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Old 03-26-2012, 11:36 PM   #351
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What was the timing at when the gasket blew and I'm just saying that the gaskets go on a certain way
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:28 AM   #352
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I was running right in between 14-15 * base timing and 35-36 * total timing.I've heard of people saying that around 17* of base is the sweet spot for these heads.I am also running 93 octane fuel.

It's been a little bit since I assembled the heads.I do remember something about the certain water jacket going a certain way.and I followed the instructions as to which way that was.but who know maybe I goofed.I actually hope I goofed so I have some piece if mind after the next set.
Thanx for the input.
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:34 PM   #353
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Ok I need you to verify a couple things for me before I get into the motor.

I can reuse my new arp head studs.I will run a nut on them to make sure they are not stretched.

I can't reuse the intake gasket

Do I need to keep my pushrods,rr etc to the same orientation as they are now? I know that's what you usually do but I figured since they are still basically brand new and not worn it may not matter.
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Old 03-27-2012, 04:13 PM   #354
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Re: what it takes...

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Ok I need you to verify a couple things for me before I get into the motor.

I can reuse my new arp head studs.I will run a nut on them to make sure they are not stretched.

I can't reuse the intake gasket

Do I need to keep my pushrods,rr etc to the same orientation as they are now? I know that's what you usually do but I figured since they are still basically brand new and not worn it may not matter.
1. Yes, you should be able to re-use the studs.


2. You could possibly re-use the intake gaskets as they were not on there very long and had not gone through numerous heating and cooling cycles. If you do I would spray them with some Permatex Copper Coat on each side and wipe a thin layer of silicone around the water jacket ports on each side.


3. Pushrods shouldn't matter as they had not had time to wear in yet.
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:32 PM   #355
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Ok cool.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:26 PM   #356
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I just had a thought.I probably shouldn't be doing to much thinking till I pull the head but, I wonder if the stock bore gasket was the problem with mine being .030 over.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:46 PM   #357
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Re: what it takes...

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I just had a thought.I probably shouldn't be doing to much thinking till I pull the head but, I wonder if the stock bore gasket was the problem with mine being .030 over.
Maybe, if it protruded into the cylinder bore or was not in the correct "clamping area" of the head to block surface.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:57 PM   #358
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It probably leaked pass the metal ring on the gasket. I heard u need a bigger gasket then what ur bore is
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:22 PM   #359
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I don't think the plugs have enough miles on them to tell anything but here's a pic
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:25 PM   #360
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Tan is the color u want.. It doesn't matter how many miles with the plugs really they will tell u a story real quick with just a couple minutes of running
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:34 PM   #361
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Tan is the color u want.. It doesn't matter how many miles with the plugs really they will tell u a story real quick with just a couple minutes of running
It looks pretty tan to me? You think that looks good?
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:58 PM   #362
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Let me know if u need a hand, ill make sometime... We will get it back together in no time
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:05 PM   #363
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Let me know if u need a hand, ill make sometime... We will get it back together in no time
Sweet I gotta wait till I can afford some new gaskets oil and all that junk.but ill let you know
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:52 PM   #364
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Re: what it takes...

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It looks pretty tan to me? You think that looks good?
The plug looks ok for what time you ran it.
The best way to get a good reading is to make a "run" and then shut it off right after with very little idling or low speed running.
That will give you the best indication of what the cylinders are doing.
Idling and low speed, especially with a carb might give you some false indications.
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:25 PM   #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

The plug looks ok for what time you ran it.
The best way to get a good reading is to make a "run" and then shut it off right after with very little idling or low speed running.
That will give you the best indication of what the cylinders are doing.
Idling and low speed, especially with a carb might give you some false indications.
Well technically that's what I did.it only ran for maybe 10-15 seconds after the video I took.
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:44 PM   #366
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Re: what it takes...

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Well technically that's what I did.it only ran for maybe 10-15 seconds after the video I took.
True, but until it has ran long enough to heat cycle a few times and everything is sealed up good again it will be difficult to get an accurate reading, plus it may have eaten a bit of coolant in the process?
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:10 PM   #367
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I'm gonna pull a head tonight.summit racing says that the gasket I had is ONLY for stock bore and is most likely the problem.I post a pic of the gasket later so we can see if that looks to be the case.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:59 PM   #368
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Re: what it takes...

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I'm gonna pull a head tonight.summit racing says that the gasket I had is ONLY for stock bore and is most likely the problem.I post a pic of the gasket later so we can see if that looks to be the case.
I was afraid that might be the case. The bore seal surface of the gasket is probably to close to the bore and wasn't clamped down good enough.
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:03 PM   #369
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Live and learn I guess.I was a little worried when I bought them but thought it would be ok.I am pretty sure it wasn't overlapping or anything.I'm gonna get started on it in a little bit.
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:31 PM   #370
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Re: what it takes...

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Live and learn I guess.I was a little worried when I bought them but thought it would be ok.I am pretty sure it wasn't overlapping or anything.I'm gonna get started on it in a little bit.
I really have never ran into a scenario like this before.
When rebuilding I always ordered gasket kits and just specified the bore.
I was lucky I guess to always get the correct gaskets.


Now pistons are another thing. I ordered a set of .030 over forged TRW's once. Sent them with the block to the machine shop with instructions for them to "fit" each piston to a specific bore with a specific clearance. They came back marked for each bore, I blindly and trustingly assembled the engine (In hindsight I should have checked each piston, but thought I was safe because they were supposed to be fitted to each bore.), only to find out after it was installed and started up that one of the pistons was actually a standard bore and had been incorrectly marked at the factory. When the engine you just spent several thousand dollars on is sitting there running and knocking it sure lets the air out of you balloon pretty fast. TRW sent me a new piston and a check for a whopping $100 to pay for the change out. Needless to say I have never bought another one of their products since then.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:19 PM   #371
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Ok, so know I'm just confused.the gaskets look great.any suggestions?
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:26 PM   #372
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Re: what it takes...

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Ok, so know I'm just confused.the gaskets look great.any suggestions?
Wow .
I'm at a loss.


How were the intake gaskets? Any indication of water leakage on them?
Check the heads carefully for any cracks or possible casting flaws.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:27 PM   #373
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In the second picture, what is that a freeze plug?its filled with the creamy substance.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:30 PM   #374
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Well I rtv'ed the water jackets on the intake.so when I pulled them off they broke on them spots.but besides that they look ok.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:34 PM   #375
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Re: what it takes...

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In the second picture, what is that a freeze plug?its filled with the creamy substance.
That leads into your oil galleys, but it shouldn't be leaking.


Did you determine if you have a bent rod or not?
Now I'm concerned about the block being cracked.
Did one of your head studs possibly break through into a water jacket?


Grasping at straws.....
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:39 PM   #376
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Lemme check.how can I tell if the head studs broke into a water jacket?just a visual?
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:49 PM   #377
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Re: what it takes...

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Lemme check.how can I tell if the head studs broke into a water jacket?just a visual?
Probably have to pull them out and look, but you may be able to see evidence of coolant around them.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:55 PM   #378
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It looks like all the holes where the head bolts go, go into the coolant passage.

Rods are fine
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:02 PM   #379
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See what I mean?
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:53 PM   #380
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Re: what it takes...

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See what I mean?
Yes I do. If there are no cracks through the block, that is probably ok and the engine block may be that way from the factory. It's been a long time since I had one apart and I really can't remember if that is the norm.
Not really desirable, but it shouldn't be a huge issue.
Just be sure to use some sealant on the stud threads when you replace them.
I use the Permatex Aviation Sealant myself and it works very well for that purpose.


I'm at a loss as to where or what you should check next other than the heads and intake water passages.
The coolant got into the oil from somewhere, finding out exactly where may be a chore.
You may have to get it all reassembled and then rig up some ways to plug off and pressure test the block.


Is the pan full of the milky oil or was it confined to the top of the heads?
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:56 PM   #381
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Re: what it takes...

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It looks like all the holes where the head bolts go, go into the coolant passage.

Rods are fine
Has that piston on the end been scoured free of carbon by you or was it like that when you took it apart?
I ask because water/coolant tends to do that when ran through an engine and I was thinking you might want to concentrate your search in that area.
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:04 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

Yes I do. If there are no cracks through the block, that is probably ok and the engine block may be that way from the factory. It's been a long time since I had one apart and I really can't remember if that is the norm.
Not really desirable, but it shouldn't be a huge issue.
Just be sure to use some sealant on the stud threads when you replace them.
I use the Permatex Aviation Sealant myself and it works very well for that purpose.

I'm at a loss as to where or what you should check next other than the heads and intake water passages.
The coolant got into the oil from somewhere, finding out exactly where may be a chore.
You may have to get it all reassembled and then rig up some ways to plug off and pressure test the block.

Is the pan full of the milky oil or was it confined to the top of the heads?
I only drained the coolant.I never drained the oil yet.but I guess I should have did that first.but I'm sure its in the pan because when I pulled the dizzy I saw some on the cam gear.

---------- Post added at 08:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:57 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

Has that piston on the end been scoured free of carbon by you or was it like that when you took it apart?
I ask because water/coolant tends to do that when ran through an engine and I was thinking you might want to concentrate your search in that area.
Now that you mention that.I am gonna look back at my old pics.I cleaned number 2 before I assembled to get the numbers off the piston . But I don't remember cleaning number 1. And it looks washed off compared to the wiping off of number 2.
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:28 PM   #383
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Pic.
I'm gonna do a little research.I checked over the area around number one real good.I just don't know what to do.I'm gonna get a better straight edge and check the deck real good.I just don't want to reassemble without knowing the problem.I do have some time cause I don't really have the funds to fix it for at least a few weeks.so if you think of anything let me know.thanx
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:36 PM   #384
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Pic.
I'm gonna do a little research.I checked over the area around number one real good.I just don't know what to do.I'm gonna get a better straight edge and check the deck real good.I just don't want to reassemble without knowing the problem.I do have some time cause I don't really have the funds to fix it for at least a few weeks.so if you think of anything let me know.thanx
Will do, sorry you are having so many problems.
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:42 PM   #385
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Yeah I am one of those guys that has bad luck all the time.if I didn't have that then I wouldn't have any luck at all.I'm not to worried about it.it sux of course but I haven't really drove it much in the last 3 1/2 years whats a while longer.its just my toy.if I can't come up with some logical reason why the gasket failed I may look for a new block.I really hate to play the game of assemble reassemble.but before I go that route I'm gonna see what I can come up with.
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