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Old 03-07-2004, 02:35 PM   #1
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Building a engine that is able to take a turbo.

Let's say I was to build a 94-98 V6 to take a fair amount of boost, lets say around 20PSI.

What all would it take and how much money are we looking at just to build the complete engine. I wanna have it built and have time to break it in before adding the boost.

So take me through and tell me what I would need. Let's start with the block because that's where all my money is probally gonna end up at first.
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Old 03-07-2004, 06:54 PM   #2
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I'm kinda doing the same thing to a 2001 engine

I'm planning on running around 20 psi from a procharger. I bought a used block that was in a crashed car, it was $500 on ebay, and about 170 to ship it half way across the country. I took it apart fairly easy, the actual hard part is getting it off the truck, on the ground, then back up onto a engine stand when its partially taken apart. I've only spend around $150 in tools for taking it apart (caliper (not needed yet), 90 piece socket wrench set). I'm getting 8.5 CR ross pistons, eagle rods, both forged, all the fuel upgrades, ported everything, new cam, and big valve heads for probably upwards of $3500 from RPM-mustangs.com. After I get it all, im' going to install it myself to save on labor. On tob of that stuff, I got a larger (70mm) throttle body from bbk for around $250 I think, and I need a spec clutch (stage III) for around $300 for when I balance it, and to take the power of the new engine + supercharger. I'll probably get an aluminum flywheel since i'm spending a ton of money anyway. I also got a 4.2 crank for about $200 from fordparts.com so you can either stroke it, or get a supercoupe crank, or keep your stock one. So i'm spending upwards of $4000 just for that, then the supercharger will hopefully go on in a year.

I'm shooting for 400ft/lbs of torque on 91 octane, and you may have a different goal. In order to just have a stronger engine, You would probably only need the forged stuff, and a girdle for the main caps, depending on the year of your car. You might as well get a cam to take advantage of the blower. The one thing I need to know is if I should get the engine dyno-tuned right after I build it and install it, or wait until I break it in. The reason I wonder is because during the dyno, they rev it really high, and I don't know if that's good on a engine that hasn't been broken in.

Thats a lot of general info, most likely some more experienced people will add to it, or correct me. Hope it helps
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Old 03-07-2004, 07:56 PM   #3
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It's a 98. Corey said something that it has the same bottom end as the 99 V6.

It's the question on the crank. What would be stronger? Supercoupe or what? My plan is to build a streetable V6 here. Don't wanna end up like Dan.
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Old 03-07-2004, 07:58 PM   #4
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Supercoupe is stronger, it was built to handle boost, I think the walls on it are bigger. not to sure.
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Old 03-07-2004, 08:01 PM   #5
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Well, should I just steal the internals of a supercoupe and but them in the 98 block?
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Old 03-07-2004, 08:02 PM   #6
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no if your going to go to that much trouble of replacing internals get forged
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Old 03-07-2004, 08:14 PM   #7
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yea with forged internals you can run higher boost, I am getting H/C/I for now, and then Ill worry bout the rest when I get more money
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Old 03-07-2004, 08:39 PM   #8
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please dont run 20 PSI on a v6 with out forged pistons.
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Old 03-07-2004, 08:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
please dont run 20 PSI on a v6 with out forged pistons.
REALLY?

I'm not that stupid.
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Old 03-07-2004, 08:47 PM   #10
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from talking with my machine shop friend that builds motors, a forged crank isn't really a priority on most motors... the two things that will destroy one is load and rpm. unless you're wanting a high revver, or make tons of boost, it's not neccessary. the 4.2 cranks are pretty massive.
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Old 03-07-2004, 08:52 PM   #11
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Where it redlines right now, 5,150, is fine for me.

So I need forged rods and pistons then. Right?
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Old 03-08-2004, 12:43 AM   #12
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I'll be the first to admit my ignorance in regads to Ford specific information, but I do have turbo experience.

20 psi of boost on stock internals isn't unreasonable. I've done it with my turbo Plymouth Voyager and the key to sucessfully doing it is twofold. Intercooler and fuel. Both of which will keep detonation from occuring. Detonate at 20 psi of boost and your engine will fail.

The weakest link is what will fail. If you have stock internals it's usually the stock cast piston that will fail first. If you upgrade to forged then something else will fail. The big end of the rod will get hammered out of shape or the rod bearing will get squished and lose it's clearances. Ever see a rod bearing hammered flat as paper by a detonating turbo motor? I have.

Once you get the shortblock squared away then the headgaskets will fail, which is what I would rather have fail if I had a choice.

If you want to build a motor to handle 20 psi of boost RELIABLY you gott do a lot to it. Forged internals is a start. O ringed headgaskets, head studs, intercooling, and most importantly a computer that is PROPERLY tuned to the new engine setup, someone mail ordering a chip ain't gonna cut it, regardless of claims. Invest in a Tweecer unit and several hours of chassis dyno time.

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Old 03-08-2004, 06:21 AM   #13
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I have a good selection of bottom end parts,
forged stuff and many rod choices. You could get
an SC crank and mildly offset grind it with a nice
forged rod I have and also custom forged pistons.
20 PSI and 6000 RPM is easily done, the camming
needed is mild and pretty easy on the valvetrain.
There is a new headgasket out there that I hope
to carry and it needs NO O-Rings! Used on many V8
builds well over 20 PSI. Might need 1/2" ARP studs tho...
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Old 03-08-2004, 12:34 PM   #14
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I believe the newer Supercoupe Cranks are forged, not the pistons and rods, the pistons are dished and low compression, but not forged. Someone correct me if I am talking through my hat here.
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Old 03-08-2004, 12:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick0636
I believe the newer Supercoupe Cranks are forged, not the pistons and rods, the pistons are dished and low compression, but not forged. Someone correct me if I am talking through my hat here.
Rods were forged, but not pistons. And the only
cast SC cranks were the first part of the 89 production run.
All SC cranks after the 89 break were forged.
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Old 03-09-2004, 07:47 AM   #16
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dom, my friend matt works at delk performance in lebanon, he's put a bored honned and balanced 4.2 with forged everything in his 95 stang. right now he's making about 240 hp/230 tq N/A with low compression and only a lite dynotune.. he has most of the parts he needs for his turbo, he tells me he's just waiting on the wastegate, but he expects to hit around 400hp/350tq when he puts in the turbo and gets a full dynotune done. i don't claim to know all the details, he walked me through it in a rush a few weeks ago and my memory isn't great. but since you're in nashville, you can get ahold of him by calling delk performance on weekdays. just call and ask for matthew or "the v6 freak" ...i'm sure he'd be happy to help

white95v6 is his screen name. just tell him i sent you

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Old 03-09-2004, 08:56 AM   #17
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To take apart the whole motor and spend all that money and not use a Forged SC Crank seems a little dumb to me unless yo uare building a 4.2 in whic hcase there is no forged alternative.

Definetly get Diamond/Ross/Wiseco Dished Pistons, Eagle I or H Beam Rods, All ARP Studs, Morana Stud Girdle, MLS Head Gaskets.
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Old 03-09-2004, 11:21 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkling
dom, my friend matt works at delk performance in lebanon, he's put a bored honned and balanced 4.2 with forged everything in his 95 stang. right now he's making about 240 hp/230 tq N/A with low compression and only a lite dynotune.. he has most of the parts he needs for his turbo, he tells me he's just waiting on the wastegate, but he expects to hit around 400hp/350tq when he puts in the turbo and gets a full dynotune done. i don't claim to know all the details, he walked me through it in a rush a few weeks ago and my memory isn't great. but since you're in nashville, you can get ahold of him by calling delk performance on weekdays. just call and ask for matthew or "the v6 freak" ...i'm sure he'd be happy to help

white95v6 is his screen name. just tell him i sent you

lol @ v6 mafia

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You have got to get him on here and have him do a writeup or something! I want to do a turbo so badly!
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Old 03-15-2004, 07:23 AM   #19
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haha, he used to post here, but the site was too dead for him
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Old 04-06-2004, 09:43 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGR
I have a good selection of bottom end parts,
forged stuff and many rod choices. You could get
an SC crank and mildly offset grind it with a nice
forged rod I have and also custom forged pistons.
20 PSI and 6000 RPM is easily done, the camming
needed is mild and pretty easy on the valvetrain.
There is a new headgasket out there that I hope
to carry and it needs NO O-Rings! Used on many V8
builds well over 20 PSI. Might need 1/2" ARP studs tho...
^RGR, how much does that forged SC crank run dollarwise? i'm told it'd need to be custom ground to fit a 4.2?

fill me in?
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Old 04-06-2004, 11:01 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by darkling
haha, he used to post here, but the site was too dead for him
get him back on
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Old 04-06-2004, 12:23 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkling
^RGR, how much does that forged SC crank run dollarwise? i'm told it'd need to be custom ground to fit a 4.2?

fill me in?
the SC is forged, but only 3.39" stroke, the 4.2 is a 3.74" stroke
and the SC cannot quite be made to equal that stroke without
extensive work. But the addition of boost cam make up for the
lack of cubes

I can build an offset ground SC crank stroker close to 4.4 liters
(4.2 is easy) but it would be costly! However, it would be perhaps
the strongest stroker available in that size...

The SC crank is not expensive as a core ($250) but the machine
work and custom parts to make a 4.2 out of it are.
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Old 04-07-2004, 07:31 AM   #23
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ok, so should i get the forged crank and stay 3.8 or get a cast crack and go 4.2?

or go crazy and let you do the custom work for a forged 4.2 crank?

you honest opinion
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Old 04-11-2004, 09:08 PM   #24
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My thoughts are this, on a boosted motor upping the boost a few more PSI is way cheaper than adding a few more cubes via a stroker crank.

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Old 04-11-2004, 11:02 PM   #25
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When building a supercharged or turbo engine your compression should be pretty low and the cam should be smooth. As for parts you will need new pistons and rods. A stock crank can handle up to 600 hp. If you have the money invest in alot of arp bolts. The main concern is the botom end of the motor. You can spend less on the top end. This is because you can replace you top end pretty easily however if you throw a rod your pretty much done and need a whole new motor.
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Old 04-12-2004, 09:12 AM   #26
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Everyone has added some excellent info on this subject. I agree with V6stanger if you are completely broke down go with a forged rotating assembly. But I would also say if you want to use the Cast 4.2 crank that would be alright. I have been building engines for 23 years and have not seen many crank failures at all. Almost all failures have been in the Rods, Pistons or inadequate Valvetrain components. The use of Quality High strength bolts and quality Bearings and valvetrain components is a must and should not be overlooked. And you cant go wrong listening to RGR (Robert) He will be given straightforward honest and dependable info and if you have him do work for you or order parts from him you can do so with confidence. The same goes for RPM (Mikael) as I have RPM cam and heads and I have RGR Intakes on my car !!!!
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Old 04-12-2004, 10:40 AM   #27
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The very best (strongest and most reliable)
would be to get an SC shortblock, slam Forged pistons in there
after checking the possible overbore. My machinist says 60 over
is safe on any V6 block... gives a solid 3.9 liter size, just under 240 cubes,
U can call it a 240, it is 239.7 7-8 cubes from an overbore, and it will
help the heads breathe, from unshrouding, and be really STRONG.
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