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Old 08-06-2012, 02:54 PM   #1
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Motor Dilema

I've been debating this for a few months, wanna see what you guys think. As of now im pushing 548 to the wheels on 14 lbs, however this is on a completely untouched 302 factory block. I've done everything possible that can be done with this motor minus a girdle/tray, it's fully forged etc.. I've already decided to do a rebuild with a dart 351 as my base. Now the question I have, is would you guys keep it as is for now, and wait until the block is destroyed as its only a matter of time, or would you just go ahead and start the rebuild. My only concern with waiting until I blow this motor is I plan on swapping quite a few things over when I do the rebuild, but god knows what the catastrophic blowing off a motor can do to the vehicle/aftermarket parts. So what would some of you guys do?
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:05 PM   #2
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Rebuild it
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:23 PM   #3
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I say if you can do the rebuild now go for it. Not worth risking catastrophic fauilure one usable parts as you mention.
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Old 08-06-2012, 05:07 PM   #4
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548rwhp on a stock block and bottom end not girdled???? Very confused. Do you have a Dyno sheet? Run down the list of mods? I'm at 420rwhp 483tq on 15psi fully built..
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90GTNovi2000
548rwhp on a stock block and bottom end not girdled???? Very confused. Do you have a Dyno sheet? Run down the list of mods? I'm at 420rwhp 483tq on 15psi fully built..
I do have dyno sheets, tons of them actually, here's one from a couple years back right after the supercharger was installed @ less than 13lbs, car was tuned at National speed inc out of wilmington NC and i believe they have a few vids on there youtube channel of my dynos. This was also without the methanol kit. I have newer dyno sheets but there on my iPad and ME doesn't have an iPad app so I'm just digging through pics on my phone.

Major upgrades would be:
Stock block (32k miles)
Trickflow intake
Custom cam from Anderson
All internals forged topped with a set of JE pistons
Snow methanol injection
Vortech x trim @ 14lbs
AFR heads
Anderson powerpipe
90mm TB

Tons of smaller other components but these are some of the major upgrades I've done over the last 6 years.

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Old 08-06-2012, 09:43 PM   #6
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nice..

btw im on the ipad app posting this.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:44 PM   #7
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What!? I've looked in the app store a thousand times and can't find it. What do I search under?
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:45 PM   #8
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try searching ford mustang owners community .. i think. if that doesnt work ill look.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:47 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by dreamstang
try searching ford mustang owners community .. i think. if that doesnt work ill look.
Son of a *****, it popped right up. Been searching under mustang evolution this whole time. If I could I'd kiss your ***! Appreciate it!
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith3623

I do have dyno sheets, tons of them actually, here's one from a couple years back right after the supercharger was installed @ less than 13lbs, car was tuned at National speed inc out of wilmington NC and i believe they have a few vids on there youtube channel of my dynos. This was also without the methanol kit. I have newer dyno sheets but there on my iPad and ME doesn't have an iPad app so I'm just digging through pics on my phone.

Major upgrades would be:
Stock block (32k miles)
Trickflow intake
Custom cam from Anderson
All internals forged topped with a set of JE pistons
Snow methanol injection
Vortech x trim @ 14lbs
AFR heads
Anderson powerpipe
90mm TB

Tons of smaller other components but these are some of the major upgrades I've done over the last 6 years.
these are upgrades your gonna do with the 351? what size afr's are you going with?

---------- Post added at 09:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith3623

Son of a *****, it popped right up. Been searching under mustang evolution this whole time. If I could I'd kiss your ***! Appreciate it!
lol. yeah its weird the way it searches.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamstang

these are upgrades your gonna do with the 351? what size afr's are you going with?

---------- Post added at 09:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 PM ----------



lol. yeah its weird the way it searches.
Right now I'm running 205's. Plan on keeping these heads on the 351 as there basically brand new, maybe 1k miles on them. I've owned the car for over 6 years and just barely over 5500 miles during that time.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:59 PM   #12
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At mid 500 hp and not supported you must have been pretty easy on her? Those heads should work great on the 351 also.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:02 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by dreamstang
At mid 500 hp and not supported you must have been pretty easy on her? Those heads should work great on the 351 also.
I definitely baby it more than I abuse it. It's hard to constantly beat on a car with such low mileage. Don't get me wrong, I'll run the **** out of it every now and then, but even when I do I try to stay smart about it as I've known it's only a matter of time before it self destructs.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:06 PM   #14
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are all those mods you listed current mods? or mods you plan on doing to the 351?

also we like to see build threads so when you get at it keep us updated.

---------- Post added at 10:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:04 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith3623

I definitely baby it more than I abuse it. It's hard to constantly beat on a car with such low mileage. Don't get me wrong, I'll run the **** out of it every now and then, but even when I do I try to stay smart about it as I've known it's only a matter of time before it self destructs.
it may even be a good idea for a girdle on the 351. then if you upgrade even more you will still be safe.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:48 PM   #15
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The mods are pretty impressive. Just a lil more than mine has but making a lot more power. I have the AFR 165 heads w/a lil b cam. But my block is safe on my tune, I'm also in the slow process of building a 351w and stroking it to a 408. Have you ran yours at the track?

---------- Post added at 10:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith3623

I do have dyno sheets, tons of them actually, here's one from a couple years back right after the supercharger was installed @ less than 13lbs, car was tuned at National speed inc out of wilmington NC and i believe they have a few vids on there youtube channel of my dynos. This was also without the methanol kit. I have newer dyno sheets but there on my iPad and ME doesn't have an iPad app so I'm just digging through pics on my phone.

Major upgrades would be:
Stock block (32k miles)
Trickflow intake
Custom cam from Anderson
All internals forged topped with a set of JE pistons
Snow methanol injection
Vortech x trim @ 14lbs
AFR heads
Anderson powerpipe
90mm TB

Tons of smaller other components but these are some of the major upgrades I've done over the last 6 years.
so is it 500+ or 479rwhp and 391tq on 12 psi is what I read on the Dyno sheet. But I'm new to the tuning and boost game.. Well kinda new...
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:37 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90GTNovi2000
The mods are pretty impressive. Just a lil more than mine has but making a lot more power. I have the AFR 165 heads w/a lil b cam. But my block is safe on my tune, I'm also in the slow process of building a 351w and stroking it to a 408. Have you ran yours at the track?

---------- Post added at 10:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 PM ----------



so is it 500+ or 479rwhp and 391tq on 12 psi is what I read on the Dyno sheet. But I'm new to the tuning and boost game.. Well kinda new...
The way the car sits right now on a 93 tune it's at 548 rwhp @ 14lbs. The sheet I posted was before we upped the boost, installed the Anderson powerpipe and the snow methanol kit.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:53 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamstang
are all those mods you listed current mods? or mods you plan on doing to the 351?

also we like to see build threads so when you get at it keep us updated.

---------- Post added at 10:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:04 PM ----------



it may even be a good idea for a girdle on the 351. then if you upgrade even more you will still be safe.
Yes all mod are what's on the current 302. I more than likely wont plan on girdling the 351, I cant ever remember seeing a dart block have any problems handling anything under 1k hp, so with my planned setup I won't be putting out anywhere close to the capabilities of the block.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:54 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith3623

Yes all mod are what's on the current 302. I more than likely wont plan on girdling the 351, I cant ever remember seeing a dart block have any problems handling anything under 1k hp, so with my planned setup I won't be putting out anywhere close to the capabilities of the block.
Oh ya. I forgot u said dart block.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:05 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90GTNovi2000
The mods are pretty impressive. Just a lil more than mine has but making a lot more power. I have the AFR 165 heads w/a lil b cam. But my block is safe on my tune, I'm also in the slow process of building a 351w and stroking it to a 408. Have you ran yours at the track
didn't you buy your car built though? And I don't mean that in a negative way, just wondering if you've done any tuning etc to the car since you've owned it. I'm pretty sure you'd like to stay right where the car is now as like you said, it's safe on the block. But I know with 15lbs you could squeeze more power out of your setup.

---------- Post added at 06:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:01 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith3623

didn't you buy your car built though? And I don't mean that in a negative way, just wondering if you've done any tuning etc to the car since you've owned it. I'm pretty sure you'd like to stay right where the car is now as like you said, it's safe on the block. But I know with 15lbs you could squeeze more power out of your setup.
Also what sc are you running on your car? Just curious.

---------- Post added at 06:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:02 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamstang

Oh ya. I forgot u said dart block.
Yea I would of liked to do this from the beginning, however it's a lot easier to convince my wife on spending a few hundred dollars every couple of months than it is talking her into letting me spend 10k dollars over the course of a couple weeks on an engine build.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:27 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith3623

didn't you buy your car built though? And I don't mean that in a negative way, just wondering if you've done any tuning etc to the car since you've owned it. I'm pretty sure you'd like to stay right where the car is now as like you said, it's safe on the block. But I know with 15lbs you could squeeze more power out of your setup.

---------- Post added at 06:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:01 AM ----------



Also what sc are you running on your car? Just curious.

---------- Post added at 06:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:02 AM ----------



Yea I would of liked to do this from the beginning, however it's a lot easier to convince my wife on spending a few hundred dollars every couple of months than it is talking her into letting me spend 10k dollars over the course of a couple weeks on an engine build.
Only the best Paxton novi 2000.. Yes I gave $5800 for mine. But I have assisted and built 4 other turbo s/c cars. Just never handled much tuning. My car is capable of close to 500rwhp on e85, but I'm not gonna throw any mods at this lil motor. Do you know how your car does at the track? It's prob very quick if it hooks.. Mine runs 6.9 on trans brake 7.3 on foot. The rest of the car is also modded along with the engine..
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Old 08-07-2012, 08:08 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by 90GTNovi2000

Only the best Paxton novi 2000.. Yes I gave $5800 for mine. But I have assisted and built 4 other turbo s/c cars. Just never handled much tuning. My car is capable of close to 500rwhp on e85, but I'm not gonna throw any mods at this lil motor. Do you know how your car does at the track? It's prob very quick if it hooks.. Mine runs 6.9 on trans brake 7.3 on foot. The rest of the car is also modded along with the engine..
Have a few passes before the supercharger, the tracks around here are garbage though, almost to the point it's scary to run on. Seen quite a few cars slam into the walls, they don't do any type of prep work on these tracks so it's just a run at your own risk. Years of tire debris. Even when my car was NA I had traction problems with a set of 275 nitto555. Never taken the car down a strip with a set of slicks. So your car is pretty much set up strictly for drag?
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Old 08-07-2012, 08:26 AM   #22
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Naw not really.. But it's not daily driver friendly cause the c4. But I would love to drive it daily but have a company vehicle, it has a pa supercomp c4 fully built w/ brake. Aluminum driveshaft with safety loop, built 8.8 no spool but all the goodies 327 gears. Saleen suspension ac and heat!! It's really just a toy that can go surprise the hell out of a zr1 light to light.. I know the feeling on the nitto's mine spins them at a 50punch not always fun.. But with slicks from a dig mine is a lil beast.. But you have a better cam than me and bigger heads also the meth injection on 14psi 540ish rwhp sounds right, but I would tune it down a lil just so you can possibly use the heads and other goodies if you don't blow it for your 351 swap. Or do what I'm gonna do build the 351 then sale the 306 for about $2000
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:38 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by 90GTNovi2000
Naw not really.. But it's not daily driver friendly cause the c4. But I would love to drive it daily but have a company vehicle, it has a pa supercomp c4 fully built w/ brake. Aluminum driveshaft with safety loop, built 8.8 no spool but all the goodies 327 gears. Saleen suspension ac and heat!! It's really just a toy that can go surprise the hell out of a zr1 light to light.. I know the feeling on the nitto's mine spins them at a 50punch not always fun.. But with slicks from a dig mine is a lil beast.. But you have a better cam than me and bigger heads also the meth injection on 14psi 540ish rwhp sounds right, but I would tune it down a lil just so you can possibly use the heads and other goodies if you don't blow it for your 351 swap. Or do what I'm gonna do build the 351 then sale the 306 for about $2000
Is your c4 OD? If not it's gotta be pretty rough tryin to do any type of driving on the highway. I had a 93 lx with an art carr c4 with no OD, would turn about 3400rpm doing any driving over 60-65mph on the interstate. Luckily it had a dss lvl 20 so it was built to handle high rpm's. I don't think I'll ever plan on getting rid of the original block. I bought the car completely stock and have saved everything so far and I probably always will.
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:11 AM   #24
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Re: Motor Dilema

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Originally Posted by 90GTNovi2000 View Post
548rwhp on a stock block and bottom end not girdled???? Very confused. Do you have a Dyno sheet? Run down the list of mods? I'm at 420rwhp 483tq on 15psi fully built..
different super chargers make a BIG difference in power
say 15lbs with a Vortech S trim as opposed to 15lbs with an x-trim or a Paxton Novi etc , you could swap those S/C around using the same engine and come up with 3 totally different power outcomes with the same boost ..........
I see you from your sig you have a Novi
I made 636 on a 331 stroker and 18lbs of boost with a novi back in my day
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:06 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith3623

Is your c4 OD? If not it's gotta be pretty rough tryin to do any type of driving on the highway. I had a 93 lx with an art carr c4 with no OD, would turn about 3400rpm doing any driving over 60-65mph on the interstate. Luckily it had a dss lvl 20 so it was built to handle high rpm's. I don't think I'll ever plan on getting rid of the original block. I bought the car completely stock and have saved everything so far and I probably always will.
I wish it was an od supercomp but it's a full blown street/strip trans..

---------- Post added at 06:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:59 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by stampde

different super chargers make a BIG difference in power
say 15lbs with a Vortech S trim as opposed to 15lbs with an x-trim or a Paxton Novi etc , you could swap those S/C around using the same engine and come up with 3 totally different power outcomes with the same boost ..........
I see you from your sig you have a Novi
I made 636 on a 331 stroker and 18lbs of boost with a novi back in my day
Why is that? A centrifugal is a centrifugal.... I guess internals could allow less friction and quicker spooling blades? Im not doubting the numbers, I was more curious of the setup. Rapinator a member on this site has a 1000+hp fox I believe it's a 331 dart block..
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