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Old 12-08-2008, 03:12 PM   #1
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Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

Hey everyone. so my check engine light came on again and these are the codes that came up on the tunner.

P2197 and P2195.
Running lean

so my guys ask me a question and i feel like a dumbass. they ask me when the last time i changed the fuel filter. i didnt even know there is a fuel filter! man i have so much to learn.

so he says that since theres 90k on my car and i never changed it thats probebly the reason it ran lean for a second cause theres not enough fuel coming through. he said its probebly clogged. Im getting it replaced wend. and i dont really drive it otherwise. although he took the check engine light on and its been ok since then.

do you guys think they are right? that the fuel filter is most likely the cause?
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Old 12-08-2008, 03:15 PM   #2
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

i would change it anyways but if my memory serves me right that is an 02 sensor code, recently had midpipe installed?
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Old 12-08-2008, 03:17 PM   #3
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

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i would change it anyways but if my memory serves me right that is an 02 sensor code, recently had midpipe installed?

yah its is an o2 sensor code. it says car was running lean. i had an xpipe installed, cats taken out.

but its the bank 1 that flashed a code. bank 2 is turned off anyway. Since it showed lean my guys were trying to think why theres not enough fuel getting in, when all their sources were saying it should be good. so thats when they came to the fuel filter asumtion. and if that doesnt work they said that i might need a stronger fuel pump.

what do you think??
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:21 PM   #4
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

do me a favor, list all your mods for me, if it is a stock fuel pump then its definitly the fuel pump maxing out, who tuned the car and what percent is the pump running at?
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:21 PM   #5
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

oh, and the car looks sweet as hell.
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Old 12-08-2008, 10:13 PM   #6
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

ok heres the mods and i dont know what he has the pump running at. wish i was that knowledgable.

procharger supercharger 10 psi with intercooler,
39.5 ft.lb fuel injectors
new spark plugs-dont remmber the kind but were recomended by the man who sold me the supercharger.
long tube headers-kooks
no cats
super 40 flowmasters
tlock in rear
and bbk trottle body.

but orange if the pump was maxing out wouldnt it do that most of the time. all that changed is the headers, no cats and the flowmasters. also the new tune. the tune was custom by snipper and it runs between 12 and 12.5 air fuel ratio. do you think thats too lean anyway, cause venom thought its safer to have it like 11.5. Thing is he got more horses this way.

what do you think.

oh and thanks for the comment about the car. i really did the best i could, i try to take care of it. hes everything to me. lol yes the car is a he lol
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Old 12-08-2008, 10:22 PM   #7
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

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ok heres the mods and i dont know what he has the pump running at. wish i was that knowledgable.

procharger supercharger 10 psi with intercooler,
39.5 ft.lb fuel injectors
new spark plugs-dont remmber the kind but were recomended by the man who sold me the supercharger.
long tube headers-kooks
no cats
super 40 flowmasters
tlock in rear
and bbk trottle body.

but orange if the pump was maxing out wouldnt it do that most of the time. all that changed is the headers, no cats and the flowmasters. also the new tune. the tune was custom by snipper and it runs between 12 and 12.5 air fuel ratio. do you think thats too lean anyway, cause venom thought its safer to have it like 11.5. Thing is he got more horses this way.

what do you think.

oh and thanks for the comment about the car. i really did the best i could, i try to take care of it. hes everything to me. lol yes the car is a he lol
dude, that a/f needs to be around 11.8-12.0, 12.5 is on the line.and it sounds to me like you have the pump maxed, you might need to start looking at a boosta pump.it feels like more power because it has more power but its dangerous, make sure the rear o2s are turned off to start with.
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Old 12-08-2008, 10:27 PM   #8
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

yah the rear 02s are off. i told him that 12.5 is high but this guys, well he lives for mustangs and he swears up and down that its fine, that its on the border line. on my dyno sheet he made 3 runs when tunning it and run 1 was 12.5 and the other 2 runs it was 12.

i hope its good, you think i should tell him to do the tune again orange and make the car richer?
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Old 12-08-2008, 10:28 PM   #9
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

in gonna get that filter replaced on wend. after that ill start looking for a better pump.
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Old 12-08-2008, 10:35 PM   #10
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

orange, since i dont know as much about this, what could be the dangers involved with running at like 12. or 12.5 a.f ratio.
what does running lean do to the car? i understand that it means theres not enough gas getting into the car but could you explain it to me.
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Old 12-08-2008, 11:19 PM   #11
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

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Originally Posted by Ken Cheema View Post
orange, since i dont know as much about this, what could be the dangers involved with running at like 12. or 12.5 a.f ratio.
what does running lean do to the car? i understand that it means theres not enough gas getting into the car but could you explain it to me.
I think I mentioned the issues with running lean the last time we talked about getting your A/F down....but, if not...here you go.

Running lean means that if you get some bad gas, you could easily get detonation. This could do something as simple as break a spark plug electrode off inside your cylinder, or damage the piston, or cause you to break a rod, or a combination of all of the above.

Detonation is bad bad news. The computer tries to account for it if you have a knock sensor, but I'm not sure if you have one. If not, it will just let the motor go on about its business. With forced induction, the affects of detonation are multiplied so more bad things can and will usually happen.

It will cost you a little power to drop down to 11.8/12.0....but, the peace of mind is worth it I would think.
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Old 12-08-2008, 11:26 PM   #12
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

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I think I mentioned the issues with running lean the last time we talked about getting your A/F down....but, if not...here you go.

Running lean means that if you get some bad gas, you could easily get detonation. This could do something as simple as break a spark plug electrode off inside your cylinder, or damage the piston, or cause you to break a rod, or a combination of all of the above.

Detonation is bad bad news. The computer tries to account for it if you have a knock sensor, but I'm not sure if you have one. If not, it will just let the motor go on about its business. With forced induction, the affects of detonation are multiplied so more bad things can and will usually happen.

It will cost you a little power to drop down to 11.8/12.0....but, the peace of mind is worth it I would think.
thanks venom we did talk about it, but not what could happen. im going to talk to him about it. when i get my new gears put in i will have him make the car no higher then 12.0. your right the peace of mind is worth it. im worried right now, its freaken 1224 and i cant sleep lol i love my car too much and i do NOT want anything to happen to it. so ill go from 360 horses to 350, ill live! lol
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Old 12-08-2008, 11:38 PM   #13
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

It won't do anything driving normal...it's when you get into it hard where bad things can happen.

If you ever hear what sounds like marbles in a tin can rattling behind your dash, get out of the gas...that is detonation.
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Old 12-08-2008, 11:46 PM   #14
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

I'd take it easy until you get the A/F ratio down.
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Old 12-09-2008, 08:26 AM   #15
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

so basicaly you guys are saying dont do burnouts and no highway racing till i get the a/f ratio down some. got it, i will take it easy. thanks for telling me what it would sound like if there is a problem.

thanks again guys
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Old 12-09-2008, 09:05 AM   #16
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

he might swear to be a mustang guy but that a/f ratio is only good for a n/a car, a boosted car needs a little more fuel...this is what detonation looks like, i can show you a few in person if we ever meet



get it at 11.8 and itll be better but usually that doesnt throw a code, its usually a sensor problem throwing that code.

bank 1 is passenger side, bank 2 is driver side, sensor 1 is front so bank 1 sensor 1 is passenger front, take them out and carb clean them and reinstall, check the wires make sure they are not broken, and see if it helps. running a little lean will burn the tip of the o2 white and make it throw codes.
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Old 12-09-2008, 10:01 AM   #17
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

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he might swear to be a mustang guy but that a/f ratio is only good for a n/a car, a boosted car needs a little more fuel...this is what detonation looks like, i can show you a few in person if we ever meet



get it at 11.8 and itll be better but usually that doesnt throw a code, its usually a sensor problem throwing that code.

bank 1 is passenger side, bank 2 is driver side, sensor 1 is front so bank 1 sensor 1 is passenger front, take them out and carb clean them and reinstall, check the wires make sure they are not broken, and see if it helps. running a little lean will burn the tip of the o2 white and make it throw codes.

wow! thats bad! running lean can burn the tip of the o2 sensor. that sucks! thanks man. ill do it one step at a time. first the fuel filter and if the check engine light comes up again, then ill replace the o2 sensor. i will clean it though.

thanks
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Old 12-09-2008, 10:29 AM   #18
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

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wow! thats bad! running lean can burn the tip of the o2 sensor. that sucks! thanks man. ill do it one step at a time. first the fuel filter and if the check engine light comes up again, then ill replace the o2 sensor. i will clean it though.

thanks
not a problem, you can thank walmart service center and auto zone for giving me all of my automotive knowledge
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Old 12-09-2008, 11:06 AM   #19
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

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not a problem, you can thank walmart service center and auto zone for giving me all of my automotive knowledge
LOL knowlege is knoledge bro, doesnt matter where it comes from!
thanks again

now i gota talk to the guy who tuned it and tell him to get it to 11.8. thing is these tunner guys always have an ego and swear that they know best lol
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Old 12-09-2008, 11:12 AM   #20
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

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LOL knowlege is knoledge bro, doesnt matter where it comes from!
thanks again

now i gota talk to the guy who tuned it and tell him to get it to 11.8. thing is these tunner guys always have an ego and swear that they know best lol
There is a simple fix to that....tell him it is YOUR car, YOU want it at 11.8-12.0...PERIOD.

Next step is to start looking for a new shop to tune your car because they should respect your wishes. The only time they should put up a fight is if the tune is going to make the car unsafe like wanting to run 13:1 instead of 12:1. A shop should never argue about you wanting to be more conservative.
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Old 12-09-2008, 11:19 AM   #21
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

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LOL knowlege is knoledge bro, doesnt matter where it comes from!
thanks again

now i gota talk to the guy who tuned it and tell him to get it to 11.8. thing is these tunner guys always have an ego and swear that they know best lol
man, i was kidding, im a little more reputable then than lol
i feel insulted
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Old 12-09-2008, 12:32 PM   #22
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

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There is a simple fix to that....tell him it is YOUR car, YOU want it at 11.8-12.0...PERIOD.

Next step is to start looking for a new shop to tune your car because they should respect your wishes. The only time they should put up a fight is if the tune is going to make the car unsafe like wanting to run 13:1 instead of 12:1. A shop should never argue about you wanting to be more conservative.

thats so funny i just had this argument with him lol and he said what ever you want.

ok heres the curious thing. maybe this is my fault, he says im reading the dyno runs wrong. even though the sheet on the bottom of the runs is saying like 12.5 or 12.0 he says that, that is when he let off. I think hes kinda surprised that im suddenly becoming knowledgable. he said when its actually on the road its doing like 11.8 instead. He said road conditions are diffrent from the dyno conditions.

tommrow when i go get the fuel filter changed he will explain the dyno sheet to me. i wish i had it on me so i would show it to you guys. its in the car and im in the office.

so if hes right and its running at 11.8 on the street thats ok right?

i wish i could just trust the guy but i dont trust'em. thats the curse of being in the buissiness industry, you learn to not trust anyone lol

you guys are diffrent. you have genuenly been alot and seem like really good guys.

again guys i really appreciate all your help.
you guys rock. you ever come up to NY, ill show you guys around!
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Old 12-09-2008, 01:05 PM   #23
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

Post your dyno sheet for us when you get a chance later...

Yes, street runs are different than on the dyno...but post your sheet anyhow. Scan it or take a pic of it or something.
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Old 12-09-2008, 02:30 PM   #24
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

a/f on the dyno and the street are amost identical because its a load bearing dyno, but it does go lean when you let off the gas and it goes into decel.either way, 12.5 wont throw a lean code, its probably a sensor problem caused by a slight lean condition, i rasn my car at 14.5 for a while LOL before i put it on our dyno, and it never threw a code, or a rod
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Old 12-09-2008, 02:32 PM   #25
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

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a/f on the dyno and the street are amost identical because its a load bearing dyno, but it does go lean when you let off the gas and it goes into decel.either way, 12.5 wont throw a lean code, its probably a sensor problem caused by a slight lean condition, i rasn my car at 14.5 for a while LOL before i put it on our dyno, and it never threw a code, or a rod
14.5!!! you crazy man you lol yah im gonna clean the o2 sensor and see what happens after i change the filter tommrow.
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Old 12-09-2008, 02:34 PM   #26
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

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Post your dyno sheet for us when you get a chance later...

Yes, street runs are different than on the dyno...but post your sheet anyhow. Scan it or take a pic of it or something.
i will. i hope its still in the back seat!! lol its funny before i started talking to you guys i had no idea how important these numbers were. i hope i saved the dam thing. lets pray! lol
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Old 12-10-2008, 04:56 PM   #27
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

ok just so you guys know whats going on i could NOT find my dyno sheet cause im an *** and i had no idea how important those things are untill i met you guys lol

also had a long chat with my dyno guy today and he explained some things to me. he said that on a dyno it doesnt take into effect the weather conditions and since i have an intercooler and about 4 vents in the front of the car that the engine temp or the air temp coming in is diffrent then what it is on a dyno. he said if it dynos at 12.3 its not going over 11.8 on it max performance on the street. he said if i get a a/f gauge ( a better one) that he would prove it to me. but again he said i want you to be confrotable and if you want me to lower it even more i will but your in the safe zone.

he also told me that theres always basically a 10% variation towards the richer side in engines according to atmospheric conditions. he said thats one of the functions of the OBD 2 system.

does this sound right to you guys, orange, venom?

my dyno guy is cool, i do trust him, hes a good guy but curious as to what you guys think about this.
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Old 12-10-2008, 05:09 PM   #28
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

I can see a difference in street vs dyno, but, I'm not sure how I feel about a full .5 point difference. now, there is about a .5 difference between when you measure at the tail pipes vs measuring at the rear 02 sensor.

Yes, the air is different on the street and you do pull in more on the dyno due to your hood being open.

However, I've never read any of the top tuners making the A/F 12.5 when on the dyno "assuming" it will drop down to 11.8-12.0 on the street.
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Old 12-10-2008, 05:19 PM   #29
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

i dont know, im confused lol i told him to dyno it again when he does the gears later this month.

he showed me like 20 diff dyno sheets, some with superchargers some with natural aspirated blocks. lets see what comes out of this.

you think i should have him tune it down anyways? what i really need is to see what its running on the street, but i dont want to spend god dam 250 dollars on a good gauge lol too much money when that can go towards the gears!!

oh by the way yah my fuel filter was NASTY lol good thing we changed it.
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Old 12-10-2008, 09:14 PM   #30
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

on the street it picks up more air then the little fan in his shop can supply, what happens when you run more air??? less of a fuel ratio...hence a lean condition, the hood being open doesnt compensate for 55mph air being shoved in.get him to lower it and get a good wideband so you dont have to worry about it anymore.
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Old 12-10-2008, 11:12 PM   #31
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

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on the street it picks up more air then the little fan in his shop can supply, what happens when you run more air??? less of a fuel ratio...hence a lean condition, the hood being open doesnt compensate for 55mph air being shoved in.get him to lower it and get a good wideband so you dont have to worry about it anymore.
yes sir!!! lol nah thanks orange. ill have him lower it a bit when he does my gears.
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Old 12-10-2008, 11:12 PM   #32
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

by the way any suggestions on the wideband??
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Old 12-10-2008, 11:24 PM   #33
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

man, there are a few, get the one that reads like 10.5-14...i think its an aem or neuspeed or something, i remmber it being an import name, anderson has some nice ones too.
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Old 12-10-2008, 11:27 PM   #34
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

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Originally Posted by SimplyOrange View Post
man, there are a few, get the one that reads like 10.5-14...i think its an aem or neuspeed or something, i remmber it being an import name, anderson has some nice ones too.
i know its a stupid question but humor this idot.

so it will work even though i have no cats? cause i have a cheap one that basically goes red orange and green lol and it stoped working properly when i got rid of the cats.

just wanted to check.
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Old 12-11-2008, 08:04 AM   #35
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Re: Check engine light-codes P2197,P2195

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Originally Posted by Ken Cheema View Post
i know its a stupid question but humor this idot.

so it will work even though i have no cats? cause i have a cheap one that basically goes red orange and green lol and it stoped working properly when i got rid of the cats.

just wanted to check.
cats have nothing to do with it, you might have freed up the exaust flow and its running to lean to register on your guage, thats a garbage guage anyway, you need a good one with digital numbers
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