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Old 03-16-2012, 01:19 PM   #1
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blowby?

hey im new on this site an it look as if i could learn quite a bit of knoledge from other members... so ive got a 94 gt supercharged with a holley systemax, 30 lb injectors, aluminum heads an so on... i took it to the drag strip last weekend an it ran a 14 an when i was goin down the track the power started cutting in an out at about 4500 rmp and higher in 2nd 3rd an 4th... after that race i discovered that the car had blew out the dipstick and had pushed oil through my oil filler into my fresh air breather then into my intake tubes... i replaced my pcv valve an checked over all vacuumes an everything looked fine.. that didnt help.. so then i was thinkin it was blowby so i checked my plugs to see if there was any sighns of oil which there wasnt... so i replaced the plugs anyways, today i took the car for a drive an it ran the same, kept cutting in an out in high rpms.. wen i parked i poped the hood an noticed there was alot of smoke coming out of the valve cover an dipstick... does anyone have any ideas on wats causing this problem? is it blowby? what should i do next?
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:29 PM   #2
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I'm not no expert or anything and I'm sure others will add to this.but yes it does sound like blow by.your boost seems to be going past your rings and into your crank case.

I would possibly run a compression test to make sure your rings are ok.then you could get a smog pump and use it to help venrilate your crank case.

Is your car professionaly tuned? Because it seems to me 30lb injectors may be a little small.you may be running out of fuel in the high rpms.

How much boost are you running?
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:37 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamstang
I'm not no expert or anything and I'm sure others will add to this.but yes it does sound like blow by.your boost seems to be going past your rings and into your crank case.

I would possibly run a compression test to make sure your rings are ok.then you could get a smog pump and use it to help venrilate your crank case.

Is your car professionaly tuned? Because it seems to me 30lb injectors may be a little small.you may be running out of fuel in the high rpms.

How much boost are you running?
+1 for your listed mods 30# injectors sound way to small, i was looking at a vortech blower for my stock 94 and my tuner told me at only 8# of boost i needed a minimal of 42# injectors to run properly. But also do that compression test it sounds like u might have a bad ring or two
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:47 PM   #4
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Re: blowby?

I just picked The car up about 2 months ago it did run good for The first month... I dont know how must boost An dont know wat kind of tune.... I know it has a stock feul pressure regulator with The 30 lb injectors.. It is running All smogg eguipment including pump besides catted exhaust ..All perfornance parts are smog legal... If it had bad headgaskets would it cause blowby...(excessive crankcase pressure)?
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saleen5.0
I just picked The car up about 2 months ago it did run good for The first month... I dont know how must boost An dont know wat kind of tune.... I know it has a stock feul pressure regulator with The 30 lb injectors.. It is running All smogg eguipment including pump besides catted exhaust ..All perfornance parts are smog legal... If it had bad headgaskets would it cause blowby...(excessive crankcase pressure)?
Well if it is a head gasket then u would be able to see it in the oil, it will be milky and somewhat foaming from antifreeze entering the oiling system.
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:53 PM   #6
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Re: blowby?

Ok so The cutting in and out problem is mostlikely caused by too small of injectors An stock feul pressure regulator? But would bad headgaskets cause blowby?

---------- Post added at 11:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 AM ----------

Wat if The headgasket had a crack from piston to intake? And not piston to oil or water ports?
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:45 PM   #7
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Re: blowby?

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Originally Posted by saleen5.0 View Post
hey im new on this site an it look as if i could learn quite a bit of knoledge from other members... so ive got a 94 gt supercharged with a holley systemax, 30 lb injectors, aluminum heads an so on... i took it to the drag strip last weekend an it ran a 14 an when i was goin down the track the power started cutting in an out at about 4500 rmp and higher in 2nd 3rd an 4th... after that race i discovered that the car had blew out the dipstick and had pushed oil through my oil filler into my fresh air breather then into my intake tubes... i replaced my pcv valve an checked over all vacuumes an everything looked fine.. that didnt help.. so then i was thinkin it was blowby so i checked my plugs to see if there was any sighns of oil which there wasnt... so i replaced the plugs anyways, today i took the car for a drive an it ran the same, kept cutting in an out in high rpms.. wen i parked i poped the hood an noticed there was alot of smoke coming out of the valve cover an dipstick... does anyone have any ideas on wats causing this problem? is it blowby? what should i do next?
As previously stated it is likely your injectors are too small and the engine is not properly tuned.
It also appears from what you are saying that no provisions were made to control the excess crankcase pressure which usually always is a byproduct of forced induction.


1. I would do a compression test to ensure your piston rings are in good shape.


2. Then you should add a crankcase ventilation system that can handle the increased crankcase pressure.


3. Add boost and fuel pressure gauges so you can see how much boost you are making and ensure that you have adequate fuel flow.


4. Replace the 30 lb injectors and MAF with 42 lb injectors and a MAF calibrated for them.


5. Replace the stock fuel pressure regulator with an adjustable regulator.


6. Make sure you have at least a 190 to 255 lph fuel pump and the fuel filter is good.


7. Then have the engine properly tuned. The timing should be retarded ?? degrees for each pound of boost you are producing. Make sure that and your fuel delivery are correct and you should be good to go.


Crankcase ventilation system.
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Old 03-16-2012, 04:47 PM   #8
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Re: blowby?

I have The correct ventilation system... But is sounds to me its The injectors... Im doin The comp.test in about An hour ill let u know how it went.... Thanks for The advice.much appreciated
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Old 03-16-2012, 04:55 PM   #9
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Re: blowby?

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Originally Posted by saleen5.0 View Post
I have The correct ventilation system... But is sounds to me its The injectors... Im doin The comp.test in about An hour ill let u know how it went.... Thanks for The advice.much appreciated
Your ventilation system isn't working right if it is pushing out the dipstick, valve covers and putting oil in the intake.
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Old 03-16-2012, 06:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saleen5.0
I have The correct ventilation system... But is sounds to me its The injectors... Im doin The comp.test in about An hour ill let u know how it went.... Thanks for The advice.much appreciated
we all agree that your injectors are to small.but what is wierd is that you say it ran good before.was this trip to the track the first time you ran it that hard?the reason i ask is if it wasnt always doing this in the high rpms before you may have developed another issue also.

you want to make sure your getting enough fuel.you can tear your motor up very quickly running it lean.also you could have cooling issues.the fuel charge going into your cylinder actualy helps cool the piston down in between revolutions.

lack of fuel+no timing ******+warm cylinders+bad tune= catastrophic failure.

also if you want to get serious a wideband air fuel will help out tremendously making sure you have the proper air fuel charge.

when trojan suggests proper ventilation.he does not just mean the stock pcv system.he means a system specificaly designed for the extra pressure of a forced induction motor.i was just stating this incase you didnt understand what he meant.like in the picture.
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Old 03-16-2012, 06:30 PM   #11
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Get some 42lbs. You should be WELL under a 14 sec
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Old 03-16-2012, 06:32 PM   #12
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Get some 42lbs. You should be WELL under a 14 sec
yes he should but not running poorley.if i had to take a wild guess,which is hard because all vehicles are different i would say 12 sec potential.
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Old 03-16-2012, 06:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamstang

yes he should but not running poorley.if i had to take a wild guess,which is hard because all vehicles are different i would say 12 sec potential.
Oh for sure no doubt about that. Sounds like he just needs to do some test from the sounds of it.

Getting a supercharger in the mix it should be lethal!
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Old 03-17-2012, 01:13 PM   #14
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Re: blowby?

Ok well i did The comp test... All cylinders range from 135 to.145 except The Num 4 had 100 An number 7 had 85 , thats where The blowby is coming from.... So im tearing into The heads this morning to find out why.... But i am not sure if its always.had this problem ive never.really wrapped it out until The drags, and wen it kept cutting in An out, i.didnt push it... Now My pcv system look almost identical to The image above...i also put a pcv that was for a turbo coupe
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Old 03-17-2012, 01:48 PM   #15
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Re: blowby?

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Originally Posted by saleen5.0 View Post
Ok well i did The comp test... All cylinders range from 135 to.145 except The Num 4 had 100 An number 7 had 85 , thats where The blowby is coming from.... So im tearing into The heads this morning to find out why.... But i am not sure if its always.had this problem ive never.really wrapped it out until The drags, and wen it kept cutting in An out, i.didnt push it... Now My pcv system look almost identical to The image above...i also put a pcv that was for a turbo coupe
Yeah, 100 is the lowest pressure a cylinder will fire properly with.
I'm afraid you're likely looking at some bad rings or damaged pistons.
What you described as cutting in and out was probably detonation.
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:39 AM   #16
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Re: blowby?

I was wondering if there was a way to find outwat kind of aluninum heads i have that i just pulled off My car.. There was no markings anywhere except it said SN13920-2 right below The valve cover...
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Old 03-18-2012, 08:41 AM   #17
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Re: blowby?

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Originally Posted by saleen5.0 View Post
I was wondering if there was a way to find outwat kind of aluninum heads i have that i just pulled off My car.. There was no markings anywhere except it said SN13920-2 right below The valve cover...
I performed an extensive Google search and those numbers did not turn up in association with any aluminum heads.
If there is no other information on the heads then you are limited to contacting the previous owner or engine builder to find out what you have.
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:53 PM   #18
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Re: blowby?

Ya theres no other numbers of engraving anywhere and The previous owner doesnt know anything about it either
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Old 03-18-2012, 01:06 PM   #19
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Re: blowby?

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Ya theres no other numbers of engraving anywhere and The previous owner doesnt know anything about it either
Start searching for images of the cheaper aluminum heads and maybe you can match some to yours to figure out what they are.
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Old 03-18-2012, 06:38 PM   #20
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Re: blowby?

Ok thankyou very.much
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:01 PM   #21
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Re: blowby?

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Originally Posted by saleen5.0 View Post
Ok thankyou very.much
i had a wore out motor and was making 90lbs on all eight... would still do a tiny burn out.


i will give u my two cents....

you may wanna make sure both of your valve covers are vented... it will reduce the internal back pressure and keep u from filln your intake and pcv with oil (at least reduce it, dramitcaly)..

you positively need an adjustable fuel pressure regulater...

if you are running 30lbs injectors and an fmu...remove the fmu!!! the fmu is for when your inectors are too small for your application. it will add too much fuel on top end.

if you are running an fmu, you can drop down to 24lbs and it should work fine. but i would stay with 30's and no fmu.

if you put 42lbs injectors on it with a stock pcm and/or no pcm tune... its gonna b rediculous rich and you will be fouln plugs in no time... especialy with only 8psi of boost. u cant run 42's without a pcm tune for your application on a standard stroke motor.

ive tuned with 19, 24, 26, 30, and 42's....@9 and 11psi...yup, i own all of those lol

if u have more questions u can ask here or feel free to p.m. me.


in my opinion... the 30lbs injectors are correct for your application @8psi, with no pcm tune, conservative timing, and cold spark plugs...and nooo fmu.

after u get your other issues straightend out, my info should help
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:44 PM   #22
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Re: blowby?

When researching what I needed for my 306 and the Paxton Novi 2000, I spoke with the guys at Anderson Ford Motorsports. They recommended that I use no smaller than a 42 lb injector at the stock boost of 8 psi because there was a good chance of maxing out the duty cycle on smaller injectors which would lead to leaning out and possibly destroying the engine.


Since I was buying the AFM PMS for tuning, their final recommendation for me was to go ahead and use the 60 lb injectors so I would be covered when I turned up the wick a bit.


The RC Fuel Injection injector calculator shows that a 24 lb injector isn't quite large enough for a 300 BHP at the crank N/A engine, and a 300 BHP at the crank SC engine can just barely squeak by on a 30 lb injector. You'd be much safer going with the 42 lb injectors and tuning for them.
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:11 PM   #23
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Re: blowby?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan Horse View Post
When researching what I needed for my 306 and the Paxton Novi 2000, I spoke with the guys at Anderson Ford Motorsports. They recommended that I use no smaller than a 42 lb injector at the stock boost of 8 psi because there was a good chance of maxing out the duty cycle on smaller injectors which would lead to leaning out and possibly destroying the engine.


Since I was buying the AFM PMS for tuning, their final recommendation for me was to go ahead and use the 60 lb injectors so I would be covered when I turned up the wick a bit.


The RC Fuel Injection injector calculator shows that a 24 lb injector isn't quite large enough for a 300 BHP at the crank N/A engine, and a 300 BHP at the crank SC engine can just barely squeak by on a 30 lb injector. You'd be much safer going with the 42 lb injectors and tuning for them.
as your frenemy....

have u actualy tried what you are talkn bout? id like to talk to the person that told you that... ive tried it, dat 42# shyte @8psi will have u pumpn the fuel ur outa cylinders.. the person that set his car up with 30#'s had a good idea of wut they were doin and set it up to operate on stock pcm parameters.


sorry trojan, but u should have no problem pulln 450rwp wit 30lbs injectors... u need more than the 11psi im running. i make 430 and my feul pressure is turned down pretty low.

anyway, its just my opinion. your s/c manufacturer told u a lil differnt info than my s/c manufacturer.... but i have installed those all those injectors i mentioned above...so i guess experiences may vary.

have to disagree with you, in the most friendly way. he wont be able to drive his own car to the tuner with 42's without fouling out the plugs..i promise you.
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:44 PM   #24
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Re: blowby?

as your frenemy.... Indeed, no arguing, just discussing.

have u actualy tried what you are talkn bout? id like to talk to the person that told you that... ive tried it, dat 42# shyte @8psi will have u pumpn the fuel ur outa cylinders.. the person that set his car up with 30#'s had a good idea of wut they were doin and set it up to operate on stock pcm parameters.

Nope not yet, but I trust AFM's judgement as they have built a lot of very high HP cars. Plus, I will be using the PMS to tune it myself. A member on this forum just had his turbo install finished up and they used 42 lb injectors on 8 psi, with a tune of course.

sorry trojan, but u should have no problem pulln 450rwp wit 30lbs injectors... u need more than the 11psi im running. i make 430 and my feul pressure is turned down pretty low.

I'm shooting for 600+ HP, which is why AFM recommended I go ahead with the 60 lb injectors and tune it with the PMS to handle any hard starting or over fueling issues. They said the 60 lb injectors would work just fine tuned with the PMS at lower boost levels and I would just be using them at a lower duty cycle. The PMS will shorten the injector pulse width to where I can get the correct amount of fuel.


The calculator at RC Fuel Injection doesn't agree with 450 HP and 30 lb injectors and I would hope that they know enough to size their injectors properly. Their calculator recommends a minimum 40.33 lb injector for a 450 HP 8 cylinder engine at 40 psi and the lowest brake specific fuel consumption.
Sorry man, you show what you can get away with, but I have to go safe with the experts so I don't ****can a boatload of expensive parts that have taken me years to save up for and buy.

anyway, its just my opinion. your s/c manufacturer told u a lil differnt info than my s/c manufacturer.... but i have installed those all those injectors i mentioned above...so i guess experiences may vary.


Yes, experiences do vary and my thinking is that while you know enough to get by on the smaller injectors without maxing out their duty cycle and frying your engine, most people won't. They just do not have your skills and tuning abilities. Our personal differences are mainly in that you tend to go conservative and I tend to go for safe, albeit more expensive mod advice most of the time.

have to disagree with you, in the most friendly way. he wont be able to drive his own car to the tuner with 42's without fouling out the plugs..i promise you.


You don't think the stock ECU and a correctly calibrated MAF will get him that far?
I'd think if it was that rich he might just be able to lower the pressure enough to get it there?
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:18 AM   #25
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Re: blowby?

as far as getn him to the tuner with 42's... no (anything is possible though). i ran super rich @11psi with 42's and msd everything. i own them cause i followed similar tuning advice.

i talked to my s/c manufacturer, checked out 3 other similar set-ups in 5.0 magazine...all were running 30lbs injectors.

its kinda funny u say safe versus conservative. two of my friends are running 9-11psi of boost with 24's and they say im being ultra-safe with 30's. but like u, i tell them im not shattering pistons tryn to save fuel..lol.

all seriousness though. i set my car up off of several other ppl's cars. when u pop on a blower its not a good time to try and re-invent the wheel. i used proven safe set-ups. as well as spending lotas time on the phone with powerdyne who now makes lemans/grand am series race car parts.

its one of the reasons i dont use fmu's and btm boxes (for low boost/ low static compression ratio applications).

when u get your blower on you and i should spend some time on the phone. i can explain to you my logic and where i get my info.

my set-up is pretty textbook as far as cam lift and standard stroke bottom end. it yields 420-430hp depending on dyno, intake, and other lil this and thats with 30lbs injectors.. @11-13psi. another buddy of mine makes 450 with smaller lift cam but higher compression heads with 30lbs injectors. he thinks there is something wrong wit my car that im only at 430. i think there is something wrong wit his dyno, but ive heard of other ppl making 450



obviuosly if you are shooting for 5-600hp everything i just said doesnt even remotley apply lol.

---------- Post added at 09:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 AM ----------

also, i agree with all of the tuning advice u gave (or were given) ....if it were a mod motor. modulars need waaaay more fuel per pound of boost than a pushrod motor..

just thought i would throw that in there..lol
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:53 AM   #26
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Re: blowby?

We can definitely get together on the phone if/when I ever get healed up enough to pull on my own wrenches again. I try to learn from anywhere I can and I will appreciate your thoughts and input.

Most everything I know and share is from years of hands on experience and research through phone calls, emails and online searches. What you have achieved is in most cases, contradictory to what I have learned and nothing short of amazing at times. Which I hope helps to explain my disagreement/confusion at times.


My main sources of info for my build are; Paxton Superchargers, AFM, RC Fuel Injection, MSD, MM&FF magazine, Ford Strokers and Keith Craft Racing Engines.


I just don't understand how you can get enough fuel through the smaller injectors to keep from leaning out your engine. It takes a set amount of fuel to safely operate and develop any given amount of HP and you seem to be operating outside these proven parameters.


I didn't mean any offense with the conservative and safe remark. I just meant that you achieve the least expensive results while I'm geared toward the more expensive, but supposedly safer route. I'm really paranoid of damaging my engine, because I went cheap on something. I had it happen once in the past and lost a lot of money and efforts because of it.
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Old 03-19-2012, 11:19 AM   #27
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Re: blowby?

O no, i wasnt offended with the "safe remark" thing. i was just commenting on how i play your role with my friends...lol. or how i think i sound like you to them is wut i meant to say.

i have 5.0 mags going back to '03. and i can pull the articles of the cars im talkn bout that i set my car up around. one guy makes 419 and the only thing different on his car than mine is the intake. he has an edlebrock. this guy runs an fmu and is rockn 24's... and is using my same blower, and the same 11pound pulley im running

another makes around 450 and he's running some crazy 18 degrees of advance... and btm box..

all on 30's. like i said, im not tryn to re-invent the wheel here. i didnt trial and error my set-up. i went with wut other ppl had. now i got sum 42's im just sittn on. im saving them for when i do a boosted 351. but the articles i read, all drop me back off at 30lbs injectors for low boost application on standard stroke. thats tuneable without a pcm upgrade.

of course u can go 42..but u got get the pcm tuned for it. i know u think ima cheapskate willing to tune components to within an inch of its life..lmao. but i assure u thats not the case (as often as u may think..lol)

my fuel pressure is turned down to like 20-22lbs with the 30's. so i got plenty more fuel available should i go with a larger cam.
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Old 03-19-2012, 11:50 AM   #28
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Re: blowby?

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Originally Posted by svtlx View Post
O no, i wasnt offended with the "safe remark" thing. i was just commenting on how i play your role with my friends...lol. or how i think i sound like you to them is wut i meant to say.

i have 5.0 mags going back to '03. and i can pull the articles of the cars im talkn bout that i set my car up around. one guy makes 419 and the only thing different on his car than mine is the intake. he has an edlebrock. this guy runs an fmu and is rockn 24's... and is using my same blower, and the same 11pound pulley im running

another makes around 450 and he's running some crazy 18 degrees of advance... and btm box..

all on 30's. like i said, im not tryn to re-invent the wheel here. i didnt trial and error my set-up. i went with wut other ppl had. now i got sum 42's im just sittn on. im saving them for when i do a boosted 351. but the articles i read, all drop me back off at 30lbs injectors for low boost application on standard stroke. thats tuneable without a pcm upgrade.

of course u can go 42..but u got get the pcm tuned for it. i know u think ima cheapskate willing to tune components to within an inch of its life..lmao. but i assure u thats not the case (as often as u may think..lol)

my fuel pressure is turned down to like 20-22lbs with the 30's. so i got plenty more fuel available should i go with a larger cam.
I have an online subscription to 5.0 Mustang Magazine. Is that the one you are referring to?
Maybe I can look up the back issue articles. If you have time sometimes PM me a few dates and article names and I'll try to look them up and add them to my store of saved information.


! I think I just noticed what our biggest discrepancies occur from.
You are talking about no outside tuning and stock ECU while I'm geared toward and always thinking of using the AFM piggyback tuner or a tuned chip being part of the package.


No man, I don't think of you in the term "cheapskate". The user title I gave you and comments I may make are in jest only. I actually admire your ability to do more with less and I'm willing to learn as much as I can from you.


I just can't wrap my brain around how you can get enough fuel at that low pressure and small injector size.
Sometimes I am extremely dense though and it takes a while before I can figure out for myself how something works or should work, but I usually get there in time. Much patience required.
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:04 PM   #29
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sv and th you two are pools of knowledge, just through your discussion im learning loads. thanks
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:27 PM   #30
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Re: blowby?

Ok well thanks forbthe info guys... But one question wat is The fmu?
Let me tell u All that i know about My car,
I have a xxx 306 block with holley systemax upper and lower, with a edelbrock 75mm tb An tb spacer,
vortech v1 supercharger withim pretty sure An 8lb pulley maybe a Lil smaller,
76mm maf, red top 30lb injectors, aluminum heads that are All studded, and have dual valve springsbut idk wat make of heads, 1.7 crane cam pro gold roller rockers with 6.275/ 0.080 pushro ds, speed pro flat top pistons .30 over, and a pretty lopey cam, All msd ignition, header to tip bassani exhaust, and underdrive pulleys... Thats just boltons to The motor.. I do have The pcv for a turbo Coupe.. All smogg equipment is still being rAn
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:33 PM   #31
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fmu increases fuel pressure to allow smaller injectors to fuel a supercharged engine instead of using bigger injectors and tuning for the supercharger injector combo
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:40 PM   #32
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Hey svt.

What size fuel lines are you running?and is that even relavint to the low pressure your running? I'm just curious also with the lower pressure your running.do you use a wideband or anything to tune with?

Your knowledge is obviously way above mine and I'm just a little more curious of your tuning techniques as I know I've heard you say how reliable your setup is.and that your been running it for years.
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:22 PM   #33
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Re: blowby?

Wat does fmu stand for not abbreviated?
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:23 PM   #34
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Re: blowby?

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Wat does fmu stand for not abbreviated?
Fuel Management Unit
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:29 PM   #35
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Re: blowby?

Oh ya duh, lol thanks.. So wat do u think about My setup trojanhorse?
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