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Old 03-14-2012, 06:07 PM   #316
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So I hooked up the dizzy,starter, and reconfiged the fuel lines.I still can't build pressure.it will run for a couple minutes then die.

I'm gonna try my original setup because it ran fine I just didn't have pressure on the gauge.when I drove it last time it seemed ok but when I got on it hard it died.I'm not sure if the original setup was the problem or not.the original setup was a filter with a tee running the tee into the return.

I even tried hooking the feed line directly to the carb and I still couldn't build good pressure.
what's funny is when I prime the pump the gauge will go up to about 4 then quickly drain down, even with no return.
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Old 03-14-2012, 06:26 PM   #317
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I just had a thought.what turns the fuel pump on?the reason I ask is because I unplugged the big gray harness that was on the stock dizzy.are any of those wires on the stock fuel pump controlling my fuel pump running.because its almost like the pumps not running when I start it.its like it will run for a short time perfectly then run out of fuel.
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Old 03-14-2012, 06:59 PM   #318
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Re: what it takes...

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Originally Posted by dreamstang View Post
So I hooked up the dizzy,starter, and reconfiged the fuel lines.I still can't build pressure.it will run for a couple minutes then die.

I'm gonna try my original setup because it ran fine I just didn't have pressure on the gauge.when I drove it last time it seemed ok but when I got on it hard it died.I'm not sure if the original setup was the problem or not.the original setup was a filter with a tee running the tee into the return.

I even tried hooking the feed line directly to the carb and I still couldn't build good pressure.
what's funny is when I prime the pump the gauge will go up to about 4 then quickly drain down, even with no return.
Something isn't right in your fuel system. It should hold pressure for a while anyways. It's bleeding off somewhere, whether through the car or regulator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamstang View Post
I just had a thought.what turns the fuel pump on?the reason I ask is because I unplugged the big gray harness that was on the stock dizzy.are any of those wires on the stock fuel pump controlling my fuel pump running.because its almost like the pumps not running when I start it.its like it will run for a short time perfectly then run out of fuel.

Well on EFI the fuel pump is turned on whenever you turn the key on. It will pump up pressure and then stall out until more fuel is called for.
Are you still running through the relay under the seat?
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Old 03-14-2012, 07:07 PM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

Something isn't right in your fuel system. It should hold pressure for a while anyways. It's bleeding off somewhere, whether through the car or regulator.

Well on EFI the fuel pump is turned on whenever you turn the key on. It will pump up pressure and then stall out until more fuel is called for.
Are you still running through the relay under the seat?
Yes I'm still running through the relay.and I think I got it figured out.the ground on the relay runs/connects somehow to the ignition module.I need to reground the relay.
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Old 03-14-2012, 08:05 PM   #320
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thanx again trojan.one of these days ill have this beast running properly.i hope anyways.

as soon as i get this pump running right i can continue on the the pressure issue.alot of the fuel problem i was having before maybe related to the ground.the relay ground that runs to the ignition module runs through the ecm first. and my ecm is not really being used since im carberated.so i guess what im saying is it was not getting proper voltage/ground before.but i guess ill see once i get that resolved.
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Old 03-14-2012, 08:15 PM   #321
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Re: what it takes...

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thanx again trojan.one of these days ill have this beast running properly.i hope anyways.

as soon as i get this pump running right i can continue on the the pressure issue.alot of the fuel problem i was having before maybe related to the ground.the relay ground that runs to the ignition module runs through the ecm first. and my ecm is not really being used since im carberated.so i guess what im saying is it was not getting proper voltage/ground before.but i guess ill see once i get that resolved.
Yeah, you might want to find and read through a swap article to see if there are any other small details that might be causing you problems.
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Old 03-14-2012, 08:26 PM   #322
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I have read through numerous swap articles before.but I think your right now that I know a little more about what's going on ill check it out again.its so hard tracing previous owners.
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:50 PM   #323
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if i use the new fuel pump i got should i try to use the factory relay?if i did this then essentialy all i have to do is steel the wiring of the current pump and put it on the new pump.and also fix the ground issue.
or other option would be to get a new relay.
and last option is to not use a relay which im guessing is not recomended and just install an inline fuse.

---------- Post added at 09:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 PM ----------

the reason i ask is cause if i have to fiddle with that relay in the car and it cant be used for the new pump i may as well just install the new pump.which i think im just gonna do anyways.
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:53 PM   #324
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Re: what it takes...

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if i use the new fuel pump i got should i try to use the factory relay?if i did this then essentialy all i have to do is steel the wiring of the current pump and put it on the new pump.and also fix the ground issue.
or other option would be to get a new relay.
and last option is to not use a relay which im guessing is not recomended and just install an inline fuse.

---------- Post added at 09:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 PM ----------

the reason i ask is cause if i have to fiddle with that relay in the car and it cant be used for the new pump i may as well just install the new pump.which i think im just gonna do anyways.
Check the amp draw on the new pump.
As long as it does not exceed the amp capacity of the relay you should be able to use it without any problems.
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:19 PM   #325
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ok good. i did find this that helps confirm what was thought and helps with the fix.its nit a mustang but same idea.

http://www.914world.com/specs/SirAnd...lPumpRelay.php

thanx again TH.maybe if im feeling frisky i may start on it tomorow.
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:04 AM   #326
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Re: what it takes...

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ok good. i did find this that helps confirm what was thought and helps with the fix.its nit a mustang but same idea.

914World.com - The largest online 914 community

thanx again TH.maybe if im feeling frisky i may start on it tomorow.
If you need relays or other stuff, check this place out.
All kinds of useful items.


Surplus Center


Surplus Center 12 VDC Relays & Solenoids
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:05 PM   #327
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ok i looked into moving the ground wire.i am not great with wiring schematics but i looked at like 4 different ones including the back of my haynes manual.not 1 wire coming off the pump is labeled ground/signal or has a ground symbol on it.there is one wire i have basicaly narrowed it down to but i am a little nervous.i am going to take my schematic to work tomorow and have a ex mechanic/current electrician look at it for me.

but any ways the wire that i think it is the tan/light green wire going into pin 22 on the eec.does that sound right?
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:22 PM   #328
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Re: what it takes...

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ok i looked into moving the ground wire.i am not great with wiring schematics but i looked at like 4 different ones including the back of my haynes manual.not 1 wire coming off the pump is labeled ground/signal or has a ground symbol on it.there is one wire i have basicaly narrowed it down to but i am a little nervous.i am going to take my schematic to work tomorow and have a ex mechanic/current electrician look at it for me.

but any ways the wire that i think it is the tan/light green wire going into pin 22 on the eec.does that sound right?
Yes, the tan/light green is the ground for the relay coil.
The red wire is the power wire for the relay coil.


The pink/black is the power wire to the pump.
The black/orange is the main power feed to the relay that powers the pump.


I don't see the pump ground wire in that diagram.
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:40 PM   #329
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thats what im saying.nothing is labeled ground.i talked to summit tech and jegs tech and the called it the ground signaler maybe.i just wonder if its not technically a normal ground.

so u think i should try putting the wire i mentioned to ground?
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:59 PM   #330
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Re: what it takes...

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thats what im saying.nothing is labeled ground.i talked to summit tech and jegs tech and the called it the ground signaler maybe.i just wonder if its not technically a normal ground.

so u think i should try putting the wire i mentioned to ground?


What he meant is that, that wire provides the ground/signal to the relay coil to activate it so the fuel pump gets power through the relay contacts.


That wire is just feeding the relay coil, not the pump.
I'm not sure what grounding it separately it might do to the rest of the system.
Just verify that the relay clicks on when you turn on the switch.
I'd be more concerned with the fuel pump motor ground as I don't see where it is in that diagram.


I have to wonder just how much of the EFI system is still functional or even needed.


You might consider just running new wiring and relay to the pump separate from the old EFI wiring.
You can pick up a positive signal wire for the relay from any fuse or terminal that energizes when the switch is turned on and a ground from any metal surface on the car if it is properly grounded or the battery itself.
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:13 PM   #331
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did you check out the link i posted above? i may not be explaining exactly right but what im doing is pretty much what they did in that article.

i also dont think that my eec is being used at all.i think that this was the last thing running off of it.i haved removed a good portion of the eec harness.and the only reason i havent removed everything is because i am a chicken chit.lol.especilly because some of the PO hack jobs on everything so i am scared that if i remove something i will kill something else.

i am sorry if i am making this difficult but i guess i just have it stuck in my head that i want to use the factory relay.the benifits i see in doing this are :the relay is already hidden under seat so i wont have to add any extra components(cleaner look).and i will have factory stle connections and quality.once this is done it wont be using the eec anymore then hopefully i will be one step closer to tossing the eec.
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:33 PM   #332
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Re: what it takes...

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did you check out the link i posted above? i may not be explaining exactly right but what im doing is pretty much what they did in that article.

i also dont think that my eec is being used at all.i think that this was the last thing running off of it.i haved removed a good portion of the eec harness.and the only reason i havent removed everything is because i am a chicken chit.lol.especilly because some of the PO hack jobs on everything so i am scared that if i remove something i will kill something else.

i am sorry if i am making this difficult but i guess i just have it stuck in my head that i want to use the factory relay.the benifits i see in doing this are :the relay is already hidden under seat so i wont have to add any extra components(cleaner look).and i will have factory stle connections and quality.once this is done it wont be using the eec anymore then hopefully i will be one step closer to tossing the eec.
I did check out the link, but it didn't make much sense to me.


Just completely disconnect the relay from the computer wires and power it up and ground it separately and you shouldn't have any problems.
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:37 PM   #333
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ok ill look into that.as soon as i get some time ill pull the kick panel off and see what i can do.thanx.

i apologize again for being difficult.and i appreciate your patience.
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:58 PM   #334
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Re: what it takes...

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ok ill look into that.as soon as i get some time ill pull the kick panel off and see what i can do.thanx.

i apologize again for being difficult.and i appreciate your patience.
Not at all.
Once you have the fuel relay/pump powered from elsewhere, I'd just remove the ECU and see if the car will start and run.
We just have to align our thinking so we are both going down the same path.
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:04 PM   #335
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i may do that.

this is probably the most complicated build i have done.ill keep you updated on how it turns out..
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Old 03-18-2012, 04:55 PM   #336
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6 mother fn psi at my carb finally.yay.

I cut the tan/light green wire off of the fp relay and bolted it to my seat bracket and it works great now.when I started it up I was running 10psi with no return or reg.I hooked up the reg and left the return off and I was able to adjust the reg anywhere from 6-10 psi with whatever pump is still in there.but I get no pressure drop during revs and its running good.so I'm gonna leave it as is.

I took it for a 15 minute test drive.the first real drive since all the upgrades and I am very pleased.I got on it once at about 35 and got really sideways.I didn't want to drive it to long cause I still haven't hooked up the rest of my gauges.

And the new starter works good also.after the test drive it cranked right up.so hopefully all bugs worked out.my next project is putting on my gauge pod and then 10 series flowmasters.then after that I'm gonna put in my new control arms,torque box reinforcements, and sub frames.

---------- Post added at 04:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:49 PM ----------

Oh also forgot to mention.I am running my feed off the factory chrome lines.so I flared the end of the line so my mine can't fall off.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:38 PM   #337
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Also time to get a new project folder. Lmao its overflowing pretty good.
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Old 03-18-2012, 06:01 PM   #338
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Re: what it takes...

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6 mother fn psi at my carb finally.yay.

I cut the tan/light green wire off of the fp relay and bolted it to my seat bracket and it works great now.when I started it up I was running 10psi with no return or reg.I hooked up the reg and left the return off and I was able to adjust the reg anywhere from 6-10 psi with whatever pump is still in there.but I get no pressure drop during revs and its running good.so I'm gonna leave it as is.

I took it for a 15 minute test drive.the first real drive since all the upgrades and I am very pleased.I got on it once at about 35 and got really sideways.I didn't want to drive it to long cause I still haven't hooked up the rest of my gauges.

And the new starter works good also.after the test drive it cranked right up.so hopefully all bugs worked out.my next project is putting on my gauge pod and then 10 series flowmasters.then after that I'm gonna put in my new control arms,torque box reinforcements, and sub frames.

---------- Post added at 04:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:49 PM ----------

Oh also forgot to mention.I am running my feed off the factory chrome lines.so I flared the end of the line so my mine can't fall off.
All right! Glad everything has started to come together for you.


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Also time to get a new project folder. Lmao its overflowing pretty good.

Yeah it's pretty full. I haven't seen mine for quite some time. I made the mistake of bringing it in the house about 3 years ago, then I got injured and my wife "put it away". It's likely to be a major undertaking just to find it again.
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:53 PM   #339
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10 series installed.if you would like to hear the vid I posted it up in the pic and video section in the exhaust thread.it is so loud I can't get rid of the distortion on revs.

I think next ill tackle rewiring my tac to the msd box and hooking up the gauge pod.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:08 PM   #340
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10 series installed.if you would like to hear the vid I posted it up in the pic and video section in the exhaust thread.it is so loud I can't get rid of the distortion on revs.

I think next ill tackle rewiring my tac to the msd box and hooking up the gauge pod.
It's definitely LOUD! Watch out for the Po Po.


Put a piece of foam over the microphone.
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:37 PM   #341
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I blew a head gasket already.
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:44 PM   #342
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Here's a vid of me getting on it.about 5 seconds after the vid.it started making a loud clanking noise the didn't match rpm.it sound almost like something was hitting the valve cover about once every 2 seconds.so I towed it home and pulled the cover.see pics.The one is my breather and the others the inside of my valve cover.I checked the radiator and it looked clean and pulled the dip stick and it was clean.

Now to figure out the clank noise.it was coming from the passenger side valve cover area.all the valve train still looked ok.

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Old 03-26-2012, 08:05 PM   #343
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Re: what it takes...

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I blew a head gasket already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamstang View Post
Here's a vid of me getting on it.about 5 seconds after the vid.it started making a loud clanking noise the didn't match rpm.it sound almost like something was hitting the valve cover about once every 2 seconds.so I towed it home and pulled the cover.see pics.The one is my breather and the others the inside of my valve cover.I checked the radiator and it looked clean and pulled the dip stick and it was clean.

Now to figure out the clank noise.it was coming from the passenger side valve cover area.all the valve train still looked ok.

Damn that just sux.


That's definitely coolant in oil there.
I pray it didn't "hydraulic" a cylinder on you.
The cam turns 1/2 the speed of the crank and that may account for the noise not matching the RPM. Check your pushrods to see if one or more are bent when you disassemble.


Sorry that happened.
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Old 03-26-2012, 08:15 PM   #344
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Then that's what I hope to.could I have bent a connecting rod also?I can tell that by just turning the motor over by hand right?

Then ill have to figure out why it blew so when I fix it,it doesn't happen again.I checked the deck with a straight edge.I even ran a stone over it and made sure there were no burrs.I used the Felpro gaskets that trickflow recommends.

This sux!!!!!!!!!
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Old 03-26-2012, 08:51 PM   #345
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Then that's what I hope to.could I have bent a connecting rod also?I can tell that by just turning the motor over by hand right?

Then ill have to figure out why it blew so when I fix it,it doesn't happen again.I checked the deck with a straight edge.I even ran a stone over it and made sure there were no burrs.I used the Felpro gaskets that trickflow recommends.

This sux!!!!!!!!!
Bending a connecting rod is what I was worried about (hydraulic) if it got enough water in a cylinder.
Depending on how bad it bent (if it did) you may or may not be able to tell by rolling it over by hand.


Make sure you didn't get a gasket on wrong when you remove them, but they are usually marked "front".
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Old 03-26-2012, 08:56 PM   #346
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ok thanx.

you said pushrods,so you threw me off a little.i shouldnt have bent a pushrod, should i have?

it maybe a little bit before i get into it.i am putting my mustang on timeout.
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:01 PM   #347
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ok thanx.

you said pushrods,so you threw me off a little.i shouldnt have bent a pushrod, should i have?

it maybe a little bit before i get into it.i am putting my mustang on timeout.
It could have bent a pushrod, but that wouldn't explain the water.
I've had stock pushrods give out under high and mid RPMs.
The lower range failures were probably due to earlier high RPM runs though, where the pushrod bent a little and was already weakened.
I don't blame you, I'd need a timeout too.

P.S. I'd ensure there wasn't any water setting in the cylinders before you take a break.
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:07 PM   #348
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i do have trickflow chromoly pushrods.you cant run the stock pushrods with the 170 tfs heads.mine are a 1/2" longer than stock.but i will def check them.it would make some sense as to why the noise was so loud in the valve cover area.

---------- Post added at 09:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 PM ----------

whats the best/easiest way to check water in the cylinders? just pull the plugs or take the head off?

and is there any other way to tell if the connecting rods are bent?
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:12 PM   #349
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i do have trickflow chromoly pushrods.you cant run the stock pushrods with the 170 tfs heads.mine are a 1/2" longer than stock.but i will def check them.it would make some sense as to why the noise was so loud in the valve cover area.

---------- Post added at 09:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 PM ----------

whats the best/easiest way to check water in the cylinders? just pull the plugs or take the head off?

and is there any other way to tell if the connecting rods are bent?
Those pushrods should be ok then.


I'd go ahead and pull the heads to check for water and if you rotate the engine over by hand you may be able to tell if any rods are bent if you have a piston or two that doesn't come up in the bore as far as the others do.


Other than that you'd have to pull the oil pan and do a visual check.
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:16 PM   #350
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ok good. thanx again.ill update as soon as i get to it.as thick as the creamy mixture was it probably wont dry in a couple days.so in the next few days ill pull it apart.i would do it tommorow but i have a brake job to do.
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