am i about to lose 3rd - Mustang Evolution

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Old 04-05-2012, 08:06 AM   #1
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am i about to lose 3rd

Just started on way home min ago...shift to 3rd and hear chattering while Accelerating. Didn't romp on it very light normal Acceleration. Only in 3rd, no problems moving shifter. I'm piss poor as always can't do anything now or soon. What could this be? How can I um drive for a lengthy period of time without fixing or ruining it more? Skip 3rd? How fast should I go before dropping to 4th...40 maybe. How ill do this in traffic or if police around because my car is loud and they'll think I'm racing.
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:02 PM   #2
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Re: am i about to lose 3rd

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Just started on way home min ago...shift to 3rd and hear chattering while Accelerating. Didn't romp on it very light normal Acceleration. Only in 3rd, no problems moving shifter. I'm piss poor as always can't do anything now or soon. What could this be? How can I um drive for a lengthy period of time without fixing or ruining it more? Skip 3rd? How fast should I go before dropping to 4th...40 maybe. How ill do this in traffic or if police around because my car is loud and they'll think I'm racing.
Third gear is usually "the gear most likely" to fail in a T5.
I would guess that is because it is the hardest gear to "hit" when power shifting or just shifting fast.
Check your fluid level and make sure it isn't low.
Once it has started chattering or making noise failure is pretty much imminent and the time period is very variable depending on how badly it is damaged and how it is driven afterward.
If you baby it and do not pour on the power in third it may last for some time and then again it may not. There is really no way to determine how long.
If you want to skip third you will just have to try it a few times and see what speeds will work without lugging the engine excessively.


Start saving up for a rebuild kit. Example: Jegs Kit
They range from around $250 & up depending on parts needed and parts quality.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:07 PM   #3
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Thx. Ya got home in morn. When went to leave later in day I wasn't having it. 3rd very loud chatter. There was traffic so drive in 2nd. Decided to turn off to parents, tried the skipping 3rd cause I had room, I just heard grinding so backed back out and limped I'm 2nd to there house. Any opinion on ram clutches? Per late model, they have whole kit for 350. Otherwise shop will get parts, don't know what they'll get. Getting more brave to di things self, but not trying trans work.

---------- Post added at 10:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 PM ----------

Also didn't think could check fluid level in manual?
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:38 PM   #4
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Re: am i about to lose 3rd

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Thx. Ya got home in morn. When went to leave later in day I wasn't having it. 3rd very loud chatter. There was traffic so drive in 2nd. Decided to turn off to parents, tried the skipping 3rd cause I had room, I just heard grinding so backed back out and limped I'm 2nd to there house. Any opinion on ram clutches? Per late model, they have whole kit for 350. Otherwise shop will get parts, don't know what they'll get. Getting more brave to di things self, but not trying trans work.

---------- Post added at 10:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 PM ----------

Also didn't think could check fluid level in manual?
I prefer the Centerforce Dual Friction Clutches. Less pedal effort, 90% increase in holding power.


Yes, you can check, fill or drain the fluid.
There is a diagram showing where the fill and drain plugs are on page 2-5 of this pdf document - T-5 Transmission
Fluid should be right at or dripping out of fill hole.
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Old 04-06-2012, 03:50 AM   #5
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K thx I look at pdf if can on phone and haynes after Work. Car whenever I have a bteak from work.
.sunday daytime or Tuesday

---------- Post added at 02:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 AM ----------

This may be the case...I have beem seeing something leaking/spotting under car. Thought was power steering again but that seems yo be ok. Fluid seemed clear when rubbed groind with finger though.
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Old 04-08-2012, 05:12 PM   #6
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Can't open pdf. When I locate these plugs..do I only take out fill plug to check? If low can I just top off for now or do I have to pull drain plug and let drain then refill from what looks like almost 3 qts from googling?
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Old 04-08-2012, 05:41 PM   #7
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what i would do is jack the car up and put it on 4 jack stands.this is so the car is somewhat level.take just the fill plug out first.if nothing is coming out,then use a piece of wire to see how low it is.this will help you know if it was a part of the problem.

the other option is drain all the fluid via the lowest plug.leave it in the pan.refill with new fluid.about 2.8 liters is the amount it will take to get to come out of the hole.then drain the fluid back into the liter bottles also so you know how much it was low.you may need to rig a hose to the fluid bottle to get it back in there properly.

im not sure on these trannies but alot of guys dont recommend replacing the fluid if it hasnt been doing normally.i attached a pic so you can get an idea of where the plugs are.i think all you need is a 3/8 drive ratchet with no socket to get the plugs out.i would use teflon on the plugs when reinstalling so they dont leak.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:10 PM   #8
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Re: am i about to lose 3rd

You probably need to download and install the free Adobe Reader application to view PDF files.
Here is a more detailed picture.





Do not ever take this out unless you want to remove the transmission and take it apart to reassemble it.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:24 PM   #9
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Sounds good ill look into it. Ill have to get jack stands though. I hope this is the case I'm getting teased and making me angry lol. A while back someone showed up in my complex with a clean white one ptob 91 or 92, driving to work there was a grey convertible for sale at a dealer, now its in someones garage around corner from parents, then today someone has a black gt visiting someone. Why do I have to be so piss poor and this car require everything. I want to get back in it and hear it gurgle. My parents car is a grand am, can't say I really like it.

---------- Post added at 05:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:21 PM ----------

Oh ya also, just peeked under car in parents garage, almost no spots except small one under bell housing. Rubbed finger in seems to be mostly clear kinda a yellowish or cream hue. Shouldn't trans fluid be red?
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:28 PM   #10
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it depends on what fluid is used.make sure u get the right fluid for your trans.if yours takes gear oil it wont be red.

if you dont have jack stands thats fine if you have some other means of tgetting the car level high enough to get under there.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:32 PM   #11
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Ya I have a jack, thought you just wanted it level to check. Ill look it haynes if it says, but googling people say not to use gear oil
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90fox
Ya I have a jack, thought you just wanted it level to check. Ill look it haynes if it says, but googling people say not to use gear oil
ealrier models require gear oil.newer models take automatic trans fluid.the best way to tell is looking up the metal tag id on the back of trans.it will tell you for certain which trans you have.unless for certain you know that your car has never had tranny work.which unless you owned the car forever you dont really know.

yes the car needs to be level.what i meant is if u can do it another way that is fine.like bricks under the tire.lol just saying thats all.
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Old 04-08-2012, 08:49 PM   #13
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Do I need a torque wrench? What will the tag tell me? Its a 90 w I believe a short throw
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:01 PM   #14
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no torque wrench.

the metal tag will tell you what transmission you have if your not 100% sure what it is.

---------- Post added at 09:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 PM ----------

once you look at the tag use this chart http://www.moderndriveline.com/Techn...ssion_spec.htm to verify your trans.once you know exactly what your trans is then figure out the fluid you have/need. if you already know what trans you have then this is not neccesary.i would take this precaution if your not positive because the wrong fluid/oil will kill your trans pretty fast.
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:10 AM   #15
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Nice thx. Are filler/drain bolts just behind bell housing on side, what pic looked like? Where should the tag be

---------- Post added at 01:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:09 AM ----------

Nm 2nd q in other post
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Old 04-09-2012, 07:22 AM   #16
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Plug On side.
Tag near the back
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Old 04-09-2012, 07:49 AM   #17
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Ya I just read my haynes. Ill check it out in bit. Bought a cheap ratchet set and little hand pump bottle. Stands more than wanna spend. See if I can sqeeze under or if parents have a lot of bricks. I have some mark viii rims lol, 1 is already dented in backside when i lost it and jumped curb. Which in turn made me have to sell my f100 I fixed up and loved to get new rims/tires. Still kinda dusturbs me.
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:18 AM   #18
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No go need stands. I can see filler bolt. Can't sqeeze under enough to look for tag. Pretty sure gonna be gear oil, rubbed finger in spot again that looked darker. Little orange maybe def not red. It has to be leaking from bell housing. Hopefully i can just add fluid to get it moving wo the clatter in 3rd. Then have checked and fixed.
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:27 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90fox
No go need stands. I can see filler bolt. Can't sqeeze under enough to look for tag. Pretty sure gonna be gear oil, rubbed finger in spot again that looked darker. Little orange maybe def not red. It has to be leaking from bell housing. Hopefully i can just add fluid to get it moving wo the clatter in 3rd. Then have checked and fixed.
If you can get a sample of the oil.and take it to a reputable auto parts store.maybe they can tell you for sure what oil it is. the gear oil will be thicker than auto trans fluid.if its gear oil its most likely 70 w.you also may be alright without the car perfectly level if you drain the whole thing and add 2.8 liters of new.just some ideas.
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:54 PM   #20
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Ok found stamp
R3
Berg werner
13-52-066-919

There is one underneath too I think that one is eozr-639-aa
Ill try to google or call shop. Then pull filler and Check. Called shop other day said should be merkon, someone could have put gear oil to quiet down. The little spot I saw is like clear or orange gelly almost. Also tjough he said if I see leaking below bell housing I have a trans prob. Frankly I'm a grown man feel like crying everytime I think lol. Put a ton in this don't have. 2 jobs and dd. If I got something else dirt cheap it would prob be busy
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:08 PM   #21
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the stamp on the side is inaccurate.the same case can be used for many models.the only way to tell for sure is the tag.
here is a goodd info link http://www.moderndriveline.com/Techn...t5_history.htm

note in the article :
lOne last piece of important information. ALL World Class T-5 use ATF (Dextron III) oil and NOT heavy gear oil or Redline MTL! All NON-World Class T-5 use 50 wt gear oil. (The original Ford/Borg-Warner recommendation back in 1984 was Dextron II. As this is no longer available, we and TREMEC recommend the 50 wt gear oil.) We recommend high quality Synthetic oil as it lasts a long time and over a larger operating temperature. It is important to change the oil in your transmission based on how you use the vehicle. If the vehicle is your daily driver then changing the oil every two to three years is fine. However, if the transmission sees regular track duty and pushed hard, then once or twice a year is in order. When we rebuild transmissions, we can tell when the oil has been changed often as the parts are much cleaner with less over all wear. There is no filter inside the manual transmission only a magnet at the bottom to pick up the metallic particles in the oil, the only metallic parts in a transmission is the gears or bearings. Oil is cheap, transmissions are not!

---------- Post added at 06:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:07 PM ----------

just an idea. i picked up my tranny at the boneyard for 250$ it still had the factory shifter on it.and the shifter felt brand new with no slop so i was confident that it was ok.they also offered a small warranty.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:37 PM   #22
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Thx for all Info. Fail on all fronts bp boiling. Ya I googled and read stamp is useless. Can't see any tag, but I only lifted a little
No stands and have been paranoid whole life about correct spot for jack. Tried to get out filler bolt, won't budge. Sprayed tiny bit wd40. I was laying on ground arms half bent can't get any torque on it
Side note while under there, seems to be coolant all over bell housing, oil pump and Gasket. I know I need oil pan eventually, dented at rear plug. Doesn't leak though, mech can get in out. Gasket looks ugly. Also bolts in bell housing some look might not be totally tight. Some look like peek through other side others do not. Fail 2 still looking for pcv. I was literally laying on top of intake and still can see nothing. At least I started it and it sounds beautiful. Now your opinions. First off maybe the off color I saw of fluid is due to it mixing w coolant on way down? Then /clutch pushes in fine no problems, I can put in out gears np. When idling in neutral I hear rattling. I put ib first to shut down seemed to quiet. Not attempting driving. Lot of clatter other day in 3rd. Do you think I'm having clutch problem, bearings or god forbid my trans. I've had power issues in past thought was other issues, possibly trsns prob? Sorry I blab and once again thank you
As far as coolant stuff....I have a new radiator, water pump, tstat, hoses, clamps. Before tstat,wp level in resovoir never moved. Now after those and rad/hoses coolant disapears from resovoir.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:58 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90fox
Thx for all Info. Fail on all fronts bp boiling. Ya I googled and read stamp is useless. Can't see any tag, but I only lifted a little
No stands and have been paranoid whole life about correct spot for jack. Tried to get out filler bolt, won't budge. Sprayed tiny bit wd40. I was laying on ground arms half bent can't get any torque on it
Side note while under there, seems to be coolant all over bell housing, oil pump and Gasket. I know I need oil pan eventually, dented at rear plug. Doesn't leak though, mech can get in out. Gasket looks ugly. Also bolts in bell housing some look might not be totally tight. Some look like peek through other side others do not. Fail 2 still looking for pcv. I was literally laying on top of intake and still can see nothing. At least I started it and it sounds beautiful. Now your opinions. First off maybe the off color I saw of fluid is due to it mixing w coolant on way down? Then /clutch pushes in fine no problems, I can put in out gears np. When idling in neutral I hear rattling. I put ib first to shut down seemed to quiet. Not attempting driving. Lot of clatter other day in 3rd. Do you think I'm having clutch problem, bearings or god forbid my trans. I've had power issues in past thought was other issues, possibly trsns prob? Sorry I blab and once again thank you
As far as coolant stuff....I have a new radiator, water pump, tstat, hoses, clamps. Before tstat,wp level in resovoir never moved. Now after those and rad/hoses coolant disapears from resovoir.
Just a thought, if ur loosening coolant , may be It's saturating the clutch disc causing it to chatter. Fix leak and should go away.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:08 PM   #24
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ok.jack points are in front of rear tires and behind the front tires.there should be a plate there.i usually put the jack as close to the subframe on that point as possible.if you still have your owners maual this should be in there.now honestly i dont ever get under a car thats not supported.

for the filler bolt.it may help to use an extension because the ratchet will be very close to the case.wd40 may help but i would try a better penetrating oil and allow it time to soak.also try not to mess it up but if you tap the plug with a hammer it may help unfreezing it.or there is always the cheater pipe technique.

as for the coolant.i would check any coolant lines near the back.hopefully its not the intake gasket.but what i would do to help with all the leaks is get under there and clean everything off really good with some degreaser.that way you can keep checking on it and it will be easier to pin point the leaks.because you will be able to see where they are dripping from instead of a mess everywhere.i would also suspect any areas that changed when this happened.

im not sure of the bell housing bolts.but all sticking out different amounts tells me that possibly someone has had it off and/or changed it.and unless your doing the clutch you wont need to take the bell housing off the motor.just trans off the bell housing.

now the clutch.it is possible that it just needs adjusted.it is most likely not your proplem but i guess it never hurts to make sure its adjusted properly.you should have around 1/2-1 " of freeplay on the top of the pedal.if you need a procedure im sure we can find you one.

in the link i posted it does say how to tell what trans you have without the tag.unfortunaty the trans has to be out to see the bearing retainer(or whatever it was).if you feel like tackling the trans its definatly time to invest in some jackstands.if you look around you maybe able to pickup a set for 20-30$.if not maybe burrow some?
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:22 PM   #25
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Tc that what I just thought of and hope. I should take it back to place that's done all work. Ntm maybe week before went down to ask about pcv and power loss. He test drove got into hard like has before when taking me for test drives. Dream as far as bolt...couldn't find penetrating stuff that's why sprayed wd and very small amount. Prob need angled extension, had small one wouldn't fit. Couldn't find any sort of breaker bar aside from a attachment to a vacuum that looked perfect lol but obviously couldn't use that mom would freak. I'm think clutch is ok or hoping tc is right. I've never had prob engaging or disingaging, and there prob is the little play at top as you said should be. Also this is my 1st manual. So yes I ride clutch a little in 1st and reverse.

---------- Post added at 07:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 PM ----------

Oh ya and as far as intake gasket. That is one of first things did. Had an intake man gasket set and valve cover gaskets replaced. Mechanically speaking I have replaced a ton.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:25 PM   #26
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i suppose what tc said is possible.but you can check it.there is a cover on the driverside of the trans.it only has one small bolt on it.that is where your clutch cable attaches to the fork.if you take that off you will be able to see in there.not very good but you may be able to see if coolant is getting in there.

---------- Post added at 08:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:24 PM ----------

whoever replaced the other stuff and caused the leak.i would make them check it out.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:35 PM   #27
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K ill do that next time have chance

---------- Post added at 07:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:26 PM ----------

Prob being all been related but not. I was having them done or finding one by one. I had wp and tstat replaced. Got back heard rattling and nearly overheated on way home, found fan shroud just laying in there not bolted. Reattached no noise no temp prob. Then saw more leaks thought was coming down lower hose. Then saw more spraying out of s one going to wp. Replaced all I fed up used fancy cheap clamps. Took for drive temp getti g real hot then poof steam, shut down found lower hose off. Had towed then they redid my hoses and replaced radiator. Then discovered coolant disapears from rwsovoir...that's where I'm at. Thought I had leaks almost done, but ya just saw all over bell housing and oil pan.

---------- Post added at 07:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:33 PM ----------

I really hope this is somwthing simple. Due to coolant should I take back to shop to find that 1st or to trans place. I have min tools, knowledge and space
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:42 PM   #28
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if its all over the bell housing it may not be from the wp or thermstat.but maybe you could tell them that its been leaking since they touched it.and even if its not something they did it maybe a free look for you.

---------- Post added at 08:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:37 PM ----------

with your resources it maybe worth just taking it to a shop and letting them trouble shoot it.most shops will charge about 1 hour labor(75-125$) and will give you an exact answer to your proplems.but remember we are here to help as much as you need if you want to tackle this.i would suggest at least a haymes manual and jackstands.

---------- Post added at 08:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 PM ----------

i would worry about the coolant first IMO.if you overheat it u could blow a head hasket or worse.at least with your trans you could skip 3rd.but both problems would be a concern.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:42 PM   #29
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Ya pretty positive not wp, tstat, rad, hoses. They look ok now. Coolant lines to intake? Free look possible, they have gone above and beyond few times. Id have to have towed though. Don't wanna rev and drive in 2nd there.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:45 PM   #30
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i dont know exactly what your car is like because i cant drive it.but i would think you could just not use 3 gear.it could be done pretty easily.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:46 PM   #31
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+1 on jack stands & manual. The only way to get experience is by doing. The more u do , the more confedence ull have.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:49 PM   #32
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Ya labor is 75 there. Need stands. Have haynes even though most jibberish to me, I'm a hands on guy. Not having any overheating issues. Actually nevet have except one quick thing when found shroud was near read and my crappy hose job steam did come out decent amount. Shut off immed pushed in parking lot. Before tstat/wp temp gage always at bottom. Now usually is pointing about at flag or lower. Right in middle sometimes.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:50 PM   #33
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Check exaust for coolant coming out.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:50 PM   #34
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+1 on jack stands & manual. The only way to get experience is by doing. The more u do , the more confedence ull have.
yes.everything i learned was from doing it myself.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:53 PM   #35
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Maybe ill try to drive again tomorrow and skip 3rd. I tried real quick on way to parents but I heard grinding when went to put in firth so immed took out back in neutral backed off and back in 2nd. Might not of been going fast enough to put in 4th. I know its a mustang but I don't like to rev it lol. Mech always told me 2nd was my pulling gear. I always argued thought 3rd was. Doesn't rev nearly as quick. Prob all apart of me being paranoid not wanting to rev and blow something up.
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