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Old 02-06-2004, 06:08 PM   #1
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The Ram Air Effect Myth.

http://www.vetteguru.com/ramair/

Ram Air is just a another way to get air to the filter. The idea was that it acutally "rams" more air into the engine is just that, an idea. It does nothing more than make air available to the intake. It's a sort of like a glorified CAI.

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Old 02-06-2004, 06:16 PM   #2
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I never did think ram air worked as good as people say it does.
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Old 02-07-2004, 04:24 PM   #3
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It does work once you get to some speed like on a highway up but in city driving wont help a bit. And on a 1/8 dragstrip the usefullness of it wont be there but on a 1/4 mile you would see some advantage but it will be small
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Old 02-07-2004, 04:33 PM   #4
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Yea, 70 MPH. Kinda like the effectiness of a spoiler.
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Old 02-07-2004, 07:59 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom
Yea, 70 MPH. Kinda like the effectiness of a spoiler.
very few spoilers ever do anything at any speed.
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Old 02-07-2004, 08:05 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangin99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom
Yea, 70 MPH. Kinda like the effectiness of a spoiler.
very few spoilers ever do anything at any speed.
you are referring to street cars I hope. Because on tracks spoilers do preform a function of supply down draft on cars!!!!
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Old 02-07-2004, 08:51 PM   #7
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He better have.
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Old 02-08-2004, 04:28 AM   #8
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I'd suggest reading up on the Baumann effect, boundary layers and NACA's (Nasa's predecessor) investigations into ram air effects.

Ram air does have an effect IF the proper scoop design is used, none of which were used in the cited article. Of course sufficient road speed is needed and it's usually legal highway speeds or better.

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Old 02-08-2004, 10:34 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Dude
Quote:
Originally Posted by stangin99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom
Yea, 70 MPH. Kinda like the effectiness of a spoiler.
very few spoilers ever do anything at any speed.
you are referring to street cars I hope. Because on tracks spoilers do preform a function of supply down draft on cars!!!!
well duh.

slapping on any spoiler to any car wont do squat. You need a windtunnel and some adjustability to get anything from a spoiler.
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Old 02-08-2004, 03:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
IF the proper scoop design
Then the word money come into play.
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Old 02-08-2004, 04:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangin99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Dude
Quote:
Originally Posted by stangin99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom
Yea, 70 MPH. Kinda like the effectiness of a spoiler.
very few spoilers ever do anything at any speed.
you are referring to street cars I hope. Because on tracks spoilers do preform a function of supply down draft on cars!!!!
well duh.

slapping on any spoiler to any car wont do squat. You need a windtunnel and some adjustability to get anything from a spoiler.
Pleas do not DUH me

The fact is you dont need wind tunnel test with directional pressure sensitive tape and a few runs you can determine effectiveness. The need for adjustabbility is not necessary in a street car. Given the known limits of a car and the condition it will be driven you can make a permanent spoiler do all you want.
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Old 02-08-2004, 09:02 PM   #12
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ding ding ding we have a winner!

:biglaugh:
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Old 02-08-2004, 10:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom
Quote:
IF the proper scoop design
Then the word money come into play.
Not at all, unless you want to spend money frivolously. Research a bit will save lots of money.

Believe it or not those big assed scoops used on drag cars are that way for a reason.

As air flows over the car the layer closest to the body, say about 1/2" thick, is very turbulent. So you have to raise the lowest point of the scoop opening above it.

You then form the rest of the scoop to funnel the high velocity, low pressure air into a convergent path that ends up feeding the intake higher pressure, lower velocity air. Exactly as the guru claimed needed doing. Problem is that none of the factory cars cited do that with thier scoops. That doesn't mean ram air doesn't work, it just means the designs cited are not useful in that application.

That is not to say the design is flawed, it's not, it the application that is wrong. The low drag ducted intakes used on the Firebird and such work great, on a fighter plane where the lowered drag of the ducted scoop far outweighs the loss of ram air effect, but are not appropriate on a low speed vehicle such as a car and I don't care how fast your Mustang is it isn't faster than a P51 Mustang .

Ram air works, if done right. The examples this guru used are not proof that ram air doesn't work, but rather that the particular examples chosen support a preformed theory of his.

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Old 02-08-2004, 10:44 PM   #14
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So does the 03 Mach 1 Ram Air scoop work? What about the 03 GT scoop?
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Old 02-08-2004, 10:56 PM   #15
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The Mach 1 looks like it might work properly but might be a bit too small for much of an effect and it might not have the opening up high enough to clear that turbulent air layer, I haven't looked at it up close only pictures.

The GT's looks doubtful, it's lower opening of the scoop is right in the turbulent layer or air that hugs the body.

One other consideration is that you have to seal the scoop so that all the air flowing into it goes into the engine, the Mach 1 looks like it's sealed up properly. The GT's intake tract doesn't even look to be connected to the scoop at all, it appears to be purely cosmetic.

The problem with using a scoop big enough for ram air to work is that the drag goes up, same as the fighter plane example I mentioned. Pro stock racers don't care about that as the benefit of the scoop outweights the drag. In a street car that drag is there all the time, even when the scoop isn't "helping". Though the drag is less at slower speeds. So in a street car where CAFE standards have to be met you won't see a ram air scoop that is big enough to provide a substantial benefit unless you add one yourself.

So, while the Mach 1 scoop looks to be the right design, it's probably too small to provide much ram air effect.

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Old 01-12-2007, 11:12 PM   #16
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Re: The Ram Air Effect Myth.

if pressure and volume is incressed even by a small amount at the throttle plate it would have to increase volumetric efficiey "do we have a spell checker" of the engine and as speed incressed pressure and volume should incress if it is scooping in the air as it should . and for spoilers my stock spoiler on my 79 camaro made it much more stable at 100 mph then my friends 79 camaro that didnt come with a spoiler.
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Old 01-12-2007, 11:18 PM   #17
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Re: The Ram Air Effect Myth.

efficiency (that's about all I have to contribute to this thread)
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Old 01-12-2007, 11:22 PM   #18
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Cool Re: The Ram Air Effect Myth.

Thanks
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Old 01-12-2007, 11:55 PM   #19
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Re: The Ram Air Effect Myth.

i went to flight school....i have text books in my closet that say most of those yahoos dont know crap about aerodynamics. however there r sum people here dat do know there ****. i am a firm believer in aerodynamics, ram air isnt cost effective to me cause i dont drive my car dat fast dat often for it to b worth the expense...a friend of mine disassembled his passenger side headlight to make a ram air scoop on his stang....wtf!!!he says it helps....i dont own a windtunnel so i keep my mouth shut..hell maybe it does
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Old 01-13-2007, 06:35 PM   #20
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Re: The Ram Air Effect Myth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Dude View Post
It does work once you get to some speed like on a highway up but in city driving wont help a bit. And on a 1/8 dragstrip the usefullness of it wont be there but on a 1/4 mile you would see some advantage but it will be small

Removing the headlight on the regal gains me, repeatable... 1 MPH/ 2 tenths when its warmer outside, half a MPH/1 tenth when its cold outside (guess when its cold there's more air available anyhow)

I don't think its entirely a myth, anything that allows your engine to breathe more air is a good thing.. (unless it can suck up water/etc)


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Old 01-13-2007, 08:13 PM   #21
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Re: The Ram Air Effect Myth.

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Removing the headlight on the regal gains me, repeatable... 1 MPH/ 2 tenths when its warmer outside, half a MPH/1 tenth when its cold outside (guess when its cold there's more air available anyhow)

I don't think its entirely a myth, anything that allows your engine to breathe more air is a good thing.. (unless it can suck up water/etc)


actualy u can squeze more oxygen molecules together in a given space with cold air....warmer air- the o2 molecules push away from each other...long story short is that you can squeze more oxygen into your cylinders when it is 20 degree outside than when it is 85 degrees...hence the saying "cold dense air equals horsepower" so yes technicaly your car has a lil more ooomph when it is cold out.
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Old 01-13-2007, 11:38 PM   #22
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Re: The Ram Air Effect Myth.

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actualy u can squeze more oxygen molecules together in a given space with cold air....warmer air- the o2 molecules push away from each other...long story short is that you can squeze more oxygen into your cylinders when it is 20 degree outside than when it is 85 degrees...hence the saying "cold dense air equals horsepower" so yes technicaly your car has a lil more ooomph when it is cold out.
not what I was saying, that much I knew (no offense, just trying to make my post clear) I was saying that with the headlight out in warm weather.. made a bigger difference than having the headlight out in cold weather
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Old 01-14-2007, 09:41 AM   #23
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Re: The Ram Air Effect Myth.

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not what I was saying, that much I knew (no offense, just trying to make my post clear) I was saying that with the headlight out in warm weather.. made a bigger difference than having the headlight out in cold weather
u have to excuse me...im not very bright...but i play a smart person on television...lol
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Old 01-14-2007, 06:41 PM   #24
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Re: The Ram Air Effect Myth.

Not a problem!
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Old 01-14-2007, 06:44 PM   #25
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Re: The Ram Air Effect Myth.

I guess then I will have to rethink my Yugo build man I was gonna do a bad ram air hood on her
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Old 01-15-2007, 10:02 AM   #26
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Re: The Ram Air Effect Myth.

I Know A Guy That Put Nos On His Yugo
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Old 01-15-2007, 12:22 PM   #27
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Re: The Ram Air Effect Myth.

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I Know A Guy That Put Nos On His Yugo
How long did it last?
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:08 PM   #28
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How long did it last?
HE BLEW THE MOTOR THE VERY FIRST TIME HE USED IT....I CANT REMEMBER WUT HORSEPOWER SHOT HE USED THOUGH.
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:02 PM   #29
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Re: The Ram Air Effect Myth.

Thats what I figured.
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Old 01-15-2007, 10:08 PM   #30
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Re: The Ram Air Effect Myth.

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Thats what I figured.
i think he was one of those power idiots....he probably threw 150 shot on it or sumthin. i bet u could put on a 50 shot wet kit on one and get a couple of passes before u shatter the pistons.......kik'n it up to a whopp'n 118hp...im talk'n trash
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Old 01-16-2007, 11:36 AM   #31
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Re: The Ram Air Effect Myth.

if a lawn mower can take a 50 well a Yugo might be able to...
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Old 01-16-2007, 04:57 PM   #32
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Re: The Ram Air Effect Myth.

i say we try it
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Old 01-16-2007, 06:00 PM   #33
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Re: The Ram Air Effect Myth.

I say we start a MEBDRA

Mustang Evolution Budget Drag Racing Association...

get one of those nitrous in a bag kits, and when one car blows up just swap it over..

Check to see how many cars can take how much spray before popping.. you know it'd be bad-*** getting a beat up 94ish taurus... running a 150 shot down the track... or a tempo... or an aerostar...
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Old 01-16-2007, 07:02 PM   #34
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Re: The Ram Air Effect Myth.

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I say we start a MEBDRA

Mustang Evolution Budget Drag Racing Association...

get one of those nitrous in a bag kits, and when one car blows up just swap it over..

Check to see how many cars can take how much spray before popping.. you know it'd be bad-*** getting a beat up 94ish taurus... running a 150 shot down the track... or a tempo... or an aerostar...
and where r u get'n this magic money budget from?...im way too selfish for that, dats money outa my stang budget...lol...it sounds good...but get'n enough people to commit funds is another story......but if u r just refering to our make believe world here on da net.....i say hell yea, lets gitter done!!!
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Old 01-16-2007, 08:03 PM   #35
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Re: The Ram Air Effect Myth.

well I know someone with this 'nitrous in a bag' kit selling it for $600... it'd be a worthy investment

Beaters in running shape can be found for $50-$100

and if we win vs ricers at the track we can recoup all of that with a nice strong block, say... a 2.3 rustang or something
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