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Old 12-31-2011, 01:50 AM   #1
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Limits

Hat are the limits of the stock 5.0 motor. It's from a 88 gt with zero done to it. My buddy bought one and I'm lookin stuff up and really have no clue about the 5.0
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Old 12-31-2011, 02:20 AM   #2
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Re: Limits

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Originally Posted by t0t4lbl4ck0ut View Post
Hat are the limits of the stock 5.0 motor. It's from a 88 gt with zero done to it. My buddy bought one and I'm lookin stuff up and really have no clue about the 5.0

About 500 HP, up to maybe 650 HP if you install main stud and valley girdles. See the DSS Main Support System and the Valley Girdle Pro.
6-8 PSI of boost if using forced induction is usually safe if you keep it properly tuned.
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Old 12-31-2011, 08:58 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

About 500 HP, up to maybe 650 HP if you install main stud and valley girdles. See the DSS Main Support System and the Valley Girdle Pro.
6-8 PSI of boost if using forced induction is usually safe if you keep it properly tuned.
Curious as to why almost everywhere I check people say 6-8 psi of boost is safe with a proper tune? I have a stock block pushing 15.1 psi @ 6200 rpm with a tune and my car runs like a champ. I've been to the track, I've missed gears (thank you msd 6al) hopefully I don't jinx it!!! Lol

---------- Post added at 09:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meansaleen

Curious as to why almost everywhere I check people say 6-8 psi of boost is safe with a proper tune? I have a stock block pushing 15.1 psi @ 6200 rpm with a tune and my car runs like a champ. I've been to the track, I've missed gears (thank you msd 6al) hopefully I don't jinx it!!! Lol
I've also heard its not so much the psi as it is the horsepower u make that can crack your block. I'm pushing 470 rwhp at that boost
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Old 12-31-2011, 09:24 AM   #4
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Re: Limits

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Originally Posted by Meansaleen View Post
Curious as to why almost everywhere I check people say 6-8 psi of boost is safe with a proper tune? I have a stock block pushing 15.1 psi @ 6200 rpm with a tune and my car runs like a champ. I've been to the track, I've missed gears (thank you msd 6al) hopefully I don't jinx it!!! Lol

---------- Post added at 09:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 AM ----------



I've also heard its not so much the psi as it is the horsepower u make that can crack your block. I'm pushing 470 rwhp at that boost

Because usually 6-8 psi puts them close to the 500 HP level.
The blocks can crack from elevated cylinder pressures, detonation, distortion/flexing of the thinwall block and improper tuning.

Not to be offensive, but, why are you making only 470 with 15 psi?
Seems like it should make much more than that.
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Old 12-31-2011, 09:52 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

Because usually 6-8 psi puts them close to the 500 HP level.
The blocks can crack from elevated cylinder pressures, detonation, distortion/flexing of the thinwall block and improper tuning.

Not to be offensive, but, why are you making only 470 with 15 psi?
Seems like it should make much more than that.
Doesn't 6-8 psi get you 70-100 rwhp? That's what they advertise no? I got over 200 rwhp with 15 psi. I mean the person that did my car was an engineer for steeda and has his own shop. Im satisfied the way it runs and a lot of other people also i mean im no professional. check his website let me know what u think Realspeedautomotive.com
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Old 12-31-2011, 10:58 AM   #6
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Re: Limits

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Doesn't 6-8 psi get you 70-100 rwhp? That's what they advertise no? I got over 200 rwhp with 15 psi. I mean the person that did my car was an engineer for steeda and has his own shop. Im satisfied the way it runs and a lot of other people also i mean im no professional. check his website let me know what u think Realspeedautomotive.com
Not necessarily. What you get at any given boost pressure depends upon the modifications you have and the power you make before it's boosted.
That may be the figures for a stock 5.0, I don't know for sure.

I'm sure he knows what he's doing or your engine wouldn't have survived very long.

Is your engine all stock?
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Old 12-31-2011, 11:07 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

Not necessarily. What you get at any given boost pressure depends upon the modifications you have and the power you make before it's boosted.
That may be the figures for a stock 5.0, I don't know for sure.

I'm sure he knows what he's doing or your engine wouldn't have survived very long.

Is your engine all stock?
Block and rotating assembly is stock. I have gt40x aluminum ported polished heads, vortech upper lower intake ported polished, 1.6 roller rockers,e303 cam, Mac equal length shorties, accufab throttle body, msd ignition system, 60lb injectors, Anderson power pipe, vortech v1 s trim, and many more to list
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Old 12-31-2011, 11:46 AM   #8
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Re: Limits

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Block and rotating assembly is stock. I have gt40x aluminum ported polished heads, vortech upper lower intake ported polished, 1.6 roller rockers,e303 cam, Mac equal length shorties, accufab throttle body, msd ignition system, 60lb injectors, Anderson power pipe, vortech v1 s trim, and many more to list

Seems like it shouldn't take that much boost to make that power with those mods.
I have similar mods, but no SC installed yet and my engine was dynoed at 405 hp naturally aspirated.

Maybe he did a conservative tune to protect the engine?
Oh well, it doesn't matter. It is what it is.

What Vortech intake are you using?
I didn't know they made lowers.
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Old 12-31-2011, 01:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

Seems like it shouldn't take that much boost to make that power with those mods.
I have similar mods, but no SC installed yet and my engine was dynoed at 405 hp naturally aspirated.

Maybe he did a conservative tune to protect the engine?
Oh well, it doesn't matter. It is what it is.

What Vortech intake are you using?
I didn't know they made lowers.
I don't know how you got that number but before my supercharger with all those mods I put down 280 rwhp. And yes it is a conservative tune I told him I wanted to be able to drive the car long distances with a/c and all. The vortech intake I bought in the 90's it was made by vortech with saleen name on it
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Old 12-31-2011, 03:28 PM   #10
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Every motor is different. We got a 89 with a 93 short block ( non forged pistons) is been laying down 440 at the wheels at 10psi on a auto car for over a year with no motor problems. That's with a 76mm mp turbo
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Old 12-31-2011, 04:18 PM   #11
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Re: Limits

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Originally Posted by Meansaleen View Post
I don't know how you got that number but before my supercharger with all those mods I put down 280 rwhp. And yes it is a conservative tune I told him I wanted to be able to drive the car long distances with a/c and all. The vortech intake I bought in the 90's it was made by vortech with saleen name on it
I got that number from Keith Craft Racing Engines. They built the engine and the bottom end is not stock. The 405 hp is at the crank. Figuring a 15% drivetrain loss through a manual transmission, aluminum driveshaft and synthetic fluids leaves me with around 344 rwhp.

I've never seen one of those intakes before. It looks a bit like the Holley Systemax intake.
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Old 12-31-2011, 06:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

I got that number from Keith Craft Racing Engines. They built the engine and the bottom end is not stock. The 405 hp is at the crank. Figuring a 15% drivetrain loss through a manual transmission, aluminum driveshaft and synthetic fluids leaves me with around 344 rwhp.

I've never seen one of those intakes before. It looks a bit like the Holley Systemax intake.
I'm sorry lol but that's another thing I'm curious about. So if we have two engines one making 400 hp And one making 600 hp Both engines have the same drivetrain, fluids, etc. @ 15% drivetrain loss the 600 hp Motor will lose more hp? I don't think so
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Old 12-31-2011, 07:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meansaleen

I'm sorry lol but that's another thing I'm curious about. So if we have two engines one making 400 hp And one making 600 hp Both engines have the same drivetrain, fluids, etc. @ 15% drivetrain loss the 600 hp Motor will lose more hp? I don't think so
15% or so is just a rough theoretical guess

---------- Post added at 07:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 PM ----------

Their is a million different factors that come into effect on a dyno, I could take my car with 3.55 gears and a five speed on factory pony and put down 300 at the wheels with a 5th gear pull. I could go home and drop in some 4.30s and a 30x12 slicks and tow it up there and dyno it in 4th gear and put down 286. Not straight to the dot
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Old 12-31-2011, 07:33 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Stang.racr

15% or so is just a rough theoretical guess

---------- Post added at 07:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 PM ----------

Their is a million different factors that come into effect on a dyno, I could take my car with 3.55 gears and a five speed on factory pony and put down 300 at the wheels with a 5th gear pull. I could go home and drop in some 4.30s and a 30x12 slicks and tow it up there and dyno it in 4th gear and put down 286. Not straight to the dot
I understand that. I'm saying both have same exact drivetrain wheels everything only one has more hp in the motor. If you use % obviously the higher number will have more loss I can't see that being a good formula to go by. I mean if u wanna get somewhat of an idea I can see doing that. I also wanna thank everyone for a nice debate it's good to be able to have differences in opinions without no one flaming.
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Old 12-31-2011, 07:37 PM   #15
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Re: Limits

whats the limit on the stock t5???
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Old 12-31-2011, 08:05 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by wc3john
whats the limit on the stock t5???
Not quite sure I've heard around 3-350 rwhp. But then again I have 470rwhp with the stock t-5 and she's still holding. not sure for how long. 3rd gear seems to be a weak link on the t-5. When she goes imma go for a tremec tko
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Old 01-01-2012, 03:53 AM   #17
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Re: Limits

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I'm sorry lol but that's another thing I'm curious about. So if we have two engines one making 400 hp And one making 600 hp Both engines have the same drivetrain, fluids, etc. @ 15% drivetrain loss the 600 hp Motor will lose more hp? I don't think so
No, I'm sorry.
I assumed from the way you were talking, that you knew about the 15% & 20% loss guesstimates used by many tuners and across many forums and performance sites on the net.
I apologize and I will attempt to explain better.

What I have learned from much research is:

There is really no repeatable, "accurate" way to figure the actual HP differences between RWHP and Crankshaft HP.
If you have a tuner who is really, really experienced with your make, model of car, engine and transmission type, they can usually get pretty close.
Some experienced tuners have recorded fairly accurate losses as high as 35% on heavy automatic equipped cars as an example.

The only way to really get close would be to be able to dyno the engine itself first, then install it in the car and dyno it again on a chassis dyno.
Even then you would need the same exact temperature, humidity and engine tune for it to even be close and other variables would still throw it off most likely.
Couple that with the costs associated for the multiple dyno runs necessary and it just isn't worthwhile for most people to really worry about.

So, instead most people use the 15% figure for a manual transmission and the 20% for an automatic transmission to present a calculated, "rough" estimate and like you pointed out, sometimes it may be "way" off.
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Old 01-01-2012, 04:00 AM   #18
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Re: Limits

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whats the limit on the stock t5???
I believe they (the V8 models) are good for around 250-300 ft. lbs. of torque. Horsepower figures are not given for the T5 or most other transmissions as it is the torque that will kill them.
I have the exact figures somewhere, but that is in the range of most of them.
The V6 and I4 models are considerably weaker and should not be used behind a V8.
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Old 01-01-2012, 04:15 AM   #19
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Re: Limits

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I also wanna thank everyone for a nice debate it's good to be able to have differences in opinions without no one flaming.
We do that here all the time.
I'll be the first to admit that I don't know everything (!!! Yeah I know, hard to believe isnt it? But sadly it is true.) , I make mistakes and sometimes misremember or misspeak information, but never on purpose and I always freely admit when I am or have been proven wrong. I'm here to learn as much as I am to help and I appreciate the many friends I have made here that help me learn to much to argue with them or mislead them with false information.

P.S. Also note that the site admin doesn't allow flaming/arguing and will ban anyone who insists on doing so.

EDIT: Yeah guys I know, 3 posts in a row, but I figured it was best to separate them this way.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:36 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

No, I'm sorry.
I assumed from the way you were talking, that you knew about the 15% & 20% loss guesstimates used by many tuners and across many forums and performance sites on the net.
I apologize and I will attempt to explain better.

What I have learned from much research is:

There is really no repeatable, "accurate" way to figure the actual HP differences between RWHP and Crankshaft HP.
If you have a tuner who is really, really experienced with your make, model of car, engine and transmission type, they can usually get pretty close.
Some experienced tuners have recorded fairly accurate losses as high as 35% on heavy automatic equipped cars as an example.

The only way to really get close would be to be able to dyno the engine itself first, then install it in the car and dyno it again on a chassis dyno.
Even then you would need the same exact temperature, humidity and engine tune for it to even be close and other variables would still throw it off most likely.
Couple that with the costs associated for the multiple dyno runs necessary and it just isn't worthwhile for most people to really worry about.

So, instead most people use the 15% figure for a manual transmission and the 20% for an automatic transmission to present a calculated, "rough" estimate and like you pointed out, sometimes it may be "way" off.
Very well said
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:51 AM   #21
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Re: Limits

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Very well said

Thank you.

I try my best to give accurate information.
Sometimes I'm wrong and sometimes I assume to much, but I do my best to make corrections when needed, admit when I'm wrong and I won't get into flame wars or arguments.

By participating in the forums I learn as much as I help and I appreciate all the people who are willing to share their knowledge.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:10 PM   #22
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My dad had a stock 88 block with a bd11 powerdyne sc, TF heads, e303 cam trick flow intake and 60 lb injectors and he made 500 to the wheels. It ran a best of 10.90 at 123 in a full body gt.
Work was done by jpcracing
Jpcracing.com is there site
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:53 AM   #23
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Re: Limits

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My dad had a stock 88 block with a bd11 powerdyne sc, TF heads, e303 cam trick flow intake and 60 lb injectors and he made 500 to the wheels. It ran a best of 10.90 at 123 in a full body gt.
Work was done by jpcracing
Jpcracing.com is there site
!!!
I have a stock block, Keith Craft forged bottom end, Paxton Novi 2000 SC, Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, X303 cam, ported lower cobra intake with a Comp Polymers upper, 60 lb. injectors, and a host of other goodies. I am using the DSS Main Support System and the Valley Girdle Pro in hopes of getting 550-650 HP and making the block survive. We'll see how it works out in the near future I hope.
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