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Old 11-19-2011, 03:26 PM   #71
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Re: what it takes...

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Originally Posted by dreamstang View Post
I should be able to hook up the btm now even though I'm not s/ced yet.I want to make sure it works since it was an eBay purchase.I know it won't retard the timing and all but the rest of the box should still work similar of a 6al or comparable right?
Yes, it should work and if you wanted to go through the trouble, you could set up a low pressure air tank and valve assembly to test the timing retard function.
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Old 11-19-2011, 03:58 PM   #72
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Cool .thanx TH
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Old 11-19-2011, 05:18 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

Yes, it should work and if you wanted to go through the trouble, you could set up a low pressure air tank and valve assembly to test the timing retard function.
It would have to pull vacuum ,not push air right?how would I tell if it was retarding it,by the way it ran?my guess without boost and not needing to it will run rich a little bit and not run as strong.
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Old 11-19-2011, 07:29 PM   #74
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Re: what it takes...

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It would have to pull vacuum ,not push air right?how would I tell if it was retarding it,by the way it ran?my guess without boost and not needing to it will run rich a little bit and not run as strong.
Right now if you hooked the BTM to an intake port it would be subject to vaccum and not work, but when you go to forced induction pressure will be pushed from the intake to the fitting on the BTM. As the boost pressure increases the more the BTM will retard the timing.

You can test it by using a small tank of air (10-15 psi or less) connected to the BTM to simulate boost pressure. You can check the retard feature with a timing light.

I'm not sure if it will work at idle, you may have to rev 2-3K to see the retard function. Read through the install instructions and see if it tells you.

The BTM won't affect the fuel mixture, just the timing.
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Old 11-19-2011, 08:06 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

Right now if you hooked the BTM to an intake port it would be subject to vaccum and not work, but when you go to forced induction pressure will be pushed from the intake to the fitting on the BTM. As the boost pressure increases the more the BTM will retard the timing.

You can test it by using a small tank of air (10-15 psi or less) connected to the BTM to simulate boost pressure. You can check the retard feature with a timing light.

I'm not sure if it will work at idle, you may have to rev 2-3K to see the retard function. Read through the install instructions and see if it tells you.

The BTM won't affect the fuel mixture, just the timing.
Ok that makes sense.I can just set my regulator on my compressor to desired psi and rig it to the box.
I know it didn't affect fuel mixture I just assumed if I retarded it a lot it may not burn all the fuel leaving a rich smell.
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Old 11-19-2011, 10:40 PM   #76
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Re: what it takes...

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Ok that makes sense.I can just set my regulator on my compressor to desired psi and rig it to the box.
I know it didn't affect fuel mixture I just assumed if I retarded it a lot it may not burn all the fuel leaving a rich smell.
Yeah, I guess if you retarded it enough it might do that. Long day and pain meds make you dumber sometimes.
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Old 11-20-2011, 10:30 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

Yeah, I guess if you retarded it enough it might do that. Long day and pain meds make you dumber sometimes.
I will take medded Trojan advice any day of the week.it was actually a silly question anyways I was tired as well.timing light should work great.I do have one and should have known to check with that.lol.I guess I just usually associate timing light with adjusting distributor.
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Old 11-20-2011, 12:00 PM   #78
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Re: what it takes...

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I will take medded Trojan advice any day of the week.it was actually a silly question anyways I was tired as well.timing light should work great.I do have one and should have known to check with that.lol.I guess I just usually associate timing light with adjusting distributor.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, now if I can keep my screw ups to a minimum we'll be ok.
I know all about being tired and unable to think clearly too.
Sometimes I look at questions and just have to think on them a while before I can come up with a coherent answer.
Dealing with my injuries and associated pain have left me unable to sleep for more than 4-6 hours at a time over the last couple of years even with pain meds and it has me just worn to a nub.
Wah wah wah. That's enough crybaby for now.

Keep me updated on your progress, I'm interested in seeing how it turns out.
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Old 11-20-2011, 12:34 PM   #79
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hey screw ups only make u human .i hope to get the missing knob within a few weeks then i will hook that up.then on to the rest of the list.estimated time on first fire up - mid march.
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Old 11-24-2011, 03:41 PM   #80
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Fuel pump - check
Fuel pressure regulator- check
Timing knob- friday
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:49 PM   #81
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So I call summit today to get my retard control knob .the salesmen couldn't find my part even after me giving him the part number and him calling msd.he started to get irritated with me after me telling him how much better the last guy I spoke with was.he gave me msd's phone number.I didn't know u can order directly from msd.but I got my part for half the price cutting summit out of the mix.42$ shipped

Retard control knob - check
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Old 12-03-2011, 06:04 PM   #82
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So I started hooking up the btm and I got a couple easy questions(hopefully).the wire that goes to the magnetic pickup in the ditributor,where does that go?all I have going to the distributer is one harness.I can post a pic if necessary.and the 2 wires going to the coil I just splice into the existing 2 or do I replace them.thanx
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Old 12-03-2011, 06:15 PM   #83
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Do I even use the magnetic pickup or the white wire?

---------- Post added at 06:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:05 PM ----------

Oh yeah,one more. Right now my tach is hooked up to my neg wire on the coil.there is a tach output on the box.that wire should go to that right?
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Old 12-04-2011, 04:23 PM   #84
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Re: what it takes...

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Originally Posted by dreamstang View Post
So I started hooking up the btm and I got a couple easy questions(hopefully).the wire that goes to the magnetic pickup in the ditributor,where does that go?all I have going to the distributer is one harness.I can post a pic if necessary.and the 2 wires going to the coil I just splice into the existing 2 or do I replace them.thanx
Attached are 2 pictures with wiring diagrams.
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Old 12-04-2011, 04:39 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

Attached are 2 pictures with wiring diagrams.
Perfect.I wasn't sure if I should start a new thread or not,then right when I did u come through like always.
The tac output should be hooked to my tac wire that currently goes to the neg coil?
Should I keep all my intall questions on this thread or start New ones?

Thanx a million Trojan!
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:04 PM   #86
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Re: what it takes...

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Originally Posted by dreamstang View Post
Perfect.I wasn't sure if I should start a new thread or not,then right when I did u come through like always.
The tac output should be hooked to my tac wire that currently goes to the neg coil?
Should I keep all my intall questions on this thread or start New ones?

Thanx a million Trojan!
You're welcome.
Not necessarily, the tach output on the MSD box is usually used for distributorless engines.
If yours works ok as is, leave it.

If your questions/posts pertain directly to this thread, just keep them here all in one place. If you have other differing questions or posts then start a new thread.
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:13 PM   #87
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Ok good.thanx again.
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:03 PM   #88
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1 more for ya.you said leave the tac the way it is.dos that mean leave it spliced to wire its on that's not gonna be on the coil anymore.or should I splice it to the new wire that's gonna be on the neg coil.sorry for so many questions I just want to make sure its right the first time.thanx
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:39 PM   #89
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Re: what it takes...

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1 more for ya.you said leave the tac the way it is.dos that mean leave it spliced to wire its on that's not gonna be on the coil anymore.or should I splice it to the new wire that's gonna be on the neg coil.sorry for so many questions I just want to make sure its right the first time.thanx
It has to be hooked to the neg side of the coil to pick up a signal.
If it is to much trouble to reconnect that way, then just try using the tach terminal on the MSD box.
The reason I'm concerned about moving the tach connection is that I've seen Ford do some strange things with wiring and I'm not 100% sure if you are using the factory tach that it will work properly off of the tach connection on the box.
Maybe someone else has done this and knows for sure?
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:00 PM   #90
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i am using an aftermarket tac but my factory tac is still hooked up.i need to unhook it cause it dosnt work properly.
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:28 PM   #91
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Re: what it takes...

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i am using an aftermarket tac but my factory tac is still hooked up.i need to unhook it cause it dosnt work properly.
In that case use the tach connection on the box if you want to. It will probably be easier to wire up.
P.S. Make sure all of your grounds are hooked up and in good condition.
The MSD ignition doesn't tolerate bad grounds very well and if it backfeeds it may destroy itself.
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:58 PM   #92
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so i have it hooked up and im not getting spark.i did the spark test in the directions and still nothing.i even bypassed the 12volt ignition wire straight to the battery and still nothing.if i do the test without the car running the box makes a funny noise when i put the white wire to ground.is this feedback that you speek of?maybe i should try getting a better ground.

---------- Post added at 06:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:45 PM ----------

also does the pill for the rev limiter have to be installed for it to work.i assumed that it would work just not the rev limiter.it doesnt say much in the instructions about it.
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:12 AM   #93
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Re: what it takes...

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so i have it hooked up and im not getting spark.i did the spark test in the directions and still nothing.i even bypassed the 12volt ignition wire straight to the battery and still nothing.if i do the test without the car running the box makes a funny noise when i put the white wire to ground.is this feedback that you speek of?maybe i should try getting a better ground.

---------- Post added at 06:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:45 PM ----------

also does the pill for the rev limiter have to be installed for it to work.i assumed that it would work just not the rev limiter.it doesnt say much in the instructions about it.
How did you wire it up?
With or without the harness?

Without the harness the "white wire" connects to your original negative coil wire like shown in the diagram above.

I never used a "pill" style rev limiter, so I'm not sure.
I wouldn't think that it had to be in there.

The feedback I'm talking about is when you don't have a good ground the electrical currents will sometimes "backfeed" through other electronics connected in the system in search of a ground. Electricity will always seek the shortest route, that's why you have to make sure the grounds are good and they are the shortest route.
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Old 12-07-2011, 05:20 AM   #94
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A lot of msd soft touch rev controls use the pill style.I hard wired it.I know for sure it is wired correctly.I checked it over and over.I to check all the proper wires with my volt meter.I even tryed bypassing the ignition wire straight to the battery.I tried moving the ground straight to the battery.
The noise it makes when I check for spark without cranking is hard to describe but sounds like a car stereo amlifier that's getting interferenc or when your tryining to tune an am radio.it is a kind of high pitched quiet buzzing sound.if that makes any sense.hopefully I didn't get ripped on my purchase.I'm not to worried ,I know a great electrician that specializes in electronic repair.before I go that far I am going to call msd tech today and ask them for help.thanx Trojan.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:14 PM   #95
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Re: what it takes...

I'm afraid that the box may be damaged if it does not produce any sparks when you run the tests.
As for the sound you hear, I have heard mine make similar noises when the engine is running, but they are not very loud and you had to have your ear almost on the box to hear it at all. A louder noise may be indicating an internal short.

Sorry, Best of luck to you.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:25 PM   #96
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Ok.I called msd and the box is def bad.there repair cost is 27min-82$ maximum.so I contacted the eBay seller right away and he apologized and said will refund me 60$ immediately.so at least he was cool about it.oh well.at least I got it figured out.all my wiring is were it needs to be.in the next week or so ill get it sent out.
The reason the noise was hearable is because I did a spark test without the car running or cranking.when I cranked it I could not hear it.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:29 PM   #97
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Re: what it takes...

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Ok.I called msd and the box is def bad.there repair cost is 27min-82$ maximum.so I contacted the eBay seller right away and he apologized and said will refund me 60$ immediately.so at least he was cool about it.oh well.at least I got it figured out.all my wiring is were it needs to be.in the next week or so ill get it sent out.
The reason the noise was hearable is because I did a spark test without the car running or cranking.when I cranked it I could not hear it.
You are lucky to have purchased from an honest person.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:37 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

You are lucky to have purchased from an honest person.
Yes very lucky.I am pretty picky about the sellers I buy from.sometimes when the budgets low we gotta try and save a dollar.I was devistated yesterday after I spent all kinds of time running all the wires making them pretty.I color coded and gauged all the wires properly and everything.then it didn't work. I went inside turned on my iPad then it wouldn't turn on. luckily I was able to fix that with a system reset.at least I didn't put the wires in the plastic conduit yet.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:48 PM   #99
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Yes very lucky.I am pretty picky about the sellers I buy from.sometimes when the budgets low we gotta try and save a dollar.I was devistated yesterday after I spent all kinds of time running all the wires making them pretty.I color coded and gauged all the wires properly and everything.then it didn't work. I went inside turned on my iPad then it wouldn't turn on. luckily I was able to fix that with a system reset.at least I didn't put the wires in the plastic conduit yet.

Yeah, that's a killer sick feeling in your stomach when a project you have spent much time and money on fails to come together.
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Old 12-21-2011, 03:59 PM   #100
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Ok so small update.my box has been repaired for 53$.I will not get it back till next week to hook it up.

Also I bought a 2 into 1 carb fuel line with a built in fuel pressure gauge.
I was thinking about picking up an AutoZone boost gauge.its equus.I've had those gauges on 2 previous vehicles with no problem.was just wondering any opinions on them.the thing I'm not sure about is it will be in the same pod as my tac and wideband a/f and they don't make w-a/f.so the question is if I have different brand gauges that still match is that tacky?it doesn't bother my but I don't want it to be stupid!
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Old 12-21-2011, 05:24 PM   #101
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oh yeah.after seeing xxstevo66 pulley setup it got me thinking about maybe custom fabbing a bracket for my belt tensioner.his is mounted on the drivers side by where the ac should be.im gonna have to look into this
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:16 AM   #102
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Re: what it takes...

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Ok so small update.my box has been repaired for 53$.I will not get it back till next week to hook it up.

Also I bought a 2 into 1 carb fuel line with a built in fuel pressure gauge.
I was thinking about picking up an AutoZone boost gauge.its equus.I've had those gauges on 2 previous vehicles with no problem.was just wondering any opinions on them.the thing I'm not sure about is it will be in the same pod as my tac and wideband a/f and they don't make w-a/f.so the question is if I have different brand gauges that still match is that tacky?it doesn't bother my but I don't want it to be stupid!
The Equus gauges are cheap gauges.
In my experience, sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.
That being said, "Sometimes you just gotta do what'cha gotta do."
Is that tacky? - Well, maybe to some, but if it doesn't bother you then don't worry about it. My stuff usually ends up mismatched too and it doesn't bother me a bit as long as it performs the function I need it for.
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Old 12-27-2011, 03:48 PM   #103
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Small update:I ordered my gauge pod that will hold my new gauges and hold my 5" tac that I already have.my btm should be back by the end of the week.hopefully there isn't snow on the ground so I can test drive it.usually my stang is covered and on dolleys by now.

I know the b cam isn't the best cam for a s/c but I have read about some people getting decent numbers with similiar setups.

I can't wait till I get all my parts and get them installed.this may not be possible without all of your input TH.I appreciate everything.

Also I ordered the " supertuning holleys " book so I am excited to get that in.I was also thinking about getting the book from 4secondsflat.com .that's the guy that did the article about reading spark plugs.that book gets into carb tuning as well as timing , ignition and other factors as well.
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Old 12-27-2011, 07:23 PM   #104
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Re: what it takes...

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Small update:I ordered my gauge pod that will hold my new gauges and hold my 5" tac that I already have.my btm should be back by the end of the week.hopefully there isn't snow on the ground so I can test drive it.usually my stang is covered and on dolleys by now.

I know the b cam isn't the best cam for a s/c but I have read about some people getting decent numbers with similiar setups.

I can't wait till I get all my parts and get them installed.this may not be possible without all of your input TH.I appreciate everything.

Also I ordered the " supertuning holleys " book so I am excited to get that in.I was also thinking about getting the book from 4secondsflat.com .that's the guy that did the article about reading spark plugs.that book gets into carb tuning as well as timing , ignition and other factors as well.
I'm happy you are getting it together and glad I could/can help you.
You will love the Supertuning book, it has a ton of information.
I ordered mine years ago when working to "make" a 750 Holley (it was what I had available) work on a 429 Ford engine. After reading the book and some work jetting and modifying the air bleeds the carb worked perfectly.

The 4secondsflat.com book sounds interesting I'll have to take a look at it.
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Old 12-30-2011, 07:31 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

I'm happy you are getting it together and glad I could/can help you.
You will love the Supertuning book, it has a ton of information.
I ordered mine years ago when working to "make" a 750 Holley (it was what I had available) work on a 429 Ford engine. After reading the book and some work jetting and modifying the air bleeds the carb worked perfectly.

The 4secondsflat.com book sounds interesting I'll have to take a look at it.
If u pick up the 4seconds flat book before I do let me know how it is.

I want to do all my tuning myself.I am not the most experienced.but I am a very mechanically inclined and very willing to learn.I study and research everything I do that I'm not 100% sure on.with that being was thinking it would not be worth it to have my car dyno tuned.I would like to see my numbers and all but even if I did get it professionally tuned I still have to be able to keep it in good tune myself. What is your thoughts on it? Also do dyno shops let u pay for "dyno time" and let u do the tuning yourself? The thing that scares me about professional dyno tune is that sometimes the "professionals" don't shoot for good/safe hp, they shoot for max hp which may not be reliable.
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