just seems like you're asking for an improper install and a battle afterwards to get it right.

I'm assuming Lundstedt is a Ford dealer. I would ask them if they will do installs with non FRPP parts. One of the Ford dealers near me no longer does as they got burnt. (Reasons I explained above). You might get lucky and they will install non FRPP but will not warranty parts/labor.

I agree with others, for the money you can get a 8.8" rear shipped and be better off.
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Old 01-29-2016, 04:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
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I'm assuming Lundstedt is a Ford dealer. I would ask them if they will do installs with non FRPP parts. One of the Ford dealers near me no longer does as they got burnt. (Reasons I explained above). You might get lucky and they will install non FRPP but will not warranty parts/labor.

I agree with others, for the money you can get a 8.8" rear shipped and be better off.
Thanks for the input, SonicPony, Lundstedt is just a reputable auto shop in town, not too sure if they're in any way associated with Ford. I'm just still debating the route I'm gonna take for this
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The chargers are slugs lol
2001 3.8L - Cheap SR CAI, SF4/X4 w/ 91 Octane Bama Tuning, Pacesetter H-pipe and Borla Stingers, Auburn HP Limited-Slip Diff, FRPP 4.10 gears

Coming EVENTUALLY: BBK headers, Eibach Springs, FRPP Aluminum Driveshaft, Maximum Motorsports Caster Camber Plates
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Old 01-29-2016, 04:50 PM   #11
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The 8.8 bolts right in. I know it might not be what you want to hear but the person trying to make the 7.5 into a good rear is like the kid in grade school eating paste...
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Old 01-29-2016, 05:21 PM   #12
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The 8.8 bolts right in. I know it might not be what you want to hear but the person trying to make the 7.5 into a good rear is like the kid in grade school eating paste...
...Are you saying I should stop eating paste?


In all seriousness, aside from the fact that it bolts right up and its higher tolerance for power, what would be the benefit over brand new parts that could be warrantied by a shop? I'm not going to do FI, so the stock 7.5" could handle it, I believe. Wouldn't the 8.8" be a bit weightier as well?

I appreciate the help, you guys
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The chargers are slugs lol
2001 3.8L - Cheap SR CAI, SF4/X4 w/ 91 Octane Bama Tuning, Pacesetter H-pipe and Borla Stingers, Auburn HP Limited-Slip Diff, FRPP 4.10 gears

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Old 01-29-2016, 05:26 PM   #13
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Price, ability to install yourself in your driveway if you have tools and if you ever DO want more power down the road you have a solid foundation.

As for the paste... well as long as you don't have to strain too much you do you lol.
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Old 01-29-2016, 07:47 PM   #14
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If this were 10 years ago and you had no plans other than bolt ons I'd say go for the 7.5".
Shop labor and 7.5" parts were cheaper and the 8.8's were in high demand, hence more expensive as the Cobra guys were swapping them in for track duty in place of the IRS.

One option would be a rear from a 94-98 v8, they are ~1.5" narrower but some fat tires or wheel spacers would fix that. The older explorers/rangers had 8.8" but you would have to do some work to get them to accept coils.
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Old 01-29-2016, 07:52 PM   #15
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But do remember Induven, we're just suggesting what would make the most sense to us.

Despite what I said in the last post. It's not easy to find an 8.8" in some places and paying freight on one does get pricey. So if you are dead set on getting gears and a tlok on your car and don't want to wait then do it. You have the exhaust and tune mods done so the gears and tlok will make definitely wake the car up compared to stock.

If you do plan on staying N/A as 98.9% of 3.8 owners do you'll be fine. I do stress the importance of having a good shop do the install though. Nothing worse than having gear meshing problems and having to fight with the shop to get it corrected. There is another member in the +2011 v6 section going thru just that.
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Old 01-30-2016, 12:40 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Price, ability to install yourself in your driveway if you have tools and if you ever DO want more power down the road you have a solid foundation.

As for the paste... well as long as you don't have to strain too much you do you lol.
Fair enough, I do plan on having the car for a while, after all.

And good, no man steps on my toes about paste consumption haha
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The chargers are slugs lol
2001 3.8L - Cheap SR CAI, SF4/X4 w/ 91 Octane Bama Tuning, Pacesetter H-pipe and Borla Stingers, Auburn HP Limited-Slip Diff, FRPP 4.10 gears

Coming EVENTUALLY: BBK headers, Eibach Springs, FRPP Aluminum Driveshaft, Maximum Motorsports Caster Camber Plates
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Old 01-30-2016, 07:37 AM   #17
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you can still get 4.10 for the 7.5 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mgr-f75-410/overview/ but is for sure not worth the cost since you will still have a small axle weak unit under the car, do the swap to a 8.8 and be forever happy you did just like I was with my blown 07 v6
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Old 01-30-2016, 02:20 PM   #18
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you can still get 4.10 for the 7.5 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mgr-f75-410/overview/ but is for sure not worth the cost since you will still have a small axle weak unit under the car, do the swap to a 8.8 and be forever happy you did just like I was with my blown 07 v6
Yeah, that is where I managed to find them from. I thought I mentioned it, but I guess not.
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The chargers are slugs lol
2001 3.8L - Cheap SR CAI, SF4/X4 w/ 91 Octane Bama Tuning, Pacesetter H-pipe and Borla Stingers, Auburn HP Limited-Slip Diff, FRPP 4.10 gears

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Old 02-09-2016, 05:05 PM   #19
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First off, here's the FRPP 4.10's for a 7.5" rear for anybody that would want them: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fm...5410/overview/

Anyways, I went back to the place again, and I told the same guy I talked to last time that the FRPP 4.10's are no longer made for my car. He first said "Probably because nobody wanted them" Then he said "I can put them in, but it'll cost you more when you don't like them and you want me to change them out". First off, okay, no need to be a jerk about it. Secondly, he mentioned a carrier type for the gears? Like 3 and 4 or something. Does he just mean the differential housing or what?

How would I know if the gears I got would work with the carrier? I mean, they're intended for a 99-04 7.5" rear, so I see no reason why it wouldn't fit, but all right. The guy also said I'd rev at around 3000 RPM on the highway and that it would cost about 1400.

Ugh, what a pain in the *** this is turning out to be, and I haven't even done anything yet.
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The chargers are slugs lol
2001 3.8L - Cheap SR CAI, SF4/X4 w/ 91 Octane Bama Tuning, Pacesetter H-pipe and Borla Stingers, Auburn HP Limited-Slip Diff, FRPP 4.10 gears

Coming EVENTUALLY: BBK headers, Eibach Springs, FRPP Aluminum Driveshaft, Maximum Motorsports Caster Camber Plates
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Old 02-11-2016, 02:10 PM   #20
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Dropping an 8.8" in is sounding better and better...

Seriously though, eff that guy and everything he told you. If he offered to do the install for free I'd tell him to pound sand after an attitude like that. And $1400 is ridiculous, even with all parts included.

I don't know why he's worried about carrier type. As long as it's a 7.5" carrier (or differential) for a 7.5" mustang rear you will be fine. Aside from a used unit from a ranger, mustang etc. the Auburn is really the only option on the market today.

What rpms you will be turning at highway speeds (55-70) depend on transmission final drive ratios, the hypoid gear ratio and rear tire being used. That said I highly doubt you'll be at or above 3k rpms. He's full of sh*t.
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Old 02-11-2016, 02:48 PM   #21
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Dropping an 8.8" in is sounding better and better...

Seriously though, eff that guy and everything he told you. If he offered to do the install for free I'd tell him to pound sand after an attitude like that. And $1400 is ridiculous, even with all parts included.

I don't know why he's worried about carrier type. As long as it's a 7.5" carrier (or differential) for a 7.5" mustang rear you will be fine. Aside from a used unit from a ranger, mustang etc. the Auburn is really the only option on the market today.

What rpms you will be turning at highway speeds (55-70) depend on transmission final drive ratios, the hypoid gear ratio and rear tire being used. That said I highly doubt you'll be at or above 3k rpms. He's full of sh*t.
Thank you, I was worried about the carrier type. I didn't realize he meant whether or not it was intended for the 7.5" diff, of course I bought gears for the differential I plan to put in there, duh. What a jackass the dude was though. If I didn't know better, I'd say it he was just trying to daunt me into not doing the install at all.

On a different note, this is the first I'm hearing about a hypoid gear, what is it?
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The chargers are slugs lol
2001 3.8L - Cheap SR CAI, SF4/X4 w/ 91 Octane Bama Tuning, Pacesetter H-pipe and Borla Stingers, Auburn HP Limited-Slip Diff, FRPP 4.10 gears

Coming EVENTUALLY: BBK headers, Eibach Springs, FRPP Aluminum Driveshaft, Maximum Motorsports Caster Camber Plates
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Old 02-11-2016, 03:07 PM   #22
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Thank you, I was worried about the carrier type. I didn't realize he meant whether or not it was intended for the 7.5" diff, of course I bought gears for the differential I plan to put in there, duh. What a jackass the dude was though. If I didn't know better, I'd say it he was just trying to daunt me into not doing the install at all.

On a different note, this is the first I'm hearing about a hypoid gear, what is it?
Yah I would certainly have the install done else where. My biggest concern is how he is persuading you not to do the install. His attitude tells me that he doesn't want to do the install, and if he did, he wouldn't care if it was done correctly, simply because he didn't advise it to begin with.
And didn't he quote you ~$1000 for the complete swap before? Now it's $1400!

Oh and hypoid is just another term for spiral bevel, which is the type of gear used in the rear end.
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Old 02-11-2016, 03:55 PM   #23
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Yah I would certainly have the install done else where. My biggest concern is how he is persuading you not to do the install. His attitude tells me that he doesn't want to do the install, and if he did, he wouldn't care if it was done correctly, simply because he didn't advise it to begin with.
And didn't he quote you ~$1000 for the complete swap before? Now it's $1400!

Oh and hypoid is just another term for spiral bevel, which is the type of gear used in the rear end.
Yeah, he did say around 1000 the first time, parts and labor. Now it's 1400 labor. I'm just going to have my local Ford guys do it, because they said they'd use my parts, and warranty the labor. Good enough for me
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The chargers are slugs lol
2001 3.8L - Cheap SR CAI, SF4/X4 w/ 91 Octane Bama Tuning, Pacesetter H-pipe and Borla Stingers, Auburn HP Limited-Slip Diff, FRPP 4.10 gears

Coming EVENTUALLY: BBK headers, Eibach Springs, FRPP Aluminum Driveshaft, Maximum Motorsports Caster Camber Plates
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Old 02-11-2016, 05:08 PM   #24
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That's what I would do man. I think you'll be a lot happier getting it done there. Be sure to get the warranty coverage written on paper. It's for your own benefit.

Depending on your mileage it would be worth it to get a bearing rebuild kit if you haven't already. You'll definitely enjoy the gears after they're in, one of the better mods you can do on the 3.8's. Let us know how the install went!
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Old 02-12-2016, 04:12 AM   #25
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Yeah, he did say around 1000 the first time, parts and labor. Now it's 1400 labor. I'm just going to have my local Ford guys do it, because they said they'd use my parts, and warranty the labor. Good enough for me
That guy sounds like a jackass. He raised the price so you would back out from doing it.

If you feel like driving I would recommend Stang Auto Tech in Broomfield, they aren't a mustang shop, but they do some good work. A tech there named Mike installed my old 4.10s for me about 2 years ago and I never had a problem with them.
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Old 02-12-2016, 06:22 AM   #26
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The guy also said I'd rev at around 3000 RPM
This guy is an idiot. Assuming you have the same final drive ratio as a GT you will be turning 2500rpm at 75mph in 5th with a factory size tire
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Old 02-12-2016, 07:54 AM   #27
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Ge a new shop. My guy lets me order whatever and have it delivered there.
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Old 02-12-2016, 10:56 AM   #28
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This guy is an idiot. Assuming you have the same final drive ratio as a GT you will be turning 2500rpm at 75mph in 5th with a factory size tire
Currently in 4th, I turn about 2500 at 85 mph, unless something's reading something wrong
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Old 02-12-2016, 03:40 PM   #29
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Currently in 4th, I turn about 2500 at 85 mph, unless something's reading something wrong
That should be about right for stock gears.
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:44 AM   #30
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That should be about right for stock gears.
Whoops, I meant in 5th, that's what I have. If that were 4th it would be better
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The chargers are slugs lol
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Coming EVENTUALLY: BBK headers, Eibach Springs, FRPP Aluminum Driveshaft, Maximum Motorsports Caster Camber Plates
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Old 02-13-2016, 11:23 AM   #31
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Whoops, I meant in 5th, that's what I have. If that were 4th it would be better
Funny, I read 5th in my own head anyways.
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