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Old 12-14-2011, 01:48 PM   #1
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Another oil question lol

Ok so we need to do an oil change on my car and we were wondering type of oil we should use since the motor is built, or if we even need to change types. Also we don't know what to put in it anyway the guy told us what he'd been running but my dad forgot.... So in case it matters it has a 302 bored to a 306, lunati cam, canfield heads, longtube headers, bigger injectors(not sure what size), deleted a/c, and a cold air intake
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Old 12-14-2011, 08:56 PM   #2
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Re: Another oil question lol

oil is all to whoever likes what every body likes different types castrol mobile royal purple i have always used vavoline syn and it has cleaned up 2 5.0 and one 3.8 mustangs in two oil changes but everyone tells me they dont like that oil but i swear by it i used it on my 90 gt and it quit smoking within 2 weeks just my thought
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Old 12-14-2011, 09:04 PM   #3
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Re: Another oil question lol

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Originally Posted by MC770 View Post
Ok so we need to do an oil change on my car and we were wondering type of oil we should use since the motor is built, or if we even need to change types. Also we don't know what to put in it anyway the guy told us what he'd been running but my dad forgot.... So in case it matters it has a 302 bored to a 306, lunati cam, canfield heads, longtube headers, bigger injectors(not sure what size), deleted a/c, and a cold air intake
Seriously, any good, brand name petroleum based oil will serve in most cases.
To get additional protection and a bit more power a good synthetic is usually recommended.

Personally, I use the Mobil 1 synthetic 5W/30 in my Mustang and the Ford Motorcraft 5W/20 semi-synthetic in my Ford Ranger.

Everyone has their own personal favorites and there have been oil test comparisons out the wazoo, but I have found most of the tests are biased toward the presenter's own personal preference.
So I would choose a lubricant according to the local availability and my own preference.
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Old 12-15-2011, 03:28 PM   #4
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Re: Another oil question lol

I'm more interested in the number side of it the brand don't matter so we could put like 10w/30 in and be fine then?
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Old 12-15-2011, 05:28 PM   #5
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Re: Another oil question lol

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I'm more interested in the number side of it the brand don't matter so we could put like 10w/30 in and be fine then?
Yes, that will be fine.
As long as your engine can handle it, the thinner the oil, the less drag there is on the rotating parts, which equals out to more HP freed up.
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Old 12-15-2011, 08:57 PM   #6
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Re: Another oil question lol

Ok well we weren't sure if it would be able to use that so I figured I'd ask. Guess it'll work
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Old 02-01-2012, 01:09 PM   #7
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Re: Another oil question lol

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Originally Posted by MC770 View Post
Ok so we need to do an oil change on my car and we were wondering type of oil we should use since the motor is built, or if we even need to change types. Also we don't know what to put in it anyway the guy told us what he'd been running but my dad forgot.... So in case it matters it has a 302 bored to a 306, lunati cam, canfield heads, longtube headers, bigger injectors(not sure what size), deleted a/c, and a cold air intake
Well since it's a Push Rod Motor I would pick a 100% Synthetic with ZDDP in it, I assume you don't have CATS so the Added ZDDP will not damage them.

Zinc dithiophosphate (ZDDP) is in anti-wear, corrosion inhibitors and antioxidant additive added to motor oils. Crankcase oils with reduced ZDDP have been cited as causing damage to, or failure of, classic/collector car flat tappet camshafts and lifters which undergo very high boundary layer pressures and/or shear forces at their contact faces, and in other regions such as big-end/main bearings, and piston rings and pins.
There are additives, such as STP Oil Treatment, and some racing oils such as Valvoline VR-1, Royal Purple and Amsoil, are available in the retail market with the necessary amount of ZDDP for engines using increased valve spring pressures.


Try to stay with 100% Synthetics not the Fully Synthetic like Mobil 1, it uses Group III hydrocracked mineral oil, these oils are fine for your average Daily driver car but modified engines need to use better oil.

Here is a List of 100% Synthetic Oils.
These Contain ZDDP
Amsoil Maximum Performance SAE 5W-30
Performance Plus XL 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil
Performance Synthetic 5W30 OE Motor Oil

Royal Purple XPR 5W-30
Royal Purple Street SAE-SN 5W-30
Royal Purple HPS 5W-30
Redline 5W-30 High Performance Oil

If you don't do a lot of racing and drive that car like a daily driver then
you can use the fully synthetics.

List of Fully Synthetic Oils (From best to worst)
1 - Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30
Pennzoil Platinum performs well, is easy to find at retail locations, and costs much less than boutique synthetic oils such as Redline or Amsoil. You can pick up a 5 liter jug for around $20 from Walmart, making it an excellent value. Used oil analysis of Pennzoil Platinum consistently shows very good results, even with long oil change intervals. Factoring in a combination of performance, availability and value, this is the best overall synthetic oil for most drivers.

2 - Castol Edge (Syntec or Titanium)
Castrol's synthetic oils are recommended by many manufacturers and mechanics. Formerly known as Castrol Syntec, the new Castrol Edge with SPT (Syntec Power Technology) is one of the best synthetic engine oils for the money. This oil features long drain intervals and excellent protection against metal-on-metal wear, making it a great choice for drivers who rack up miles quickly.

3 - Mobil 1 Full Synth 5W-30
Mobil 1 is the factory fill of many top-performing cars including the Nissan GT-R, all Porsche vehicles, and Mercedes-Benz AMG vehicles. you can't go wrong with Mobil 1, But Castrol Edge and Pennzoil Platinum performs as well -- if not better -- and is a little cheaper.

4 - VALVOLINE Full Synthetic, 5W-30
And many more on the market


Background Information

Group II - Hydro processing and Refining: Group II base oils are common in mineral based motor oils currently available on the market.
They are refered to as Mineral

Group – III Hydro processing and Refining: Group III base oils are subjected to the highest level of mineral oil refining of the base oil groups, but they are not chemically engineered. They are commonly mixed with additives and marketed as synthetic or semi-synthetic or full synthetic products, which means Joe public can add synthetic to his mineral, or mineral to his synthetic without his car engine seizing up (although Mobil 1 is actually made by reformulating ethanol). Group III Oils include (Mobil 1 Fully Synth, Pennzoil Gold, Castrol GTX ect)

Group IV -Chemical Reactions: Group IV base oils are chemically engineered synthetic base stocks. Polyalphaolefins (PAO's) synthetics, when combined with additives, offer excellent performance over a wide range of lubricating properties. They have very stable chemical compositions and highly uniform molecular chains. Group IV base oils are becoming more common in synthetic and synthetic-blend products for automotive and industrial applications. (AMSOIL Synthetic, RedLine, Motil, Royal Purple, Oils are Group IV Polyalphaolefins).

Group V - As Indicated: Group V base oils are used primarily in the creation of oil additives. Esters and polyolesters are both common Group V base oils used in the formulation of oil additives. Group V oils are generally not used as base oils themselves, but add beneficial properties to other base oils.
(Most High Performance Racing Oils contain Group V base, most of the manufactures in the Group IV list contain group IV as well)
Note that the additives referred to in the Group V description are not aftermarket type oil additives. The additives referred to are used in the chemical engineering and blending of motor oils and other lubricating oils by the specific oil company that produces the finished product.

What ever Oil you choose please remember one thing, always use a good Oil Filter; this is the first line of defense in engine protection so do not go cheap on the Filter.

Quality Filters.
Motorcraft (FL1A)
Mobil 1 (M1-301)
Royal Purple (30-8A)
K&N (HP-3001 or PS-3001)
WIX (51515) Micron Rating: 19
AMSoil (FL1A)

check out this Oil Filter study
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Old 02-01-2012, 01:28 PM   #8
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Re: Another oil question lol

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Originally Posted by 2K05GT View Post
Well since it's a Push Rod Motor I would pick a 100% Synthetic with ZDDP in it, I assume you don't have CATS so the Added ZDDP will not damage them.

Zinc dithiophosphate (ZDDP) is in anti-wear, corrosion inhibitors and antioxidant additive added to motor oils. Crankcase oils with reduced ZDDP have been cited as causing damage to, or failure of, classic/collector car flat tappet camshafts and lifters which undergo very high boundary layer pressures and/or shear forces at their contact faces, and in other regions such as big-end/main bearings, and piston rings and pins.
There are additives, such as STP Oil Treatment, and some racing oils such as Valvoline VR-1, Royal Purple and Amsoil, are available in the retail market with the necessary amount of ZDDP for engines using increased valve spring pressures.


Try to stay with 100% Synthetics not the Fully Synthetic like Mobil 1, it uses Group III hydrocracked mineral oil, these oils are fine for your average Daily driver car but modified engines need to use better oil.

Here is a List of 100% Synthetic Oils.
These Contain ZDDP
Amsoil Maximum Performance SAE 5W-30
Performance Plus XL 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil
Performance Synthetic 5W30 OE Motor Oil

Royal Purple XPR 5W-30
Royal Purple Street SAE-SN 5W-30
Royal Purple HPS 5W-30
Redline 5W-30 High Performance Oil

If you don't do a lot of racing and drive that car like a daily driver then
you can use the fully synthetics. one thing to remember with any oil, always use a good Oil Filter; this is the first line of defense in engine protection so do not go cheap on the Filter

List of Fully Synthetic Oils (From best to worst)
1 - Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30
Pennzoil Platinum performs well, is easy to find at retail locations, and costs much less than boutique synthetic oils such as Redline or Amsoil. You can pick up a 5 liter jug for around $20 from Walmart, making it an excellent value. Used oil analysis of Pennzoil Platinum consistently shows very good results, even with long oil change intervals. Factoring in a combination of performance, availability and value, this is the best overall synthetic oil for most drivers.

2 - Castol Edge (Syntec or Titanium)
Castrol's synthetic oils are recommended by many manufacturers and mechanics. Formerly known as Castrol Syntec, the new Castrol Edge with SPT (Syntec Power Technology) is one of the best synthetic engine oils for the money. This oil features long drain intervals and excellent protection against metal-on-metal wear, making it a great choice for drivers who rack up miles quickly.

3 - Mobil 1 Full Synth 5W-30
Mobil 1 is the factory fill of many top-performing cars including the Nissan GT-R, all Porsche vehicles, and Mercedes-Benz AMG vehicles. you can't go wrong with Mobil 1, But Castrol Edge and Pennzoil Platinum performs as well -- if not better -- and is a little cheaper.

4 - VALVOLINE Full Synthetic, 5W-30
And many more on the market
I find it interesting that your list of best to worst, shows Mobil 1 near the bottom and Pennzoil at the top.
My research a few years ago showed those positions to be reversed.


Just curious, How did you make the order determination?


P.S. Since he is running a roller cam, the ZDDP is not really necessary.
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Old 02-01-2012, 02:01 PM   #9
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Re: Another oil question lol

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I find it interesting that your list of best to worst, shows Mobil 1 near the bottom and Pennzoil at the top.
My research a few years ago showed those positions to be reversed.


Just curious, How did you make the order determination?


P.S. Since he is running a roller cam, the ZDDP is not really necessary.
GOOD Observation..
Mobil 1 quality suffered after hurricane katrina knocked out several rigs and refineries so they had to resort to reformulating ethanol, this made the process cheaper to make M1 oil and the process stuck with them since late 2009-2010, but the quality of the product went downhill as a result.
This was well documented on Bob Is The Oil Guy with UOA's before and after...

Castrol Edge would have been #1 but Pennzoil Platnium was the least exspensive, so I put it on top spot since the performace and quality was on par or better with M1, it cost less than M1 or CE, but Castrol Edgeis the best out of the three.

BTW, Pennzoil Ultra is better than platnium I just forgot to put it in the list since I have used Ultra more recently than Platnium,

I really perfer Castrol Edge in non modified cars / daily drivers.
My wife has a 2009 Dodge Durango Hybrid Dual Mode Hemi. The Durango does not use a starter to start the engine; because when you turn the key the electric circuits start only. when the hybrid motor needs power for charging or acceleration then the gas engine starts. When we ran M1 we could feel the engine start, the vehicle would shake a bit but when I switched to Castrol Edge we can't feel the engine start now, it's seamless from electric to gas.

My mom has a 2000 Saturn SL2, a few years ago while driving back from PA she spun a bearing; I got the car back home and replaced the pistons, rods and crank, filled it with M1 and I drove it around for a while to make sure it was ok, I noticed that the engine was very noisy lots of light knocking or tapping noise, I continued to drive it for months, draining the oil every 2000 mi for 8 months. well when I repaced the oil in the durango with CE I also did the Saturn. well the engine is as quiet as a new one now. again not scientific just my experience.

True on the ZDDP, but there are other advantages to running ZDDP even in Mod Motors as I document here at BITOG
the ZDDP acts as a sacrafical metal to reduce wear and clean the engine.
I think that Flat Tappet valve trains actually require more ZDDP that is currently offered in some racing oil additives.

I have been using Royal Purple since the day I bought my 2005 GT, today the car has 96K miles with many mods, I Drag Race almost every weekend and the car still runs low 12's, with a new tune next week to make use of the Comp 217300 Cams, I hope to be knocking on 11.9's door...
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Old 02-01-2012, 02:49 PM   #10
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Re: Another oil question lol

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GOOD Observation..
Mobil 1 quality suffered after hurricane katrina knocked out several rigs and refineries so they had to resort to reformulating ethanol, this made the process cheaper to make M1 oil and the process stuck with them since late 2009-2010, but the quality of the product went downhill as a result.
This was well documented on Bob Is The Oil Guy with UOA's before and after...

Castrol Edge would have been #1 but Pennzoil Platnium was the least exspensive, so I put it on top spot since the performace and quality was on par or better with M1, it cost less than M1 or CE, but Castrol Edgeis the best out of the three.

BTW, Pennzoil Ultra is better than platnium I just forgot to put it in the list since I have used Ultra more recently than Platnium,

I really perfer Castrol Edge in non modified cars / daily drivers.
My wife has a 2009 Dodge Durango Hybrid Dual Mode Hemi. The Durango does not use a starter to start the engine; because when you turn the key the electric circuits start only. when the hybrid motor needs power for charging or acceleration then the gas engine starts. When we ran M1 we could feel the engine start, the vehicle would shake a bit but when I switched to Castrol Edge we can't feel the engine start now, it's seamless from electric to gas.

My mom has a 2000 Saturn SL2, a few years ago while driving back from PA she spun a bearing; I got the car back home and replaced the pistons, rods and crank, filled it with M1 and I drove it around for a while to make sure it was ok, I noticed that the engine was very noisy lots of light knocking or tapping noise, I continued to drive it for months, draining the oil every 2000 mi for 8 months. well when I repaced the oil in the durango with CE I also did the Saturn. well the engine is as quiet as a new one now. again not scientific just my experience.

True on the ZDDP, but there are other advantages to running ZDDP even in Mod Motors as I document here at BITOG
the ZDDP actes as a sacrafical metal to reduce wear and clean the engine.

I have been using Royal Purple since the day I bought my 2005 GT, today the car has 96K miles with many mods, I Drag Race almost every weekend and the car still runs low 12's, with a new tune next week to make use of the Comp 217300 Cams, I hope to be knocking on 11.9's door...
I would have thought that the amount of time I have spent on the internet that I would have ran across the info on the Mobil 1 sooner. I guess I just wasn't paying attention.
Thank you for the information and heads up, I appreciate it.


I have also used Castrol engine oils and one thing I have noticed when tearing down an engine that has ran it for a while is the golden coating on the internals. That proved to me that it was actually "getting into" the metal to help protect the engine.


I used info from Bob the Oil Guy's site during my previous research, but I had forgotten about the site, thanks for reminding me and providing a link.


Have you ever checked out Joe Gibbs Driven Oils?
I have seen several engine builders who specify the use of his oils for their engines.


I can see where the ZDDP would have other advantages since it is an EP (Extreme Pressure) additive. I just wasn't sure how well it might be tolerated in or affect newer engines.


I went to the Time Slip site through your link.
It appears that you are progressing nicely. Good job!
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Old 02-01-2012, 04:26 PM   #11
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Re: Another oil question lol

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IHave you ever checked out Joe Gibbs Driven Oils?
I have seen several engine builders who specify the use of his oils for their engines.


I can see where the ZDDP would have other advantages since it is an EP (Extreme Pressure) additive. I just wasn't sure how well it might be tolerated in or affect newer engines.


I went to the Time Slip site through your link.
It appears that you are progressing nicely. Good job!
Yes, I forgot about the XP oils from Gibbs Racing, Helped a buddy rebuild a off road Monster Jeep with a supercharged engine, he used their break-in and XP6 oils, Great stuff.. Thanks

On the ZDDP, Yes again with the tight tolerances with the Mod Motors I was wondering about the ZDDP creating a tighter spec, but as it turns out, it actually prevented dirt from getting into the bearings and journals and scaring them. if you look at the pictures of the cams with Royal Purple there is very little marks or scaring on them, yet with the Cams using Mobil 1 with half the miles they are marked up all over. the ZDDP did a great job protecting the contact surfaces that are under extreme pressure.

Todays Oils have alot less Z additives because of catalytic converters. I run high flow cats but have never had an issue since 2005 when I started using RP.
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Old 02-01-2012, 04:36 PM   #12
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Re: Another oil question lol

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Yes, I forgot about the XP oils from Gibbs Racing, Helped a buddy rebuild a off road Monster Jeep with a supercharged engine, he used their break-in and XP6 oils, Great stuff.. Thanks

On the ZDDP, Yes again with the tight tolerances with the Mod Motors I was wondering about the ZDDP creating a tighter spec, but as it turns out, it actually prevented dirt from getting into the bearings and journals and scaring them. if you look at the pictures of the cams with Royal Purple there is very little marks or scaring on them, yet with the Cams using Mobil 1 with half the miles they are marked up all over. the ZDDP did a great job protecting the contact surfaces that are under extreme pressure.

Todays Oils have alot less Z additives because of catalytic converters. I run high flow cats but have never had an issue since 2005 when I started using RP.
I saw the cam pics. That's an impressive difference.
Too bad about Mobil 1, but I will probably be using the Joe Gibbs or RP in mine from now on.
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Old 02-01-2012, 05:54 PM   #13
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Re: Another oil question lol

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I would have thought that the amount of time I have spent on the internet that I would have ran across the info on the Mobil 1 sooner. I guess I just wasn't paying attention.
Thank you for the information and heads up, I appreciate it.
hurricane katrina caused a great deal of damage to the Gas and oil industry in 2005, with government restrictions on Drilling and Building refineries many Oil companies had to re-tool or redesign most of it's processes. Exxon/Mobil, Chevron and BP were hit the hardest.

Also another study of Mobil 1 EP. When it was orginally released, was a pure 100% Grp IV PAO oil. Awesome basestock with a beefed up Mobil 1 additive pack. It's intention was to compete with Amsoil for the "15000" drain intervals. In it's orginal form it was a SL form and did NOT meed API standards for the "starburst" gasoline engine category. Original UOA reports were stellar, significantly lower wear numbers and insoluable control over regular Mobil 1. Somewhere along the lines not long after Hurricane Katrina, Mobil 1 EP magically was reformulated to meet API SM cagegory and earn the starburst API certification. Speculation became that Mobil 1 began combining Grp III (hydrocracked dino base oil) with the Grp IV PAO. While that can't be confirmed or denied, the UOAs and VOAs did show some changes. Most UOAs now show no marked improvement over the regular formulation of Mobil 1 up to 10000 mile OCIs. Not many people push past that to find the difference. All the UOAs show the typical high iron wear that most Mobil oils exhibit. The VOA (virgin oil analysis) does indicate a different additive pack when compared the regular Mobil 1, but it doesn't appear to change much when put to the test.

The UOAs and VOAs also showed some changes with the regular Mobil 1 oil. Again the UOAs show the typical high iron wear but also higher silicon levels. The VOA also indicates a different additive pack when compared to earlier samples. Clearly the quality of the regular product as well as the EP line has changed.

In 2009 the U.S. Government denied ExxonMobil the plans to build a new refinery after several were damaged or destoyed in Hurricane Katrina. ExxonMobil decided to rebuild one that was damaged, to continue the Mobil 1 oil line production. This required then to convert the plan to use ethanol in place of natural gas for the distillation of crude. The controls and temperatures were not consistant and another problem was the increased amout of water produced from the use of ethanol all contributed to the lower quality.

The central process in refining involves distillation, or heating crude oil to a variety of different temperatures, utilizing the different boiling points of its various components to separate them. These components are then further refined (e.g., "cracked" into shorter chains of hydrocarbons) and/or mixed with additives to create end products. In addition to distillation, lower quality crude oil undergoes a more complex refining process because there are more impurities to remove.

Mobil did a Q&A with bobistheoilguy forums.
Mobil 1 Q&A - Bob is the Oil Guy
Guess what. They didn't answer the questions about whether their oil is synthetic or not.


When I look and Mobil 1, I see ANOTHER reformulated blended synthetic oil with an extra price tag. Mobil may keep secrets about their formulation, but the one thing we can do is examine their product in both virgin (VOA) and used form (UOA). And what I see, along with many other people, is an oil that doesn't really meet it's claims or price tag.

Just my .2 cents worth
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Old 02-01-2012, 06:53 PM   #14
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Re: Another oil question lol

Thanks for the additional info and link.
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Old 02-01-2012, 07:41 PM   #15
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Re: Another oil question lol

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Thanks for the additional info and link.
Great info Thank-you!

Just out of curiosity, did you notice an increase in gas mileage on your wife's Durango when you changed the brand of oil?
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Old 02-01-2012, 09:14 PM   #16
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Re: Another oil question lol

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Great info Thank-you!

Just out of curiosity, did you notice an increase in gas mileage on your wife's Durango when you changed the brand of oil?
because of how the Hybrid system works it would not noticable if there was.
the best we get from it is 23/23 when you drive in the city, the electric drive does most of the work under 25 mph, then the gas engine starts up. on the highway the V8 goes into fuel saver mode; it drops 4 cylinders by turning off the injectors and spark, this allows the remaining 4 along with the electric drive to move the truck. too many things in play to look at fuel savings since the trucks system is tuned to do just that, save fuel. so short answer is .. no

I was asked this same question when I posted my results on using Royal Purple in my 2005 Mustang GT. this is one of the claims from Royal Purple that using it, you will notice better fuel economy, My answer was the same.
because my car is dyno tuned to maximize performance. No.

in both cases the only thing I noticed with Royal Purple and Castrol Edge, the engines ran smoother and less noise. I remember the first few months I had the Mustang, I took it to the dealer several times about a "lifter Tick" sound from the engine. they first said it was the break-in oil, so at 3000 miles they changed it to Motorcraft brand somthing, tick still there, several more visits and they finally said it was normal. I tried Mobil 1 with no results, then one day I was at Autozone and I picked up RP 5w-20, with RP filter and did an oil change. to my suprize the tick was gone. So happy now

To tell you the truth, I think claims of 2% increase on fuel economy is snake oil,
I mean your tire pressure could make that much difference. too many factors drive MPG, air temps, fuel quality, driver mood ect..

also here in the US we have 10% Ethanol added to our gas, this causes a reduction in MPG, plus added water to our tanks don't help!!
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