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Old 04-14-2009, 02:54 PM   #1
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noob buildin'... its a doozy

ok so here's the deal. i'm building my 5.0 and have a lot of tech ?'s so instead of flooding your board with posts (too late), i figure i'll start this thread and keep it going.

here's what i got so far:
  • short block is in the shop being bored .30 over
  • new pistons 9.73:1 hyperuetctic
  • stock rods and cranck w/ all new bearings, seals ect.
  • new chromoly rings
  • new hp oil pump/pickup
  • all new gaskets n such
  • ford racing e cam
  • roller rockers
  • dual spring valve springs
  • lifters came with setup but pretty sure they're upgrades
  • t5 manual
  • b&m short throw ripper
  • 3.73 gears
  • bbk cold air
  • shorty headers
  • h pipe flowmasters all the way back
  • msd 6a
  • eibach sportlines w/ sensa trac shocks, struts, dampers
  • energy suspension poly motor/trans mounts and bushing kit
  • i think that's it. might have left something out

i'm running street not drag except maybe the occasional time check at the 1/4 mile for fun. i'm new to forums and mustangs but been building for years. mostly old school stuff tho, ya know carbs n such. so any help would be greatly appreciated

so i'll start here with ?'s:

clutch and flywheel. had an act clutch setup with stock flywheel. looks lik a stage 1 but it looks pretty beat so was thinking of getting a matching clutch and lightweight flywheel setup. any recommendations? how do i know what weight counterbalance to get?

underdrive pulleys. definitely want to get these. planning on elec. fan, elec. water pump and i already have a wicked audiobahn setup pulling a lot of power. so i found a 3g alternator nib on ebay through a store that sells with stock plug n play for my wiring. i think i only splice the small staor into a wire already on the alt. is this the way to go? should i keep the 2.25" pulley on it or go for the 1.8"?

electric fan. was going for the taurus fan and thanks to bbunt302 and others on they're thread about the wiring i'm planning on the summit wiring kit. any helpful tips on installing the fan? i heard to turn it upside down? is it just a lot of splicing? prob google that one.

electric water pump. ok have'nt scoped too much into this yet but if i can get more ponies, why not. any suggestions? good brands, bad ones? wiring kits?

fuel and air. i'm looking to go up to 24# injectors with a cobra 70mm maf calibrated to the injectors. do i need an ecu too or should i just get my tuner to map it? also should i go with a 190lph or 255lph fuel pump?

intake manifolds. i have a gt40 setup upper n lower. should i look at something better with all the other mods? i guess my ? is really how much can it handle?

oh yeah. aluminum driveshaft. is it really worth it?

last one. i was gonna flush my trans b4 putting the motor back in and had a friend tell me t5's use atf not manual trans oil. is that true?

anyway i know its a lot but if anyone can shed some light on these subjects i would greatly appreciate it. i mis my baby and want to build her right, now that her heart is coming back better than b4.

thanks - scallion
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Old 04-14-2009, 03:05 PM   #2
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

lets see,

flywheel: I know fidanza makes a lightweight flywheel that should be pretty good.

a elec waterpump on a street car is useless and its one more thing to go wrong. I dont see freeing up 3hp or so worth risk it going out while driving and overheating the motor..then u gotta get ur machine work an all done again depending on how bad it is.

intake, it depends on what heads you are using. Are you using the stock heads or aftermarket.

fuel seems fine for what you have planned out, the 255 would support more fuel needed mods in the future.

alum driveshaft, anytime you can lighten the mass being rotated is always good.

yes t5's use regular atf fluid.
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Old 04-14-2009, 04:40 PM   #3
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

sweet thanks. i have just gt40 heads but with the rockers etc. listed. i dint want to do all this and not see max gains cause i'm not actually shoving more air/fuel in and exhaust out ya know. thanks again
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Old 04-14-2009, 04:59 PM   #4
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

Either the GT40 or Cobra intakes would probably work well.

The Taurus fan works well, but pulls a lot of juice. Mine is mounted upside down. The wiring isn't too bad. If you go with the controller I have that you mentioned from the other post, it comes with fairly clear instructions on what to do. The most important part is making sure you have a good wire to use for the ignition.

You will have to be careful with your set-up as far as the alternator goes. Between the electric fan, system and possible electric water pump, it's going to need some serious amps. I'd really recommend a 200 amp alternator instead of the 130 amp alternators found in the 94+ Mustangs that most people seem to use. I have a 130 in my car, and just with the electric fan, I have issues at idle when the A/C is on with headlights dimming, etc. You may also want to consider putting an overdrive pulley on your alternator.

I would get the 255 lph fuel pump just because it doesn't hurt to oversize them and you won't have to worry about upgrading.

The only other thing I can think to add is that if the E cam isn't set in stone, you should give serious consideration to finding a cam better suited to your combo.
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:18 PM   #5
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

like bbunt said, since its just the gt40 heads, go ahead and use that intake you will be fine.

everybody hates on the ecam but for this combo I dont see any problems with it. Are there better out there...yes but is it needed not really.
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Old 04-15-2009, 01:13 AM   #6
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

since you're already getting the engine rebuilt, put some forged pistons in there. seriously
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Old 04-15-2009, 01:43 AM   #7
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

electric water pump not worth it. its not full proof.

underdrive pulleys are good but definately use the 1.8 on the alternater or you'll have to rev the engine at idle.
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Old 04-15-2009, 07:48 AM   #8
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

im gonna leave out the water pump so hopefully the alt im getting should be fine. its actually a 160 amp so i'll try it and see. if not i'll switch it out for a 200. i will def get that overdrive pulley for the alt.

it's a little late for the forged pistons since i'm getting the short block back in 2 days but tax time next year i was thinking of getting a turbo kit so i'll get forged pistons and crank as a winter project probably. i wont need to get machine work done so i can hone and press piston and install rings n bearings, crank etc. myself. i should have a garage again by then haha i'm sure i'll be picking brains here when that comes around too.

anyway thanks to everyone for helping to answer my questions. u guys rock and i'll be thanking you guys when i'm eating vettes for breakfast :-]
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Old 04-15-2009, 08:11 AM   #9
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

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Originally Posted by xpunisher1x View Post
anyway thanks to everyone for helping to answer my questions. u guys rock and i'll be thanking you guys when i'm eating vettes for breakfast :-]
Depends on which 'vettes your talking about and on what patch of highway...

Just post up vids when it happens! lol (just busting your balls!)
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Old 04-15-2009, 04:40 PM   #10
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

Yeah yeah haha well I won't stop building till I do

Oh yeah I was talking about boosting winter 2010 but do u think blown is better? Just trying to get a heads up to put $ away. Obviously I'll need better heads intake etc. But the ford racing e303 cam I have is good for that right?
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Old 04-15-2009, 04:47 PM   #11
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

id get a cam thats made for the application be it turbo or blower.
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Old 04-15-2009, 04:55 PM   #12
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

+1
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Old 04-15-2009, 07:34 PM   #13
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

good to know thanks. i'll start saving haha
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Old 04-16-2009, 12:09 AM   #14
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

i agree... if i didnt know better, i would have thought that an e-cam insulted bbunt's
mother. he really doesnt like those cams. but if you are going boost, the ecam is the best in the ford alphabet for that..hands down. if you are on a budget. typically duration is the issue when choosing a cam for boost applications. you can stay with a stock cam and just add "1.7 or 1.72rr" and you will be very happy for a street application. i think ecams are the ****. as far as alternators, i used a 4cyl mustang alt. pulley on my 3g. it worked great and at the time was free. and in my opinion, an electric water pump for a street stang is a bit over the top. cost versus performance. it just seems like you could buy alot more cooler stuff for your mustang for the money.
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Old 04-16-2009, 06:08 AM   #15
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

Haha yeah I agree about the ecam. I know that ford racing suggests that cam for superchargeds on summits site. I also know that I really liked my e cam setup before I fried my rings last summer which is what started this. U see I bought this beast from a friend of mine who bought it built with all 93 cobra under the hood and back. Minus a few things so it was a monster to start. Once I'm done I'm gonna drive to niagra and back from Baltimore to break it in then I'll go see my 1/4 mile times and post pics. Damn I'm so antsy haha

Anyway why a 4cyl pulley? Is it more overdrive than a stock pulley? I can't seem too find that 1.8 pulley again and most underdrive setups claim stock alt charge. Any suggestions?
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Old 04-16-2009, 06:37 AM   #16
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

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i agree... if i didnt know better, i would have thought that an e-cam insulted bbunt's
mother. he really doesnt like those cams. but if you are going boost, the ecam is the best in the ford alphabet for that..hands down. if you are on a budget. typically duration is the issue when choosing a cam for boost applications. you can stay with a stock cam and just add "1.7 or 1.72rr" and you will be very happy for a street application. i think ecams are the ****. as far as alternators, i used a 4cyl mustang alt. pulley on my 3g. it worked great and at the time was free. and in my opinion, an electric water pump for a street stang is a bit over the top. cost versus performance. it just seems like you could buy alot more cooler stuff for your mustang for the money.
I don't like the E303 because I understand a little bit about how cams work. Overlap is the main issue when choosing a cam for boost. You want to minimize overlap because overlap equals lost boost.

Duration is a factor in overlap, but not the only one. Here's one way to calculate overlap:

- Add the intake and exhaust advertised durations (not the .050" durations)
- Divide the results by 4
- Subtract the LSA
- Multiply the results by 2

So the E-cam ends up with...

282 + 282 = 564
564 / 4 = 141
141 - 110 = 31
31 * 2 = 62*

62* is a relatively large amount of overlap. This makes it horrible for blown applications because you are doing nothing but bleeding off boost for about 1/6th of your engine cycle. It's also why the E303 idles like absolute crap.

The other thing that sucks about the E303 is the extremely slow ramp rates. What this means is that the E303 is holding the valves open at max lift for a shorter period of time than say the Comp Xtreme Energy cams (which are known for their incredibly fast ramp rates). The E303 has an incredibly old, conservative profile (think Dick Cheney here). This is why it does not make the torque that a cam with the exact same durations/peak lifts would that had more radical ramp rates.

I'm just trying to educate people, but no one seems to care to listen. If this were a CAI we were talking about, that's fine. The cam, however, is THE most important part of your engine. So, I'll just keep preaching to myself.
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Old 04-16-2009, 10:09 AM   #17
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Talking Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

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Originally Posted by bbunt302 View Post
I don't like the E303 because I understand a little bit about how cams work. Overlap is the main issue when choosing a cam for boost. You want to minimize overlap because overlap equals lost boost.

Duration is a factor in overlap, but not the only one. Here's one way to calculate overlap:

- Add the intake and exhaust advertised durations (not the .050" durations)
- Divide the results by 4
- Subtract the LSA
- Multiply the results by 2

So the E-cam ends up with...

282 + 282 = 564
564 / 4 = 141
141 - 110 = 31
31 * 2 = 62*

62* is a relatively large amount of overlap. This makes it horrible for blown applications because you are doing nothing but bleeding off boost for about 1/6th of your engine cycle. It's also why the E303 idles like absolute crap.

The other thing that sucks about the E303 is the extremely slow ramp rates. What this means is that the E303 is holding the valves open at max lift for a shorter period of time than say the Comp Xtreme Energy cams (which are known for their incredibly fast ramp rates). The E303 has an incredibly old, conservative profile (think Dick Cheney here). This is why it does not make the torque that a cam with the exact same durations/peak lifts would that had more radical ramp rates.

I'm just trying to educate people, but no one seems to care to listen. If this were a CAI we were talking about, that's fine. The cam, however, is THE most important part of your engine. So, I'll just keep preaching to myself.
i agree with everything you are saying bbunt. you are absolutly correct. all i was saying is that the ecam is the best suited for forced induction applications out of all the alphabet cams. not that the ecam is the best blower cam in the world. i understand cams a lil bit too. which is why i said a stock cam (with virtualy no overlap & 1.7rr) is better suited than an ecam. typicaly, i think most ppl choosing an alphabet cam for forced induction are trying to save a few dollars as opposed to a custom grind. but the stock cam with some 1.7 or 1.72rr is a money saving alternative for someone trying to save for a blower for a low boost street application. and let's face it bbunt, most guys love to hear that valve overlap at idle when you pull up to your favorite "hot rod hang-out". trust me, im not caring about the 40-75hp im loosing when im getting all the thumbs up when i pull into jeg's parking lot on a friday night going thump..thump...thump...thump, and the 1.7rr make'n the overlap even worse...lol.. and believe it or not, i did think about you when i chose my cam. you've been trying to educate the masses since ive been a member. but like a typical 16yr old, i chose the cam for the lopiness sound it makes with my off-road x-pipe and mac mufflers anyway bbunt, that's just my opinion, and why i chose the obsolete alphabet cam. i will be the first to agree, ford definatley did not have a better idea when it came to single pattern cams with slow ramp rates. but they definaltley sound cool so basicaly, im saying you are right. but like you said....noone seems to care. again..this is just my opinion
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Old 04-16-2009, 12:08 PM   #18
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

Ok I get it. I actually appreciate the tech knowledge. I'll save for a custom grind for the boost project but as far as my na right now I should be good right? Oh yeah summit just cost me an xtra $100 at the machine shop cause they sent the wrong size piston rings with the build kit. Kinda sux that the shop didn't call me first tho. Oh well maybe I'll get some credit
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Old 04-16-2009, 04:53 PM   #19
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

for blown apps I think the F303 is better then the rest of the alphabet cams.
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Old 04-16-2009, 04:55 PM   #20
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

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Ok I get it. I actually appreciate the tech knowledge. I'll save for a custom grind for the boost project but as far as my na right now I should be good right? Oh yeah summit just cost me an xtra $100 at the machine shop cause they sent the wrong size piston rings with the build kit. Kinda sux that the shop didn't call me first tho. Oh well maybe I'll get some credit
If you're changing your set-up eventually anyway, it's definitely not a bad idea to just get the cheaper cam for now.
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Old 04-16-2009, 07:17 PM   #21
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

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for blown apps I think the F303 is better then the rest of the alphabet cams.
really? who knows at this point. i just like the way my car sounds lopey as hell...the whoosh!!! from the blow off valve... i know, i know...it's juvenile. but i think it's awsome.
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Old 04-16-2009, 11:46 PM   #22
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

I believe so yes, cant remember the specs, but its even advertised for blown apps.
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Old 04-17-2009, 07:32 AM   #23
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

yea, I saw some where they were making a new cam profile for the I think its going to be the FU CAM
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Old 04-17-2009, 09:41 AM   #24
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

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yea, I saw some where they were making a new cam profile for the I think its going to be the FU CAM
fu? whats that stand for
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Old 04-17-2009, 01:25 PM   #25
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

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fu? whats that stand for
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Old 04-17-2009, 02:59 PM   #26
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

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Haha yeah I agree about the ecam. I know that ford racing suggests that cam for superchargeds on summits site. I also know that I really liked my e cam setup before I fried my rings last summer which is what started this. U see I bought this beast from a friend of mine who bought it built with all 93 cobra under the hood and back. Minus a few things so it was a monster to start. Once I'm done I'm gonna drive to niagra and back from Baltimore to break it in then I'll go see my 1/4 mile times and post pics. Damn I'm so antsy haha

Anyway why a 4cyl pulley? Is it more overdrive than a stock pulley? I can't seem too find that 1.8 pulley again and most underdrive setups claim stock alt charge. Any suggestions?
a tfs stage 1 cam is much better for a blown application if you're not wanting to go custom grind. also, they're cheap!
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Old 04-17-2009, 06:10 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by xpunisher1x View Post
Haha yeah I agree about the ecam. I know that ford racing suggests that cam for superchargeds on summits site. I also know that I really liked my e cam setup before I fried my rings last summer which is what started this. U see I bought this beast from a friend of mine who bought it built with all 93 cobra under the hood and back. Minus a few things so it was a monster to start. Once I'm done I'm gonna drive to niagra and back from Baltimore to break it in then I'll go see my 1/4 mile times and post pics. Damn I'm so antsy haha

Anyway why a 4cyl pulley? Is it more overdrive than a stock pulley? I can't seem too find that 1.8 pulley again and most underdrive setups claim stock alt charge. Any suggestions?
i just suggested it cause 4cyl alter. are plentiful... and you usually can get them for cheap all the way up to free if it is a bad one. they will overdrive your 3g if u need a overdrive pulley. but im sure you can buy a pretty anodized one for a few bucks if you so desire. just another one of my money saving suggestions is all.
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Old 04-19-2009, 09:56 PM   #28
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

cool. yeah i would love to have an FU cam haha. cause then thats what everyone would be yelling at me when i'm taking theyre pinks lol.

oh yeah so i hear a lot of arguments for billet vs. aluminum flywheels in daily drivers. especially on the clutch wear, spin down and driveability isues. any comments?
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Old 04-19-2009, 09:59 PM   #29
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

also how do i know wether its 50oz or 28oz? is the 50 for 5.0s and 28 for the 4 bangers? i should probably just weigh the damn thing
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Old 04-19-2009, 10:45 PM   #30
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

your going to be a 50oz imbalance, the 82 and newer 5.0's use the 50oz imbalance of the flywheel/balancer/etc where as the older and most aftermarket stroker kits use the 28oz imbalance.
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Old 04-20-2009, 12:13 AM   #31
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Re: noob buildin'... its a doozy

sweet thanks
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