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Old 04-03-2011, 06:47 AM   #1
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I'm trying to decried what route to go with my mustang. I have an 89 fox body with ported gt40p heads, f cam, ported cobra intake from a 93, 24lb venom injectors, 76mm Bbk maf sensor tuned for cold air intake and calibrated for 24lbs injectors, Bbk cold air intake piped into the fender well, cobra headers off a 93 and a Bbk H pipe with two high flow cats. No smog pump or ac. Here's my issues I'm trying to decide on what size throttle body to get and weather or not to eliminate the erg. I'm either going to get a 75 or 80mm throttle body. The only problem with the 80 is only comes without the erg hook up but I'm not worried bout passing smog I'm just wondering what that'll do to my car driveability wise. I know I would have to get my computer reprogrammed to run without the erg I'm just wondering if its worth the hassle to eliminate egr and would there be any noticeable gain? Also with all the aftermarket work that's done to it should I have my ecu reprogrammed and would there be any gain to doing that at this point or would it help it run better or even get me any faster throttle response? I have the stock throttle body that came with the car on there now and it's robbing me of horsepower so if anyone has good advice I'd really appreciate it I wanna get this squared away so I can focus on finding a six speed and then a set of gears
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Old 04-03-2011, 06:54 AM   #2
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:29 AM   #3
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Your computer doesn't program. There are chips and custom pcm's. Best idea I can come up with is get it inspected and then eliminate egr. Do the upgrades after and get a shop to test it after. If it doesn't pass after, just swap it back when it needs another inspection. Little work but better than failing inspection.
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:45 AM   #4
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Re: Eliminating my EGR

I recommend deleting it to everybody, such as yourself, who is not worried about passing smog.

I'm not familiar with how the EGR mounts up on your engine, but on mine, all I had to do was remove all the pieces, and attach a block plate to the port on the upper intake. I already had headers at the time that didn't allow for the EGR tube so I didn't have to mess with that aspect. The only reason you need your computer programmed or chipped for this is to remove the CEL you will get. If you don't mind the CEL being on all the time (I couldn't take it) you can leave it. Otherwise you can take it to a dynotune shop and they should be able to remove it fairly easily.

As for drive factors, you wont notice a difference. Some try to say not having one affects your gas mileage, but my personal opinion is that they are paranoid. You are removing a source of filthy, hot air being directly injected into your intake...you can't tell me that doesn't have an effect (small) on performance.
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Old 04-03-2011, 08:35 AM   #5
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His real concern is a smog test. I really don't think that the egr even opens at idle so it probably doesn't factor in the test anyway. But I would get it inspected first.
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Old 04-03-2011, 08:36 AM   #6
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Re: Eliminating my EGR

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Originally Posted by Mustang1968kr View Post
I'm not worried bout passing smog
...
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Old 04-03-2011, 08:43 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by DarkShadow

...
There goes my attention to detail. Maybe the word "not" isn't in my vocabulary. It's still early man.
Ok. Rip the egr off. You don't need it. Lol
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Old 04-05-2011, 12:54 PM   #8
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Re: Eliminating my EGR

first of all a 75 or 80 t/b is too big for that set-up. too much throttle body lowers your throttle response actual horse power (it slows down the intake velocity/air speed). 70 is big enough and leaves you room to grow. also, i dont think the intake opening is larger than 70ml for that intake anyway if i remember correctly.

(after removing the egr) leave the actual egr sensor hooked up to the plug so the pcm doesnt go into "open loop", if not u will get a c.e.l. and it may run a bit rich. i got a egr dummy sensor on ebay which makes the computer go into "closed loop" and doesnt trip a c.e.l. or make the car run rich
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Old 04-09-2011, 01:59 PM   #9
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Would the 75 or 80 mm t/b be too big if I'm planning on upping the injectors to 30 or 36 lbs and maf to match with a ram air set up? If so at what point would it make it worth it to go that large?
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Old 04-09-2011, 02:27 PM   #10
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With just a top end. U really don't need nothing bigger than 24s I'm running stock 19s with like a 65 throttle body. I never noticed a difference in tb size
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Old 04-09-2011, 03:17 PM   #11
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first of all a 75 or 80 t/b is too big for that set-up. too much throttle body lowers your throttle response actual horse power (it slows down the intake velocity/air speed). 70 is big enough and leaves you room to grow. also, i dont think the intake opening is larger than 70ml for that intake anyway if i remember correctly.

(after removing the egr) leave the actual egr sensor hooked up to the plug so the pcm doesnt go into "open loop", if not u will get a c.e.l. and it may run a bit rich. i got a egr dummy sensor on ebay which makes the computer go into "closed loop" and doesnt trip a c.e.l. or make the car run rich
Exactly. Anything over 70mm on an na motor is too big. Velocity is key
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Old 04-09-2011, 06:23 PM   #12
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Re: Eliminating my EGR

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Originally Posted by Mustang1968kr View Post
Would the 75 or 80 mm t/b be too big if I'm planning on upping the injectors to 30 or 36 lbs and maf to match with a ram air set up? If so at what point would it make it worth it to go that large?
I've never seen a ram air kit for the foxes that actually produced any real power. Every review I have ever read about them has actually been negative as they seem to introduce water into the intake tract.

There is no reason to up the injectors unless you also start making other changes, such as heads, cam and intake. The stock 19 lb injectors are fine until you get at least a mild HCI combo.

A 75 mm TB is overkill until you start talking about a serious HCI combo, assuming we are purely talking naturally aspirated.

You have to consider that the air must flow all the way from the filter to the combustion chamber. If you consider each piece along the way to be part of a "pipe" so to speak, you start to realize that just increasing the diameter of a single piece doesn't really make a difference. As long as the rest of the pipe is still small, the one piece you changed is at best useless. It can actually even slow down air flow due to decreased velocity as Everett mentioned.

The air filter and housing, mass air meter, throttle body, upper and lower intake and heads are all part of a larger system. They should all be sized to work properly conjunction with one another.
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Old 04-09-2011, 06:38 PM   #13
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Bunt has a good point. 19 pound injectors can support 280 hp at 80% duty cycle.
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Old 04-10-2011, 03:11 AM   #14
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I have ported cobra heads, an f cam, ported upper and lower cobra intake, 24lb injectors with 76mm maf calibrated for the injectors, cold air intake piped into the fender, cobra headers with Bbk x pipe. And your telling me that's not enough to go to at least a 75mm t/b? And the Kenny bell ram air kit is proven to add horsepower to the fox body mustang and that kit has an extra filter for water. And anyone with a ram air kit that's piped into the front bumper knows not to run there car it into puddles or in the rain unless there an idiot
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Old 04-10-2011, 08:59 AM   #15
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Re: Eliminating my EGR

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Originally Posted by Mustang1968kr View Post
I have ported cobra heads, an f cam, ported upper and lower cobra intake, 24lb injectors with 76mm maf calibrated for the injectors, cold air intake piped into the fender, cobra headers with Bbk x pipe. And your telling me that's not enough to go to at least a 75mm t/b? And the Kenny bell ram air kit is proven to add horsepower to the fox body mustang and that kit has an extra filter for water. And anyone with a ram air kit that's piped into the front bumper knows not to run there car it into puddles or in the rain unless there an idiot
ok.... ive stated it earlier.. then bbunt chimed in with the same thing. 75ml is too big for wut u have. even with the kenne bell blower 75 is too big. 70 is really the limit for your combo.. and 65 will work just fine.

bigger isnt always better. most cars that require a 75 or 80ml throttle body arent even street legal if that tells you anything.

a 75 or 80 is gonna hurt u. make your car think it has asthma. it will slow down the intake velocity..kill your bottom end torque and kill your top end h.p.

not only that... the cobra intake is one of the most restrictive aftermarket intakes available when it comes to making over 350h.p. even in ported form. again, im pretty sure the opening on that intake is only a 65ml anyway.

i run a waaay larger bbk ssi intake with 70ml tb and 30lbs injectors, ported heads, .529 lift cam and 11psi of boost. believe me when i tell u that 75 or 80 would hurt my car even under boost.

you do wut u want... but i urge u to do sum more research before u go that route. that's how ppl with smaller, cheaper, and better matched combos.... walk all over ppl with more expensive, larger, and poorly matched combos.

bigger isnt always better.
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Old 04-10-2011, 09:10 AM   #16
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Re: Eliminating my EGR

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Originally Posted by Mustang1968kr View Post
I have ported cobra heads, an f cam, ported upper and lower cobra intake, 24lb injectors with 76mm maf calibrated for the injectors, cold air intake piped into the fender, cobra headers with Bbk x pipe. And your telling me that's not enough to go to at least a 75mm t/b? And the Kenny bell ram air kit is proven to add horsepower to the fox body mustang and that kit has an extra filter for water. And anyone with a ram air kit that's piped into the front bumper knows not to run there car it into puddles or in the rain unless there an idiot
You really think a ram air kit is going to pick up power over your CAI? At what speed? What proof do you have? Did they put the dyno on the back of a trailor and drive down the interstate at 100 MPH? Did they dyno it in a wind tunnel? Ram air is useless without moving air, and not all that much more useful with it.

As far as avoiding puddles, sometimes it is unavoidable when it's raining out. You're basically saying you won't be able to drive your car in heavy rainstorms.

And I'm absolutely telling you that 75 mm throttle body is too big for your combo. 65 mm is what I would recommend. Honestly though with your combo, you probably aren't losing that much power with the stocker. You might pick up 7 rwhp in the upper RPMs.

If you really want to see a huge improvement in your car, let's talking about replacing that F303 cam....
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Old 04-10-2011, 10:31 AM   #17
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Ram air may give u more power under 20 mph. When u doing 75 down the interstate. There is going to be well enough air your car will everneed. Most intakes has a 75 mm opening. Trickflow street and track being one of them
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