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Old 08-10-2004, 01:51 PM   #1
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Worth The Effort???

This may be a little long winded so please bear with me. I have only a small amount of car knowledge so if I say something wrong or way off base please correct me. I'm here to learn.

I have owned crappy cars as long as I have been driving. I have always loved to drive even though I have never owned a nice, performance friendly car. I have never thought about upgrading any of my previous cars because they were all old and crummy.

I just bought a Red 2002 V6 Coupe (manual transmission). Now that I have a car that is (possibly) worth upgrading I have been looking into which mods to get. There is a lot of information available online, but none of the info really tells me what I want to know.

Before I spend a penny on a CAI, a drive pulley, a differential upgrade (rear end), or an exhaust system, I would like to know where all that will really get me.

My goal is to have a fast car, or at least a car that feels fast to me, and a car that handles well. I don't want a super-duper monster drag racer. I want to go to the track a few times a month and run my car for the fun of it. Not really for competition or to prove anything. Just for my driving enjoyment.

I'm not rich, but I'm not poor either. Cost is definitely a factor but I am not afraid to spend some money if it will get me where I want to go.

What's the point you ask? Here it is. I refuse to waste $800-$1500 on upgrades that won't increase my performance that much. If upgrading to a CAI, drive pulley, new rear end, new exhaust, etc. only gets me 215HP and both rear wheels spinning, I am not sure it's worth it. HOWEVER, if you say these mods in addition to a few others (new cam, other engine mods, lowering springs) will get me a strong, well performing car (NOTICIBLY stronger than stock), I would be willing to spend $2000-$2500 (total over a few years) if I knew I would have what I wanted at the end. If you say a Super/Turbocharger (or a new engine) is REQUIRED for good performance then I will save my money and get another car in a few years.

I would like to start upgrading this week. I have been itching to learn about cars for years now. But I definitely don't want to upgrade this car at all if I can't get where I want at a reasonable cost. If I have to wait and get a GT in a few years, I'll do it.

Thanks for reading this. I would appreciate any comments or suggestions. If any of you live in the Nashville area and know of a shop or club that talks Mustangs please let me know.

Jason
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Old 08-10-2004, 02:04 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akira01

What's the point you ask? Here it is. I refuse to waste $800-$1500 on upgrades that won't increase my performance that much. If upgrading to a CAI, drive pulley, new rear end, new exhaust, etc. only gets me 215HP and both rear wheels spinning, I am not sure it's worth it. HOWEVER, if you say these mods in addition to a few others (new cam, other engine mods, lowering springs) will get me a strong, well performing car (NOTICIBLY stronger than stock), I would be willing to spend $2000-$2500 (total over a few years) if I knew I would have what I wanted at the end. If you say a Super/Turbocharger (or a new engine) is REQUIRED for good performance then I will save my money and get another car in a few years.


Jason
Well Jason I can say with just CAI exhaust and UDP and rear end you wont be at 215 but your car will feel faster due to the Rear end gears. All mods start there though. With heads, Cam intakes and all the bolt ons 220-250RWHP is obtainable. Engine HP from the factory are BHP (taken at the flywheel) In the performance world everything is rated in Rear Wheel HP.

You might have 193 Bhp but you only have 160-170 RWHP which with engine mods and bolt ons you can have like I said 220- 250 RWHP and that is N/A Naturally aspirated, without nitrous or Supercharger.
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Old 08-10-2004, 02:10 PM   #3
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Sounds like you've done a good bit of research, which is a good thing. It all depends on what you want out of your car. I personally love my Mustang, but I do not plan on modding it performance wise. I figure I will wait until I have a better/faster Mustang to start out with. I can't stand to lose
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Old 08-10-2004, 02:13 PM   #4
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Thanks DD for your reply.

I think the stock performance is not all that great. Will an upgrade to 220-250RWHP really be noticeable? Even if it is, are you saying the only option I have after that is a super/turbo charger?

One last question... Where would all these upgrades get a GT? If I wait and get a GT in 2-3 years and then do all of this will I have a hell of a car then?

Thanks again,

Jason

P.S. I might wait too WhiteStang. It dees not make sense to drop a lot of money on a V6 when I should just try to enjoy what I have and get a GT down the road.
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Old 08-10-2004, 02:16 PM   #5
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personally if I were you and you wanted the best bang for your dollars, i would do these 5 mods.
- First get dual exhaust $200+
- Second get an underdrive pulley $175
- Third get a CAI $155
- Fourth change your camshaft. (207/215 seems to work well) ~ $200
- Fifth change your rear-end and/or gears ~ $300
- Finally get a chip to tie everything together $325
- I would HIGHLY recommend an SCT chip for this. Go to Americanmotorsport.com for it. Alberto will hook you up with a good tune.

Go extremeeffect.com for everything else!!
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Old 08-10-2004, 02:19 PM   #6
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Those upgrades worth 220-250 would actually be over what a stock GT makes . I have seen Auto 99+ GT's dyno around 220 RWHP. If you modded a GT the same way you would be in the 300 HP area easy. Just depends on what you want
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Old 08-10-2004, 02:36 PM   #7
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Thanks for all the info guys.

It looks like you are saying I would have about the RWHP of a stock GT once I added everything except a Super/Turbocharger. Thats a hefty investment just to get to around the performance of a GT.

I'll just have to think it over and decide if I can wait.

I do have a few other questions:

1. If I go to my local muffler shop and have them upgrade my exhaust system, is it going to come close to sounding like a V8?

2. I my shifter does not go easily into second or third gear. I have to muscle it in unless I drive slowly. As soon as I get on it, I have trouble getting the shifter to go into 2nd and 3rd gear.
Is this transmission damage (I did buy it used and it's a 2002 with 41000 miles) or should I just upgrade my shifter?

Thanks again,

Jason
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Old 08-10-2004, 02:38 PM   #8
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remember though gt insurance will not be as cheap as a v6, that is why many people in the v6world purchased the v6 in the first place. Sure you might spend more money on modifications to get your car fast but you'll have that power for the smaller insurance rate.
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Old 08-10-2004, 02:41 PM   #9
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It will sound like a V8 at idle but as soon as you get above 2000 rpm the 2 missing cylinders will be noticeable. It will sound good just higher pitched than a V8

You should get one of the numerous replacement shifters available for manuals. the stock Ford shifter leaves a lot to be desired.
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Old 08-10-2004, 03:23 PM   #10
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That's a good point Falcon. I forgot about that.

I think I found a decent place around here that does installs and mods (http://www.delkperformance.com). I'm gonna head down there this weekend and ask them what they charge.

I probably will get another shifter. I looked into what that involves and I am pretty sure I can do that myself. It will be worth the $200 if it puts less wear on my transmission.

Thanks again guys.

Jason
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Old 08-10-2004, 03:45 PM   #11
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When you have trouble shifting, that most likely is tranny damage. It could also be slack in the clutch cable. A short throw shifter is also a good mod because it shortens the amount of time you spens shifting, and in racing every milli-second counts. Also one thing I forgot to add to my list of stuff is a chip, once you get gears you'll need a chip for you car to correct the speedo and remove the governor. I'll fix it above.
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Old 08-10-2004, 04:53 PM   #12
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You mention tranny damage... Even though I got the car used I did get a warranty (2 years) on it that covers most things. Do you think I should have it looked at? Even though it is drivable, I don't want to have any problems down the road.

While I have the experts here I might as well ask this too. Are there any materials (online or elsewhere) that can teach me the ins-and-outs of my Mustang? I'm talking books, CDs, websites, anything. I have never worked on cars before, but I am good with my hands (I build and fly RC helicopters and other RC vehicles) so I am sure I am capable of doing at least some installs and regular maintenance myself.

Hopefully one day I'll know enough to be able to help a newby out myself. Until then I appreciate your help.

Jason
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Old 08-10-2004, 05:37 PM   #13
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Pick up a Chiltons Manual. They have a ton of useful info in them.
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Old 08-12-2004, 09:02 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akira01
You mention tranny damage... Even though I got the car used I did get a warranty (2 years) on it that covers most things. Do you think I should have it looked at? Even though it is drivable, I don't want to have any problems down the road.

While I have the experts here I might as well ask this too. Are there any materials (online or elsewhere) that can teach me the ins-and-outs of my Mustang? I'm talking books, CDs, websites, anything. I have never worked on cars before, but I am good with my hands (I build and fly RC helicopters and other RC vehicles) so I am sure I am capable of doing at least some installs and regular maintenance myself.

Hopefully one day I'll know enough to be able to help a newby out myself. Until then I appreciate your help.

Jason
Well it could be damage, but it could also be slack in the clutch cable. When you sit in your car. Lightly press on the clutch pedal and if you can move it without really putting any force on it with your foot, you have a little slack. This can be removed by pressing on your clutch pedal with your hands. If you look under the dash while doing this, you'll notice a huge pie looking thing called the clutch quadrant. It should be white and plastic if it's stock. With the pedal held down with one hand, hold the quadrant with the other hand and don't let it move. Now pull up on the clutch pedal and you'll hear it start clicking. Go slow. I would go one click at a time and check for slack. If you still feel slack in the cable redo the previous steps. If you think you've gone to much, release the pedal and quadrant and pull up on the clutch pedal, it will reset itself back to the stock location and you can start over. When you think you've removed all the slack, drive it around and see how it shifts, if it shifts fine, then you've fixed the problem. If it still has trouble shifting then you've got tranny damge.
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Old 08-12-2004, 09:21 AM   #15
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Most likely damage to the tranny is Synchro's going out. If it is damaged.
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Old 08-12-2004, 09:59 AM   #16
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New Shifter

One of my first upgrades will be a new shifter. If I install a good aftermarket shifter and still have trouble I will take it in and have it looked at.

I'm really glad I got a warranty. The last thing I want to worry about now is tranny damage. I want to be spending my money on upgrades, not repairs.

Thanks,

Jason

BTW, is there some reason why I can't get to the Member's Rides section? It says my user account doe not have permission to access that page.
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Old 08-12-2004, 10:25 AM   #17
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It was taken down temporarily for upgrades, bug fixes, etc. It should be back up sometime relatively soon. I hope.
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Old 08-12-2004, 07:30 PM   #18
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go drive a 99 up gt mustang with a 5 speed that is bone stock if you like that level of performance you can do that with 2-3 thousand invested, if you like the way a 94-98 gt 5 speed mustang feels you can do that even cheaper, probably just a few little bolt ons.
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Old 08-13-2004, 08:26 AM   #19
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2-3 thousand does not sound too bad. Over time I could see myself spending that much. It would certainly be cheaper that way than buying a GT, and my insurance will still think I "only" have a V6. I'm pretty sure I would be happy with the performance level too.
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Old 08-13-2004, 11:01 AM   #20
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we got em! lol good choice, and have fun!
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Old 08-13-2004, 11:29 PM   #21
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i have a v6 too, and have a few questions

I'm only 16, and have a 2004 black v6 stang. it was only 16 thou, so my mom bought it at the time and handed it over to me recently when she realized she wanted a "family" car. we've had it for a few months and i dont know if its going to be anytime soon i get another car, especially a GT. Its an automatic. In about a year or so, i wanna make some engine modifications to make the car faster. but right now, i want a different sound without making any permanent modifications to the car. Can someone tell me the cheapest way i can get like a GT sound without spending too much. i dont know too much about the exhaust just yet and want to learn. Will, adding an expensive muffler tip change the sound of the car and "increase" its Hp by at least a few? Can someone give me ideas on how to improve the sound?
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Old 08-14-2004, 12:00 AM   #22
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the most noticeable way to change the sound is with differant mufflers.... a tip won't change the sound at all.
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Old 08-14-2004, 12:02 AM   #23
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Quote:
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I'm only 16, and have a 2004 black v6 stang. it was only 16 thou, so my mom bought it at the time and handed it over to me recently when she realized she wanted a "family" car. we've had it for a few months and i dont know if its going to be anytime soon i get another car, especially a GT. Its an automatic. In about a year or so, i wanna make some engine modifications to make the car faster. but right now, i want a different sound without making any permanent modifications to the car. Can someone tell me the cheapest way i can get like a GT sound without spending too much. i dont know too much about the exhaust just yet and want to learn. Will, adding an expensive muffler tip change the sound of the car and "increase" its Hp by at least a few? Can someone give me ideas on how to improve the sound?
Only need to post once bro

http://www.mustang-forums.com/forums...ead.php?t=8296
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Old 11-16-2006, 04:37 PM   #24
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Cool Re: Worth The Effort???

just my 2 cents:
1. If the clutch adjustment quadrent is stock "Plastic" to adjust it to take the slack out you simply lift up on the clutch pedel " I read somewere apply about ten pounds of pressure but I have had good luck just using my toe to lift It" this disingages the paw and lets the quadrent spring pull the slack from the cable then just let it back down and drive it to see if there is a differents. If not the plastic gears may be stripped. If they are buy a good after market quadrent and cable adjuster so you can adjust the slack out of the cable at the firewall under the hood.
2. If its not slack in the cable that is your problem it could be in the clutch componets or the transmission.
Hope this helps
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Old 11-17-2006, 05:38 PM   #25
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Re: Worth The Effort???

Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle05 View Post
just my 2 cents:
1. If the clutch adjustment quadrent is stock "Plastic" to adjust it to take the slack out you simply lift up on the clutch pedel " I read somewere apply about ten pounds of pressure but I have had good luck just using my toe to lift It" this disingages the paw and lets the quadrent spring pull the slack from the cable then just let it back down and drive it to see if there is a differents. If not the plastic gears may be stripped. If they are buy a good after market quadrent and cable adjuster so you can adjust the slack out of the cable at the firewall under the hood.
2. If its not slack in the cable that is your problem it could be in the clutch componets or the transmission.
Hope this helps
What you're talking about is to release the tension from the cluch cable. Pulling up on the clutch pedal disengages the paw like you said but it allows the cable to extended fully. If you need to remove slack you need to push down on the clutch pedal and then hold it down with one hand and with the other hand, you need to hold the quadrant in place. Pull up on the pedal then and you'll hear the clutch pedal click. Usually you just need 1-2 clicks to remove all the slack. But you may need more. Let me know if that helps.
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Old 11-20-2006, 08:29 PM   #26
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Cool Re: Worth The Effort???

you may want to check the ford shop manual the spring on the quadrent when disingaged from the pawl " by lifting the pedel" pulls any slack out of the cable. The haynes manual tell it the same way.
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Old 11-21-2006, 04:11 PM   #27
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Re: Worth The Effort???

yes it does this when the clutch pedal is not being pressed down, or in a "relaxed" state. To remove slack from the cable, you need to follow my steps.
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Old 11-21-2006, 05:56 PM   #28
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Cool Re: Worth The Effort???

OK I reread what you wrote I think I see what you are doing now. I do have one question. Won't that preload the release bearing? "putting tension against the pressure plate fingers and wearing out the throwout bearing rather quickly? I would think this would make your pedel release nearer the top for a quicker change of the gears without having to push the pedal in as far but if it preloads the bearing and the pressure plate fingers you would wear out the bearing pretty quick and loose some clamping power of the pressure plate ?
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Old 11-21-2006, 07:46 PM   #29
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Re: Worth The Effort???

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Originally Posted by eagle05 View Post
OK I reread what you wrote I think I see what you are doing now. I do have one question. Won't that preload the release bearing? "putting tension against the pressure plate fingers and wearing out the throwout bearing rather quickly? I would think this would make your pedel release nearer the top for a quicker change of the gears without having to push the pedal in as far but if it preloads the bearing and the pressure plate fingers you would wear out the bearing pretty quick and loose some clamping power of the pressure plate ?
Yes sorta of, but I've done this on my car personally for 6 years and I only changed the T.O. Bearing once and that's only because I rebuilt my engine and changed out the clutch for a better one. SPEC Stage 2 to be exact and I rebuilt my engine in Oct 2003. So 3 years and going still on my current T.O. Bearing. I only use 2 clicks, so the "preload" is very minimal and my "maximum clamping power" is still there.
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Old 11-23-2006, 09:30 PM   #30
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Cool Re: Worth The Effort???

So how high up is your release does this help with quicker shifts.
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Old 11-24-2006, 08:59 PM   #31
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Re: Worth The Effort???

Well I did this to remove the slop or play from my clutch pedal and it works great. I can fully disengage my transmission and shift much easier and smoother this way no matter what my RPMs are.
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