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Old 11-10-2012, 10:39 AM   #1
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Carb vs efi

I am in the middle of building a stock bottom end mustang but doing a pretty decent heads can intake I am considering going carb for simplicity and bc it's not my daily doing track heat heads anderson n51 cam and a decent intake people are telling me I wouldn't make any power thoughts
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:38 PM   #2
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There is some good carb vs efi information/comparisons in the stickies.
IMO I wouldnt convert unless you already have some of the required parts.

The tuning and maintenance will be much easier will be less of a headach on efi than a carb. Power wise would be similar all depending on setup.

To convert, a few things you will need:

- A fuel pump or way of SAFELY regulating it down. Mine currently is regulated down. it does work good without any issues. But that maybe because og doesn't get a lot of miles on it.

- a fuel pump regulator.

- a fuel pump relay. I used the factory relay and took the signal wire that usually tells the relay to kick on and put it straight to ground. This makes it kick on when the key is forward.

- this isn't necessary but I installed a kill switch because of the previous statement.

-You will also need a distributor because the stock one will not advance anymore. You can use a vacuum or centrifugal advance type.

- then the obvious. Carb and intake.

I maybe missing some things. But if your not worried about tuning and maintenance I would weigh the prices of the above mentioned over: injectors, throttle body, and whatever else would need purchased for supporting mods.

Also a wideband isn't necessary but will help tuning. I thought my car was tuned perfect. It ran great, with perfect throttle response. Until I installed the wideband. I have since changed the jets 4 sizes and maybe need just a few more. But I just haven't for that far because I recently found out my lifters where shot.

Hope this helps.
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:45 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by 04machazblue View Post
I am in the middle of building a stock bottom end mustang but doing a pretty decent heads can intake I am considering going carb for simplicity and bc it's not my daily doing track heat heads anderson n51 cam and a decent intake people are telling me I wouldn't make any power thoughts
You can actually make a little bit more power on a strip car with a carb.
The downside is that you will lose the fine tuning that the EFI provides along with some reduced gas mileage and easy idling capabilities in cold weather. IMO these cars are getting old enough that I also think it is beginning to affect their resale value.


Having grown up with, tinkering and tuning on carbs, I won't ever go back myself.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:18 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamstang
There is some good carb vs efi information/comparisons in the stickies.
IMO I wouldnt convert unless you already have some of the required parts.

The tuning and maintenance will be much easier will be less of a headach on efi than a carb. Power wise would be similar all depending on setup.

To convert, a few things you will need:

- A fuel pump or way of SAFELY regulating it down. Mine currently is regulated down. it does work good without any issues. But that maybe because og doesn't get a lot of miles on it.

- a fuel pump regulator.

- a fuel pump relay. I used the factory relay and took the signal wire that usually tells the relay to kick on and put it straight to ground. This makes it kick on when the key is forward.

- this isn't necessary but I installed a kill switch because of the previous statement.

-You will also need a distributor because the stock one will not advance anymore. You can use a vacuum or centrifugal advance type.

- then the obvious. Carb and intake.

I maybe missing some things. But if your not worried about tuning and maintenance I would weigh the prices of the above mentioned over: injectors, throttle body, and whatever else would need purchased for supporting mods.

Also a wideband isn't necessary but will help tuning. I thought my car was tuned perfect. It ran great, with perfect throttle response. Until I installed the wideband. I have since changed the jets 4 sizes and maybe need just a few more. But I just haven't for that far because I recently found out my lifters where shot.

Hope this helps.
I am going to be using a regulator to regulate it down Mallory brand what are the wires I splice to for the fuel pump like you mentioned above, and if I use a regulator I can use existing fuel lines if so what connectors do I get to hook up fuel lines feed and return
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Gt40x heads,e 303 cam, Ford racing 1.6 roller rockers, cobra upper and lower intake, ram air intake, c&l bigger maf, 30lb injectors, Bbk fuel Pressure regulator, double roller timing chain,Bbk shorty headers & h-pipe,flowmasters cat back,chipped,t-5 swap king cobra clutch, 4.10 gears.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:27 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by 04machazblue

I am going to be using a regulator to regulate it down Mallory brand what are the wires I splice to for the fuel pump like you mentioned above, and if I use a regulator I can use existing fuel lines if so what connectors do I get to hook up fuel lines feed and return
The tan/light green wire on the relay under the seat. What I did was snip it and ground it to the seat bolt. Also like I mentioned you may want to put a kill switch on that wire so if you need to trouble shoot something with the key on down the road you can turn the fuel pump off.

As for the fuel line. What I did was use the factory chrome lines and just hose clamp a rubber fuel line to. Now the chrome line may not grip the best so what else I did was use a flaring tool and flare the end of the chrome line. This allows the line to not be able to slide of once tightened.

If you need a pic of my lines let me know and later I can snap one. But what I described is basically all I did.
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Old 11-11-2012, 03:08 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by dreamstang

The tan/light green wire on the relay under the seat. What I did was snip it and ground it to the seat bolt. Also like I mentioned you may want to put a kill switch on that wire so if you need to trouble shoot something with the key on down the road you can turn the fuel pump off.

As for the fuel line. What I did was use the factory chrome lines and just hose clamp a rubber fuel line to. Now the chrome line may not grip the best so what else I did was use a flaring tool and flare the end of the chrome line. This allows the line to not be able to slide of once tightened.

If you need a pic of my lines let me know and later I can snap one. But what I described is basically all I did.
Okay kool yes pictures are good much more visual learner and compression fitting be okay
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Old 11-11-2012, 05:50 PM   #7
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Not the best pics but the one pic is of my Holley regulator. It comes in a combo pack with the Holley blue fuel pump. And I got this duel feed line from autozone for like 15$. Then I used a hose barb fitting in the end of the line and on the regulator.
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Old 11-11-2012, 05:54 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by dreamstang
Not the best pics but the one pic is of my Holley regulator. It comes in a combo pack with the Holley blue fuel pump. And I got this duel feed line from autozone for like 15$. Then I used a hose barb fitting in the end of the line and on the regulator.
Did you use the holy pump or keep ur factory fuel pump
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Old 11-11-2012, 05:56 PM   #9
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Did you use the holy pump or keep ur factory fuel pump
for now im still using the factory pump. but i will install the holley blue when the stocker fails from being reg'ed down so much, if it does.
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:44 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by dreamstang

for now im still using the factory pump. but i will install the holley blue when the stocker fails from being reg'ed down so much, if it does.
Nice so all I have to do is ground that wire and get the regulator and of course the intake and carb seems simple then I can rip out my old EEC wires
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:52 PM   #11
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Nice so all I have to do is ground that wire and get the regulator and of course the intake and carb seems simple then I can rip out my old EEC wires
uhh pretty much. besides you also need a either vacuum advance or centrifigul advance distributor. other wise your distributor wont advance.
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:55 PM   #12
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the reason you need to ground that wire is because when u toss the tfi from the distributor the relay wont know to kick on anymore.

btw i didnt do the whole conversion on my. i just de-hillbilled it. it was half *** done. so i figure out most of what i have been giving you. but its possible i am missing something.
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:50 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by dreamstang
the reason you need to ground that wire is because when u toss the tfi from the distributor the relay wont know to kick on anymore.

btw i didnt do the whole conversion on my. i just de-hillbilled it. it was half *** done. so i figure out most of what i have been giving you. but its possible i am missing something.
Yea I forgot to add distributor prolly get one from an 85 and I have a friend who builds cars who can help if I stumped he is helping me redo my shortblock
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Gt40x heads,e 303 cam, Ford racing 1.6 roller rockers, cobra upper and lower intake, ram air intake, c&l bigger maf, 30lb injectors, Bbk fuel Pressure regulator, double roller timing chain,Bbk shorty headers & h-pipe,flowmasters cat back,chipped,t-5 swap king cobra clutch, 4.10 gears.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:30 PM   #14
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You can actually make a little bit more power on a strip car with a carb.
The downside is that you will lose the fine tuning that the EFI provides along with some reduced gas mileage and easy idling capabilities in cold weather. IMO these cars are getting old enough that I also think it is beginning to affect their resale value.


Having grown up with, tinkering and tuning on carbs, I won't ever go back myself.
Never never,,i agree,,Ill be glad when all the small engines are FI,,lol..I rather deal with sensors and programs,,before going back to carbs
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:24 AM   #15
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Plus the old EEC IV is sooo simple. No need to ditch it.... I alway shake my head when I see people/ads on CL. And ask why. "Carb is easier", um, ok... Plus intakes and all are a dime a dozen anymore for them. I was so blown away when I got my 10' GT at the price of S197 stuff compared the Fox stuff (even back in the day Fox was relatively cheap).
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Old 11-12-2012, 10:11 AM   #16
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Plus the old EEC IV is sooo simple. No need to ditch it.... I alway shake my head when I see people/ads on CL. And ask why. "Carb is easier", um, ok... Plus intakes and all are a dime a dozen anymore for them. I was so blown away when I got my 10' GT at the price of S197 stuff compared the Fox stuff (even back in the day Fox was relatively cheap).
The car isn't going to be a daily at all I drive my truck everyday this is going to be my street/strip machine and its going to be a stock bottom end 302 with a good h/c/I set up and maybe a sneaky Pete shot
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:40 PM   #17
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Never never,,i agree,,Ill be glad when all the small engines are FI,,lol..I rather deal with sensors and programs,,before going back to carbs
Yes, I all to well remember tuning one one day then a few days later the temp and humidity changes and the customer is back saying, "My car just isn't running right again."

Trying to find the "sweet" spot where they will perform acceptably all the time is/was a chore and sometimes darn nigh impossible. I wish we had, had the wide band O2's and meters back then, they make it much easier to develop a profile over various weather conditions and would have made tuning much easier. Even so, I now much prefer letting the EECIV take care of all that.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:43 PM   #18
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The car isn't going to be a daily at all I drive my truck everyday this is going to be my street/strip machine and its going to be a stock bottom end 302 with a good h/c/I set up and maybe a sneaky Pete shot
Just so you know and you probably already do, those "Sneaky Pete's" have tiny little bottles, so pay very close attention to bottle pressure and tune, so you don't get an intake/hood destroying backfire.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:55 PM   #19
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Just so you know and you probably already do, those "Sneaky Pete's" have tiny little bottles, so pay very close attention to bottle pressure and tune, so you don't get an intake/hood destroying backfire.
Having trouble finding what wires I need to keep
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:56 PM   #20
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Having trouble finding what wires I need to keep
I'd keep all of them in case you or the next owner wants to put it back to EFI, harnesses are very expensive. Your ignition/starter wires will have to stay as will all of the sensors and dash wires.


You need to find the EEC Pinout and see what you may or may not need. It and other useful diagrams can be found in the Useful Info thread in the Very Useful or Old Fuel Injection links.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:29 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

I'd keep all of them in case you or the next owner wants to put it back to EFI, harnesses are very expensive. Your ignition/starter wires will have to stay as will all of the sensors and dash wires.

You need to find the EEC Pinout and see what you may or may not need. It and other useful diagrams can be found in the Useful Info thread in the Very Useful or Old Fuel Injection links.
I am talking about the wiring what gets grounded? And what wires get power and were to splice them
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:47 AM   #22
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I am talking about the wiring what gets grounded? And what wires get power and were to splice them
Sorry, I don't have a clue there.
Look through the Useful Info thread and see if I have any links there to the conversion.
If not I will try to help you find something.
I have some other things to deal with right now, but I will be back tomorrow and see what you've discovered or not.
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:26 AM   #23
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Yes, I all to well remember tuning one one day then a few days later the temp and humidity changes and the customer is back saying, "My car just isn't running right again."

Trying to find the "sweet" spot where they will perform acceptably all the time is/was a chore and sometimes darn nigh impossible. I wish we had, had the wide band O2's and meters back then, they make it much easier to develop a profile over various weather conditions and would have made tuning much easier. Even so, I now much prefer letting the EECIV take care of all that.
I think the worst carb system,,was that popular toyota engine in the 80s with thousands of vacuum lines with heat valve and check valves everywhere and some electronics for idleing,,Man I had to swap a engine in one,,it took me half the day to mark the lines,,i think it was the 22r or something like that..
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:42 AM   #24
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I think the worst carb system,,was that popular toyota engine in the 80s with thousands of vacuum lines with heat valve and check valves everywhere and some electronics for idleing,,Man I had to swap a engine in one,,it took me half the day to mark the lines,,i think it was the 22r or something like that..
Ever seen the older 80s-90s jeeps that were still carb'd? Lol

I prefer EFI over carb any day I the week. Buddy of mine converted a 4 cyl notch to a carb'd 5.0 and redid the whole car paint and all. He said he was thinkin about selling it and said probably 5k, I said man i don't kow if you'll get that, maybe to the right person. He aaid so your saying you wouldn't buy it for 5k? I said honestly no, only because its carb'd and I want nothing to do with a carb'd vehicle and a lot of people are like that nowadays, they prefer EFI over carb.
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:41 AM   #25
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Ever seen the older 80s-90s jeeps that were still carb'd? Lol

I prefer EFI over carb any day I the week. Buddy of mine converted a 4 cyl notch to a carb'd 5.0 and redid the whole car paint and all. He said he was thinkin about selling it and said probably 5k, I said man i don't kow if you'll get that, maybe to the right person. He aaid so your saying you wouldn't buy it for 5k? I said honestly no, only because its carb'd and I want nothing to do with a carb'd vehicle and a lot of people are like that nowadays, they prefer EFI over carb.
Well I am going carb bc I have friend who can build motors, he suggested it and said he will get it running good after its all finished, I don't plan on getting rid of the car it's the perfect fox I like hatches and it's white and black interior
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:47 AM   #26
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I do believe that efi is better. It is way more advanced and takes care of af adjustments on its own.

But I don't care what anyone says I love my carb. And NO way would I convert back. It's not my dd. So what if I have adjust my carb frequently. That's why I have a wideband. I have the proper setutp to tune it properly. It takes maybe 5 minutes to change a jet, maybe 2-3 minutes to set timing, and maybe 2 minutes to make any fuel pressure adjustments. It also gives me a sense of being one with the car.

But the best thing I like about my carb is that it just looks sexier. The engine bay is way cleaner without harnesses and vacuum lines running every where. And the actual carb gives it that old school muscle look I have wet dreams about. The only thing my engine compartment is missing to make that dream orgasmic is a 6:71.
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:52 AM   #27
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It's really 6 on way, half a dozen the other for all the things already mentioned.. I'll just add injected engines live longer and take on less wear... Which to me indicates that they are more efficient which also equals more power.
I believe you'll be happy either way, just throwing out some info for ya.. Btw my 87 was carbed and had plenty of power..
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Old 11-13-2012, 07:50 AM   #28
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Well last night I got the EEC out of the car and like people said that wife is heavy lol, so to two connectors next to the brake booster one gray an black both 8 pin connectors. My question is now that I am up to this what gets wired to what,
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Old 11-13-2012, 07:39 PM   #29
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I do believe that efi is better. It is way more advanced and takes care of af adjustments on its own.

But I don't care what anyone says I love my carb. And NO way would I convert back. It's not my dd. So what if I have adjust my carb frequently. That's why I have a wideband. I have the proper setutp to tune it properly. It takes maybe 5 minutes to change a jet, maybe 2-3 minutes to set timing, and maybe 2 minutes to make any fuel pressure adjustments. It also gives me a sense of being one with the car.

But the best thing I like about my carb is that it just looks sexier. The engine bay is way cleaner without harnesses and vacuum lines running every where. And the actual carb gives it that old school muscle look I have wet dreams about. The only thing my engine compartment is missing to make that dream orgasmic is a 6:71.
I think a fuel injected engine with a supercharger and tucked in nicely under the hood ,,without a large doghouse on the outside of the hood looks great..Plus you can have 600 Hp and still drive everyday to work and get 20 miles to the gallon..

---------- Post added at 08:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:35 PM ----------

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I think a fuel injected engine with a supercharger and tucked in nicely under the hood ,,without a large doghouse on the outside of the hood looks great..Plus you can have 600 Hp and still drive everyday to work and get 20 miles to the gallon..
You can even install cams to make it sound like the old cars..Carbs might make better track cars,, but fast street machine i take fuel injection anytime
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:52 PM   #30
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I do believe that efi is better. It is way more advanced and takes care of af adjustments on its own.

But I don't care what anyone says I love my carb. And NO way would I convert back. It's not my dd. So what if I have adjust my carb frequently. That's why I have a wideband. I have the proper setutp to tune it properly. It takes maybe 5 minutes to change a jet, maybe 2-3 minutes to set timing, and maybe 2 minutes to make any fuel pressure adjustments. It also gives me a sense of being one with the car.

But the best thing I like about my carb is that it just looks sexier. The engine bay is way cleaner without harnesses and vacuum lines running every where. And the actual carb gives it that old school muscle look I have wet dreams about. The only thing my engine compartment is missing to make that dream orgasmic is a 6:71.
Oh I see how it is, our EFI engines look like 90 year old grannies with varicose veins eh?
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:45 AM   #31
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Oh I see how it is, our EFI engines look like 90 year old grannies with varicose veins eh?
Lol...exactly!
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:50 AM   #32
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Thanks for that analogy and image in my mind bright and early in the morning lol
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:54 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by dreamstang

Lol...exactly!
I think I know why I was confused dreamstang my fuel pump relay is located on the passenger fender 92 it's different
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:02 AM   #34
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Ahh ok. You still are gonna have to locate the signal wire that kicks the fuel pump relay on. It may still be the same color as I mentioned?
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:58 AM   #35
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Ahh ok. You still are gonna have to locate the signal wire that kicks the fuel pump relay on. It may still be the same color as I mentioned?
Okay so here's the thing I found which wire goes to the fuel Pump, it's dark green yellow line through it . Located on the passenger side kick (green rectangular 8 pin plug) panel were the EEC is. Now that dark green/yell wire goes to the relay on the strut tower. Also there are 3 other wires that come out of it a Blue/oranges striped wire, light pink/ black wire, and a red wire. Now I Am lost as to we're to go from here, thanks for your patients.

The pink/black wires goes from the relay to the through the harness to the starter selonid that has a yellow wire that is connect runs to the EEC
The red wire look like it goes to a little fuse thing long black cylinder shape
Then the blue/ orange wire goes into the harness?
I know that's a lot sorry fellas
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