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Old 10-02-2012, 07:19 PM   #1
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roller rockers and lifters help

ok fellas,

i dont know if anyone has seen my questions in what it takes?
but here it is.

my car sat for about 3 weeks with the a$$ jacked up in the air doing rear end work. i dont know if that is relevant but i will give any and all info i can to better help the investigation.

after i finished my rear end and fired it up, i heard a noise in the passenger side valve cover. this current setup has been running flawlessly for about 6 months.

i have set the roller rockers 2 previous times. the reason being was i forgot to put thread sealant on the lower head bolts and had serious water leak problem. this maybe a factor because A: maybe water damaged the lifter? and B: this isnt my first rodeo. lol

so anyways i didnt even hear the noise at first. when i did a small rev i heard it. its not a very steady/consistant noise. but i did only let the car run for about 1 minute. i shut it down because the noise worried me.

so upon pulling the valve covers i found that all the rockers were loose. loose enough that i could spin the pushrods in my fingers when the valves were shut. i am absolutly positive i used the right firing order.

so what i did next was go through the firing order and reset the valve train. when i got back to 0* tdc they were all loose again. even if i had used the wrong firing order 1 and 6 would still be good, as they are in the same spot oin both firing orders. but like i said this isnt my first rodeo.

what i think happened:
somehow the lifters lost prime. and when i turned the motor over by hand the valve pushed the lifters down and they didnt come back up because they didnt have enough oil in them. I cant really explain it , but this seems logical. also when i had the thread sealant problem maybe the water damaged the lifters? and since i dont drive the car much maybe this is why it took so long? also because i was unsure at the time of repair i used a cheap oil. thatoil is still in it, and i have been revving up to 6300-6500 recently. also these are still the stock lifters. they only parts stock in my whole topend.
if this is the problem can i just use a drill with an old dizzy and prime the motor again after i put good oil it? if i did this i would keep the rockers like they are at the moment and see if they are pumping up tight.

now keep in mind even though they were all loose, i dont think they were all making noises.

any other thought or opinions?

in my next post i will add all the info of my motor. i will also add the instructions i sed. and instructions that a very good source from another forum told me was better.

p.s. sorry for the very very long story book. but i figured the more information the better chance anyone will have at helping me.
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:31 PM   #2
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setup:

trickflow 170 head with 61cc combution chamber

B303 cam

scorpion 1.72 stud mount roller rockers

trickflow 6.75 chromoly pushrods (recomended and verified)
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:39 PM   #3
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Installation instructions I used and my gear. And the last pic is the recomemended instructions from a trusted source.

HELP please.
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:03 PM   #4
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I would've thought you'd have gotten somewhere with this by now even in da old what it takes thread..I really have no more opinions ..hope ya get some good info soon!
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:04 PM   #5
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I would've thought you'd have gotten somewhere with this by now even in da old what it takes thread..I really have no more opinions ..hope ya get some good info soon!
me to. i didnt have time to mess with it yet. but if i dont get any good answers i will just go with my gut.
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:45 PM   #6
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It sounds like the lifters are bleeding off.If they are old and worn internally they can do that which makes trying to properly adjust them a PITA and hazardous if you happen to get them to tight. It is possible that your water leak did them in if water got into the lifters.


When adjusting the lifters the most important thing to remember is to make sure you are on the base circle of the camshaft and both valves are fully closed on the cylinder you are working on. Following the firing order is an easy way to do it in a sequence and keeps you from having to rotate the engine more often. Just check each time and make sure you are on TDC and always rotate the engine in the direction it operates, never backwards.
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamstang
Installation instructions I used and my gear. And the last pic is the recomemended instructions from a trusted source.

HELP please.
I adjusted my valves the same way as the last pic u posted. The lifters are the only thing stock on the top end of mine. Im fixing to adjust mine again tom. Im wondering if its just the lifters are just to weak to hold up with the new valve train. I believe a weak lifter will leak down and it could possibly be the case. Just a thought. Maybe we can figure this out to solve the problem. If i come up with something i will let u know.
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:07 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan Horse
It sounds like the lifters are bleeding off.If they are old and worn internally they can do that which makes trying to properly adjust them a PITA and hazardous if you happen to get them to tight. It is possible that your water leak did them in if water got into the lifters.

When adjusting the lifters the most important thing to remember is to make sure you are on the base circle of the camshaft and both valves are fully closed on the cylinder you are working on. Following the firing order is an easy way to do it in a sequence and keeps you from having to rotate the engine more often. Just check each time and make sure you are on TDC and always rotate the engine in the direction it operates, never backwards.
Thanx buddy. Glad to see ya back on.
I know the lifters need to be Down. That's how I did it. that's the thing that bothers me, is its hard to wrap my head around the fact that all the lifters.
Should I put new oil in it before I try redoing this? And also should prime the engine with my old dizzy before trying?
If they are leaking down slowly , will this affect my performance? Cause if so I'm gonna cancel track plans and hybernate for the winter.
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:09 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Finchms

I adjusted my valves the same way as the last pic u posted. The lifters are the only thing stock on the top end of mine. Im fixing to adjust mine again tom. Im wondering if its just the lifters are just to weak to hold up with the new valve train. I believe a weak lifter will leak down and it could possibly be the case. Just a thought. Maybe we can figure this out to solve the problem. If i come up with something i will let u know.
Hopefully we can figure it out. I may try again today.
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:05 PM   #10
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Thanx buddy. Glad to see ya back on.
I know the lifters need to be Down. That's how I did it. that's the thing that bothers me, is its hard to wrap my head around the fact that all the lifters.
Should I put new oil in it before I try redoing this? And also should prime the engine with my old dizzy before trying?
If they are leaking down slowly , will this affect my performance? Cause if so I'm gonna cancel track plans and hibernate for the winter.
I figured you probably knew everything I posted, but I also figured that the info might benefit someone else who happens to read the thread, so I went ahead and put it up.


If your oil is black and dirty it might be a good idea to change it out and see if it makes a difference, but it probably will not. Priming the system before each adjustment or two may tell you if they are leaking down and it should ensure they are properly set. When you have ran through them all, maybe prime it again then wait a while and see if they loosen up. That should tell you for sure if they are bleeding off. If they are it will definitely affect your performance because they won't fully open the valves.
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:52 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

I figured you probably knew everything I posted, but I also figured that the info might benefit someone else who happens to read the thread, so I went ahead and put it up.

If your oil is black and dirty it might be a good idea to change it out and see if it makes a difference, but it probably will not. Priming the system before each adjustment or two may tell you if they are leaking down and it should ensure they are properly set. When you have ran through them all, maybe prime it again then wait a while and see if they loosen up. That should tell you for sure if they are bleeding off. If they are it will definitely affect your performance because they won't fully open the valves.
gotcha. my oil still looks new. i was just worried because it is super cheap oil and is the oil i put in after the head leak problem.

as soon as i get under the hood again i will let everyone know what i found.
thanx
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:51 PM   #12
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Any news? Does Finchms have a point in that they are too weak? I didn't see whether you had stock lifters.

Also, now that they seemed to have lost oil, will you have to take them out and soak them again? I'm curious, cause I didn't realize they had to be primed until when you guys were working with Jay and his startup. At least I think that's where I heard about it.
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:20 AM   #13
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Any news? Does Finchms have a point in that they are too weak? I didn't see whether you had stock lifters.

Also, now that they seemed to have lost oil, will you have to take them out and soak them again? I'm curious, cause I didn't realize they had to be primed until when you guys were working with Jay and his startup. At least I think that's where I heard about it.
Not yet buddy. As soon as I get a chance I will let everyone know. I don't have high hopes because I am sure I did the procedure correctly.
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:29 PM   #14
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Well i redone the adjustment and apparently i didn't have them adjusted quite right from the get go. I have run bout 60 miles today n its running fine and
no noise.
Good luck d.s., maybe yours will be as simple.
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:08 PM   #15
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Well i redone the adjustment and apparently i didn't have them adjusted quite right from the get go. I have run bout 60 miles today n its running fine and
no noise.
Good luck d.s., maybe yours will be as simple.
Thanx. Hopefully it will, but I adjusted them the same as I did last 2 times. And they ran great for a while. But we will see.
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:33 PM   #16
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im pretty sure lifters are shot.

i ran the drill on the oil pump for a whole battery life. oil was coming out of the pushrods real good. then i set number 1. it was nice and tight. then i let it sit for only 10 minutes and i didnt even move anything and it was loose again.
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:04 PM   #17
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im pretty sure lifters are shot.

i ran the drill on the oil pump for a whole battery life. oil was coming out of the pushrods real good. then i set number 1. it was nice and tight. then i let it sit for only 10 minutes and i didnt even move anything and it was loose again.
Sorry bro! That sucks. I was hoping you would get to the track once this year like you wanted.
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:05 PM   #18
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Sorry bro! That sucks. I was hoping you would get to the track once this year like you wanted.
oh well. did i ever tell you me and murphy were really close? its a love hate relationship.
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:07 PM   #19
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im pretty sure lifters are shot.

i ran the drill on the oil pump for a whole battery life. oil was coming out of the pushrods real good. then i set number 1. it was nice and tight. then i let it sit for only 10 minutes and i didnt even move anything and it was loose again.
DAMN!...welp..upgrades!!
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:13 PM   #20
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DAMN!...welp..upgrades!!
yuppers. at leat lifters dont cost to much. trickflow has some for around 120$
the custom ground cam, i really want but finances will make that decision,
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:19 PM   #21
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yuppers. at leat lifters dont cost to much. trickflow has some for around 120$
the custom ground cam, i really want but finances will make that decision,
Yeah finances are a B!TCH!!!
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:17 PM   #22
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I had a dodge that did that. Found out the lifter collapsed no reason it just did. Replaced it and it ran fine. My gt will knock if it sits for more than 2 weeks let it idle and it goes away after a minute or 2.
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:32 PM   #23
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I had a dodge that did that. Found out the lifter collapsed no reason it just did. Replaced it and it ran fine. My gt will knock if it sits for more than 2 weeks let it idle and it goes away after a minute or 2.
That's what we were thinkin. The only weird thing was that all the lifters did this so we were kinda stumped for a bit.
Now it makes sense though being stock lifters. They just had enough I guess.
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:46 PM   #24
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Question are you using Rhodes style lifters? I've had bad luck with them. They work great but you have to set the lash perfect or they will lock up. Especially in a v8 with more than a performance cam.
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:48 AM   #25
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Thanx. Hopefully it will, but I adjusted them the same as I did last 2 times. And they ran great for a while. But we will see.
That sucks man. Hope all works out and even that custom ground cam! Cool! Good luck!
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