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Old 09-22-2011, 08:48 AM   #1
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What it takes for forced induction and much more...

I know to put a forced induction system on efi takes alot of work.tune,upgraded fuel and ignition systems,etc..what exactly does it take to do this on a carbed motor?my car has been converted to carb and this is a future plan.I plan on a low boost system.bigger carb? Ignition amplifier?turbos require adapter boxes?

Bcam,offenhauser 360 intake,gt40p heads ,msd coil,550 cfm holley,1 5/8 headers,no cats,flows.

Previous owner said my bottom end was built but u guys know how that goes sometimes.which is why I was thinking low boost,to play it safe.
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Old 09-22-2011, 12:28 PM   #2
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Re: what it takes...

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Originally Posted by dreamstang View Post
I know to put a forced induction system on efi takes alot of work.tune,upgraded fuel and ignition systems,etc..what exactly does it take to do this on a carbed motor?my car has been converted to carb and this is a future plan.I plan on a low boost system.bigger carb? Ignition amplifier?turbos require adapter boxes?

Bcam,offenhauser 360 intake,gt40p heads ,msd coil,550 cfm holley,1 5/8 headers,no cats,flows.

Previous owner said my bottom end was built but u guys know how that goes sometimes.which is why I was thinking low boost,to play it safe.
It will be about the same, but your tuning will be done manually with a carb and it will require some specialized components.
A carb hat or igloo, a blow through carb will be needed with the hat.
An ignition amplifier is always a good idea, as are special irridium fine tip spark plugs to ensure mixture ignition.
You will also have to periodically retune for temperature and humidity changes to keep your engine safe.

To me a carbed engine is much more difficult to tune and maintain than an EFI engine.
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Old 09-22-2011, 01:20 PM   #3
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What do you use to make sure its tuned properly? Air fuel gauge?

---------- Post added at 02:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:01 PM ----------

I meant staying tuned.

I've seen blowers that the carb sits on top.they probably require a cowl hood.but that's fine.I still believe they require special carbs but not blow bys.slowstang posted a really nice one before but I can't seem to find it.
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Old 09-22-2011, 05:45 PM   #4
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Here we go something like this.
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/WND-77-174FSB-1

---------- Post added at 06:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:36 PM ----------

Their is a really good instruction sheet on there it helps me a lot.

---------- Post added at 06:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 PM ----------

Thanx for the response TH
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Old 09-22-2011, 10:15 PM   #5
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Re: what it takes...

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What do you use to make sure its tuned properly? Air fuel gauge?

---------- Post added at 02:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:01 PM ----------

I meant staying tuned.

I've seen blowers that the carb sits on top.they probably require a cowl hood.but that's fine.I still believe they require special carbs but not blow bys.slowstang posted a really nice one before but I can't seem to find it.

Sorry, I dropped out on you. Took some pain meds and conked out.

Proper tuning will require that you learn how to read your spark plugs.
You can use a wide band A/F Gauge to help tune too. - Innovate
You will need to learn how to rejet the carb and work with the air bleeds to tune the mixture.
I would buy a book by Alex Warlordy on "How to Supertune Holley Carburetors". I bought one years ago and it was instrumental in learning how to tune a Holley carb for me.

If you go with a roots style blower you will be able to use a regular "draw through" carburetor.
If you go with a centrifugal blower or turbo you will have to use a hat & "blow through" carb or an igloo and a regular carb. The "igloo" completely surrounds and pressurizes the entire carb negating the need for a special carburetor.
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Old 09-23-2011, 07:44 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

It will be about the same, but your tuning will be done manually with a carb and it will require some specialized components.
A carb hat or igloo, a blow through carb will be needed with the hat.
An ignition amplifier is always a good idea, as are special irridium fine tip spark plugs to ensure mixture ignition.
You will also have to periodically retune for temperature and humidity changes to keep your engine safe.

To me a carbed engine is much more difficult to tune and maintain than an EFI engine.
So essentially depending on the weather if not tuned properly you run the risk of damaging your engine? I live in Michigan and our weather is all over the place during the summer months. So potentially if I did a TC or SC with a carb setup I would need to make sure it's tuned properly for that day?
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Old 09-23-2011, 08:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

Sorry, I dropped out on you. Took some pain meds and conked out.

Proper tuning will require that you learn how to read your spark plugs.
You can use a wide band A/F Gauge to help tune too. - Innovate
You will need to learn how to rejet the carb and work with the air bleeds to tune the mixture.
I would buy a book by Alex Warlordy on "How to Supertune Holley Carburetors". I bought one years ago and it was instrumental in learning how to tune a Holley carb for me.

If you go with a roots style blower you will be able to use a regular "draw through" carburetor.
If you go with a centrifugal blower or turbo you will have to use a hat & "blow through" carb or an igloo and a regular carb. The "igloo" completely surrounds and pressurizes the entire carb negating the need for a special carburetor.
so heres what im thinking for the blower i posted

ill get the book first thing.
better fuel pump 130-200 gph
colder spark plugs
bigger carb ,maybe 750 cfm
msd streetfire box .its not the best one but only 130$ should be efficient for me

do i need a better distributer also?
now the gauges you listed,should i go with the controller or is that more for efi applications?just the a/f gauge and boost gauge is what i was thinking.
when you say read the plugs you mean looking at carbon deposits,discoloration etc.etc.?
that should be about everything i need right?
sorry for so many questions.i just want to know what im getting into, price and work.
if thats all the parts i need a little over 4000$ should do it besides what i run into during the install(always something).
i dont plan on doing this right away.i do plan maybe getting the charger at tax time and then the other parts here and there.


i greatly apreciate your help! thanx

---------- Post added at 09:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 351mustang

So essentially depending on the weather if not tuned properly you run the risk of damaging your engine? I live in Michigan and our weather is all over the place during the summer months. So potentially if I did a TC or SC with a carb setup I would need to make sure it's tuned properly for that day?
im not the expert,but i would think that it wouldnt need tuned daily.more less with more drastic wheather changes. i guess i mean 5 degrees isnt gonna make a difference unless you are at the track and your trying to squeeze every 10 th out you can.
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Old 09-23-2011, 08:52 AM   #8
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Re: what it takes...

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Originally Posted by 351mustang View Post
So essentially depending on the weather if not tuned properly you run the risk of damaging your engine? I live in Michigan and our weather is all over the place during the summer months. So potentially if I did a TC or SC with a carb setup I would need to make sure it's tuned properly for that day?

Yes. Altitude, temperature and humidity changes will affect the tune.
Sometimes with devastating consequences.
Tune for each day? No, but you need to keep an eye on your A/F ratio and listen for detonation. It is always better to be a bit rich on the fuel mixture than lean. Lean leads to more power, but also more heat and detonation which are engine killers.

Basically if it isn't running right don't "stand on it" to "clear it out" as I have seen so many misguided wingnuts do. Check and verify your tune instead and make sure it is up to par.
Common sense will save you lots of headaches and dollars.
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Old 09-23-2011, 09:02 AM   #9
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Re: what it takes...

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Originally Posted by dreamstang View Post
so heres what im thinking for the blower i posted

ill get the book first thing.
better fuel pump 130-200 gph
colder spark plugs
bigger carb ,maybe 750 cfm
msd streetfire box .its not the best one but only 130$ should be efficient for me

do i need a better distributer also?
now the gauges you listed,should i go with the controller or is that more for efi applications?just the a/f gauge and boost gauge is what i was thinking.
when you say read the plugs you mean looking at carbon deposits,discoloration etc.etc.?
that should be about everything i need right?
sorry for so many questions.i just want to know what im getting into, price and work.
if thats all the parts i need a little over 4000$ should do it besides what i run into during the install(always something).
i dont plan on doing this right away.i do plan maybe getting the charger at tax time and then the other parts here and there.


i greatly apreciate your help! thanx

---------- Post added at 09:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 AM ----------



im not the expert,but i would think that it wouldnt need tuned daily.more less with more drastic wheather changes. i guess i mean 5 degrees isnt gonna make a difference unless you are at the track and your trying to squeeze every 10 th out you can.
Your distributor should be just fine.
An MSD distributor would be a plus though, as they are more durable and accurate.

The wide band gauge will be more accurate over a wider range than a regular A/F gauge. You won't need a controller for the carbed engine.

Yes, reading the plugs means being able to recognize different plug conditions and knowing what you need to do to make corrections if they are needed.

That should be the majority of what you will need.

Buying the stuff you need a part at a time works if that's what you have to do.
That's exactly what I have been doing for my SC install.

No problem, I'm happy to help.

No a daily tune won't be necessary. See my reply to his questions.

Take care and good luck,
TH
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Old 09-23-2011, 09:05 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

Your distributor should be just fine.
An MSD distributor would be a plus though, as they are more durable and accurate.

The wide band gauge will be more accurate over a wider range than a regular A/F gauge. You won't need a controller for the carbed engine.

Yes, reading the plugs means being able to recognize different plug conditions and knowing what you need to do to make corrections if they are needed.

That should be the majority of what you will need.

Buying the stuff you need a part at a time works if that's what you have to do.
That's exactly what I have been doing for my SC install.

No problem, I'm happy to help.

No a daily tune won't be necessary. See my reply to his questions.

Take care and good luck,
TH
cool!!! looks like i start studying and buying part(slowly)lol.
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Old 10-07-2011, 04:03 PM   #11
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I think I have my wife convinced of how important this supercharger is and how not important that much of my tax return will be.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:32 PM   #12
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I have always liked the idea behind roots type blowers, as they've been used for a long time. So have centrifugal type. I remember seeing an add by Paxton for centrifugal chargers for carbed motors. I think they actually offered a complete kit. Would be worth looking into.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:33 PM   #13
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Re: what it takes...

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I think I have my wife convinced of how important this supercharger is and how not important that much of my tax return will be.
The battle is half won if you have convinced your wife.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:34 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamstang
I think I have my wife convinced of how important this supercharger is and how not important that much of my tax return will be.
If you do end up getting one that requires a new hood, let me know I'd love to have another Saleen style hood.
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Old 10-08-2011, 04:13 AM   #15
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I will most likely need a new hood.that purchase is still some time away but I will let you know
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Old 10-10-2011, 06:02 PM   #16
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So upon my research I have stumbled up a few questions.
I am having a little trouble finding a fuel pump that is adequate enough for my future setup.my current pump is an in tank.I can switch to an external right?and do I need an adapter or anything?
Do I need to get a low psi pump because most pumps are rated for efi high pressure?
I wanted to get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator.I heard that they have them with boost ports on them.would this kind just hook up the same way as a boost gauge?I assume their will be a port to hook up a gauge on the supercharger,if so chance there will only be 1 then I could use a t or y fitting to accommodate a gauge and pressure regulator?
Thanx in advance.
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Old 10-10-2011, 06:38 PM   #17
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My 87 had a Holley 750 w/ vacuum secondaries, the guy who converted it to a carb cut the factory line at the pump and attached rubber fuel line and used the factory pump like a straw. Not sure if they did anything to the pump itself, dint think they did. Ran the line to a Holley blue fuel pump(external, mounted to the frame rail in the back. It's designed to push not pull) then all the way to under the hood to an adjustable regulator supplied with the pump. Then to a pressure gauge, to the carb. The regulator comes preset at 14 psi. You can probably tap into the stock pumps wires for power but he chose to run his own to a switch near the shifter.
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Old 10-10-2011, 06:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadsp0t
My 87 had a Holley 750 w/ vacuum secondaries, the guy who converted it to a carb cut the factory line at the pump and attached rubber fuel line and used the factory pump like a straw. Not sure if they did anything to the pump itself, dint think they did. Ran the line to a Holley blue fuel pump(external, mounted to the frame rail in the back. It's designed to push not pull) then all the way to under the hood to an adjustable regulator supplied with the pump. Then to a pressure gauge, to the carb. The regulator comes preset at 14 psi. You can probably tap into the stock pumps wires for power but he chose to run his own to a switch near the shifter.
That's exactly what I was wondering.if I could just splice into the fuel lines and pull threw the factory pump.thanx

---------- Post added at 07:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 PM ----------

My new fuel pump will flow way more than the one in there.will the intank pump restrict my external pump?
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Old 10-10-2011, 06:56 PM   #19
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That's what I don't know, if they modded the actual pump in any. I dont think they did, but I wasn't running a charger or anything either. The only thing I can see being an issue is it won't flow through the pump fast enough it could over work the pump. It's a blind shot but I don't think it'd be an issue with a carb. If you were feeding FI I'd think it'd be an issue.
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:01 PM   #20
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Well the last thing I would want is to starve a s/c . They require a lot of fuel.they make plenty of intake fuel pumps I was just hoping to expand my choices .I need atleast 130 even 150 gph pump.
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:11 PM   #21
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I guess if no one here knows for sure the next step would be to consult a speed shop for a ballpark on psi @ the carb and see where you stand, or ask how they get the fuel from the tank. I guess the question would be when you up grade in tank pumps do they have larger diameter tubing internally or just a stronger pump/motor?
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:18 PM   #22
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I plan on getting a adjustable f/p regulator.it will be somewhere like 6-14 psi.I'm just not sure that I can run a 35 psi pump on a 10 psi regulator.I'm sure someone will chime in.this project is gonna be a slow one( Damn budget).that super charger requires at least 7 psi on a 130-200 gph pump.a stock pump I'm not sure but is probably in the 50- 70 gph range.
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:34 PM   #23
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For some reason 110gph sticks out in my mind but that could be wrong.
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:55 PM   #24
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it seems that when i search for pump for my year they are rated in lph and are internal.so my thought was to search for pumps from 85 and earlier since they were carbed stock but then i only get external pumps.it is always tricky to find carbed parts for an 88 cause search results always end up with efi sruff.the biggest pumps for my year are 255lph at 45 psi but that only translates to about 56 gph or so.im sure there is one out there but my ideal find would be internal 150 gph pump.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:56 AM   #25
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Re: what it takes...

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That's exactly what I was wondering.if I could just splice into the fuel lines and pull threw the factory pump.thanx

---------- Post added at 07:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 PM ----------

My new fuel pump will flow way more than the one in there.will the intank pump restrict my external pump?
Leaving the factory pump will be a restriction.
Whether or not it is enough restriction to cause you problems may be debatable.
I would remove the pump and replace it with a pickup tube if you go with an external pump.
Don't forget the sock for the end of the tube if you do this. You don't want to ruin a new pump or clog your system with debris from the tank.
I can't remember exactly where I saw them, but there are pickup/sending unit replacements available for that purpose.

You need to contact the SC manufacturer and find out for sure what the recommended fuel flow should be so you don't starve the engine for fuel.
That would lead to a lean condition which could destroy your engine.

Anderson Ford Motorsports offers a 340 LPH, in tank fuel pump ($140), but it is high pressure for the EFI engines. I don't know if you could regulate it down for carb use or not. Might give them a call and ask about it.
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Old 10-11-2011, 07:44 AM   #26
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I have downloaded the manual and contacted summit tech.I am looking to get a 150 gph pump.

---------- Post added at 08:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 AM ----------

A 355 lph is equivalent to less than 100gph. I can find external pumps all day w/ low psi and high gph.that is gonna be my best route I believe.if you remember where you saw this kit let me know.I know it can be done without but I would like to do it nice.thanx
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:46 AM   #27
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Re: what it takes...

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I have downloaded the manual and contacted summit tech.I am looking to get a 150 gph pump.

---------- Post added at 08:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 AM ----------

A 355 lph is equivalent to less than 100gph. I can find external pumps all day w/ low psi and high gph.that is gonna be my best route I believe.if you remember where you saw this kit let me know.I know it can be done without but I would like to do it nice.thanx
Here is one, about a third of the way down the page.

Fuel Pick Up Tube
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:48 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

Here is one, about a third of the way down the page.

Fuel Pick Up Tube
Sweet perfect.thanx
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:22 AM   #29
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Re: what it takes...

P.S. I think 150 GPH is probably a good bit more than you will actually need.
See the figures below.

155 lph = 41 gph = 246 lbs of fuel = 491 hp
190 lph = 50 gph = 301 lbs of fuel = 600 hp
255 lph = 67 gph = 404 lbs of fuel = 800 hp
340 lph = 89 gph = 534 lbs of fuel = 1068 hp
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:11 AM   #30
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Does the same figures apply to carb as efi?
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:07 AM   #31
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Ok so I called tech again and if use a high psi pump I just need return lines.he told me not to use a regulator w/ boost port.he also recommend an aeromotive fuel pump 140gph .he said It is a little big but will work great with regulator.they also sell the pick up tubes you were talking about.I can also go a little smaller on the pump and won't need a regulator.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:40 PM   #32
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I would use a regulator as it will allow for more mods, and better tuning.

Trojan, if you are not working in a field that uses you expansive Mustang knowledge/passion your in the wrong field bro! 
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:22 PM   #33
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Re: what it takes...

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Does the same figures apply to carb as efi?
Yes, that's why I showed LPH and GPH.
On a carbed car you also have to worry about getting the GPH you need past the needle and seat into the fuel bowl and through the jets into the engine.

It is definitely preferrable to go a little large on fuel supply.
Too much will drown out an engine and make it black smoke which is easy to cure. An engine can withstand this for a while. It is not good for it, but it is not an engine killer right away.

Too little will kill your engine in short order, especially at WOT.
If you ever hear a racer talk about "torching" or "burning" a piston, it usually means their fuel supply/mixture went lean.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:28 PM   #34
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Re: what it takes...

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I would use a regulator as it will allow for more mods, and better tuning.

Trojan, if you are not working in a field that uses you expansive Mustang knowledge/passion your in the wrong field bro!

I agree with the regulator use.

Not working anywhere at the moment. Recovering from 3 crushed disks in my neck. Major surgery, major pain and a PITA.
The nice people I worked for, for 26 years terminated me after I got hurt on the job claiming "workforce reduction".
P.S. They only dream and wish I was that stupid.
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:07 PM   #35
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Them dirty bastards.at least you have more time to help me .hope you recover good and get back to work so you can get your super charger install completed.I appreciate the help as always.I have been doing lots of studying and I'm sure there will be many posts on this thread.my main goal right now is to get a good game plan and to start making a parts list.as soon as I get my list together which is about there I can start 100$ing my self broke .lol

---------- Post added at 03:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 PM ----------

Ps : with your wealth of knowledge and experience I'm sure once your healthy again you shouldn't have a problem finding a job
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Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

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RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

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Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

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