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Old 11-15-2012, 06:15 PM   #1
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Tuning

I'm planning on picking up the 165cc AFR heads and am I wrong in thinking that I'll need a custom tune? And also will stock injectors and pump keep up with these heads?
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:03 PM   #2
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I'm planning on picking up the 165cc AFR heads and am I wrong in thinking that I'll need a custom tune? And also will stock injectors and pump keep up with these heads?
It's 50/50 , when I did my motor , HCI swap I had a custom tune done, at first I staid with my 24lb injectors , but I maxed out the cycle on them and had to go to 30lb injectors !
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:11 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by WhiteCobra94

It's 50/50 , when I did my motor , HCI swap I had a custom tune done, at first I staid with my 24lb injectors , but I maxed out the cycle on them and had to go to 30lb injectors !
What kind of power did you make on that HCI setup? And what heads, intake and cam did you use? I'm trying to preconfigure a setup I want to build soon. Trying to make 400-450hp which seems doable.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:22 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Ewokjax95

What kind of power did you make on that HCI setup? And what heads, intake and cam did you use? I'm trying to preconfigure a setup I want to build soon. Trying to make 400-450hp which seems doable.
My setup is 302 bored to a 308, Edelbrock Performer heads, edelbrock performer intake ported / polished , trickflow stage cam with 1.6 rockers and all supporting mods .

I dynoed at 310 rwhp

The motor is n/a setup

---------- Post added at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewokjax95

What kind of power did you make on that HCI setup? And what heads, intake and cam did you use? I'm trying to preconfigure a setup I want to build soon. Trying to make 400-450hp which seems doable.
If your looking for 400-450 rwhp go 331 or 347 stroker with good heads cam and intake,

My brothers 91lx dynoed at 424rwhp, and he has a forged 347 stroker shortblock, AFR 225 heads , Anderson Cam and HolleySystem Max II intake
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:25 PM   #5
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I'm planning on picking up the 165cc AFR heads and am I wrong in thinking that I'll need a custom tune? And also will stock injectors and pump keep up with these heads?
No you should not need a custom tune.
You may however need/want to upgrade your MAF, injectors & fuel pump to take advantage of the better air flow capabilities if you have the supporting intake manifold and exhaust mods.
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:51 AM   #6
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I would like to make that power without taking out the motor tho. I would of thought full bolt on and HCI would have made 350 to the wheels tho? And MAF, injectors, and pump would be the supporting mods I need I suppose. Turbo seems the way to go. Maybe HCI intake with boost brothers kit on low boost? At that point I definitely need a tune tho.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:14 PM   #7
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I would like to make that power without taking out the motor tho. I would of thought full bolt on and HCI would have made 350 to the wheels tho? And MAF, injectors, and pump would be the supporting mods I need I suppose. Turbo seems the way to go. Maybe HCI intake with boost brothers kit on low boost? At that point I definitely need a tune tho.
If you had gotten the Trick Flow HCI kit, it would make around 350 HP at the crank with supporting mods.
Trying to piece together an HCI kit just never works out as well as using the manufacturer specified pieces. Making 350 HP at the tires is going to be a bit harder to do. A turbocharger will do it easily to be sure, but you will need more supporting mods to support the turbo too and then tuning is critical. You don't even want to open it up even a little bit until it has been properly tuned, or you will break something.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:52 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Ewokjax95
I would like to make that power without taking out the motor tho. I would of thought full bolt on and HCI would have made 350 to the wheels tho? And MAF, injectors, and pump would be the supporting mods I need I suppose. Turbo seems the way to go. Maybe HCI intake with boost brothers kit on low boost? At that point I definitely need a tune tho.
Also the stock 5.0 only makes 165-180rwhp
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:33 PM   #9
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Well I guess I'll get to HCI status and see what happens. If that doesn't satisfy me ill think about turbo. How much does HCI from trick flow cost?
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:59 PM   #10
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$2600
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:56 AM   #11
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I see the twisted wedge top end kit on their website but no price. Anyone know where to buy it? Summit maybe?
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:58 AM   #12
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Latemodel Restoration Supply is where I'm gonna pick mine up at.
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:52 AM   #13
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Summit is my fav place to buy that kinda stuff.
After you acquire a 50 post count you can receive a 6% discount from American muscle to.
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:58 AM   #14
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Did not know about the discount. Cool! I use Resto for the simple fact that I only live like 30 miles from there. No waiting on the mail man like a little kid!
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:08 AM   #15
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Did not know about the discount. Cool! I use Resto for the simple fact that I only live like 30 miles from there. No waiting on the mail man like a little kid!
I like lrs to.
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:32 PM   #16
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Found it on Summit for the 2600 bucks you said. Looks like that's the next performance addition to the motor for me. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:36 PM   #17
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I don't have the full tfs top end kit. But I do have the heads. And let me tell you it felt like a whole new motor when I added them beasts! I think you will be happy.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:12 AM   #18
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That's what I keep hearing. There's too much gain from a good set of heads for me not to get them and the fact that it comes with upper and lower intake and cam to match is just awesome!! After I get this suspension stuff done, that top end kit is goin in for sure!!
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:16 PM   #19
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The Trick Flow top end package is a good way to go for a solid/smooth overall power gain. Although, keep in mind that you will need a tune to maintain smooth drive-ability manners. Not to mention get the most out of the performance parts!

Shane
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:29 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by AMShaneLesky View Post
The Trick Flow top end package is a good way to go for a solid/smooth overall power gain. Although, keep in mind that you will need a tune to maintain smooth drive-ability manners. Not to mention get the most out of the performance parts!

Shane
Shane, I have a question for you; Do you really think he will need a tune?

I have a heavily modified engine in my 86 GT with the 89 MAF conversion and it has never needed a "tune" (meaning chip or tuner). It made 405 HP on an engine dyno and it runs perfectly with no outside/extra tuning.

Maybe the 94-95 ECUs need it, because I do know they are more sensitive to air flow changes?

I'm only asking to clear up some confusion on my part, as to what is really needed on the 94-95 models. Thanks
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:07 PM   #21
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Well I know when I put my motor and HCI in, I couldn't even drive the car 20ft, it would back fire, had 0 power when I gave it throttle and kept stalling out , so I had it towed to speed shop , runs like a beauty now!!
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:57 PM   #22
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Well I know when I put my motor and HCI in, I couldn't even drive the car 20ft, it would back fire, had 0 power when I gave it throttle and kept stalling out , so I had it towed to speed shop , runs like a beauty now!!
Yeah, experiences like yours makes me wonder about the 94-95 ECU.
I guess the older 89-93 ECU's are better at adapting to changes?
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:33 PM   #23
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Well I know when I put my motor and HCI in, I couldn't even drive the car 20ft, it would back fire, had 0 power when I gave it throttle and kept stalling out , so I had it towed to speed shop , runs like a beauty now!!
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Shane, I have a question for you; Do you really think he will need a tune?

I have a heavily modified engine in my 86 GT with the 89 MAF conversion and it has never needed a "tune" (meaning chip or tuner). It made 405 HP on an engine dyno and it runs perfectly with no outside/extra tuning.

Maybe the 94-95 ECUs need it, because I do know they are more sensitive to air flow changes?

I'm only asking to clear up some confusion on my part, as to what is really needed on the 94-95 models. Thanks
From my experience, I've found even the Fox bodies will benefit from a tune, especially with more an aggressive camshaft. That being said, Fox bodies can usually get away with more mild heads/cam top end, especially like a complete kit like the Trick Flow.

Now the 94-95 ECM's are much more sensitive to changes in calibrating increased air-flow. They typically need a tune even with a mild camshaft like the Stage 1 Trick Flow. I personally used to have a H/C/I '95 GT with a very mild camshaft and it ran horrible until I got a custom tune. Most of the issues weren't WOT, but drive-ability manners. The car would buck at low cruising rpm and stall at stop lights.

Hope this clears things up a little bit for you!

Shane
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:07 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by AMShaneLesky

From my experience, I've found even the Fox bodies will benefit from a tune, especially with more an aggressive camshaft. That being said, Fox bodies can usually get away with more mild heads/cam top end, especially like a complete kit like the Trick Flow.

Now the 94-95 ECM's are much more sensitive to changes in calibrating increased air-flow. They typically need a tune even with a mild camshaft like the Stage 1 Trick Flow. I personally used to have a H/C/I '95 GT with a very mild camshaft and it ran horrible until I got a custom tune. Most of the issues weren't WOT, but drive-ability manners. The car would buck at low cruising rpm and stall at stop lights.

Hope this clears things up a little bit for you!

Shane
That sounds about what I've heard on these 94-95 cars as well. If I'm willing to drop 2600$ on this setup, I guess I can spend some money on a tune. How much have custom tunes normally ran you guys?
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:27 PM   #25
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That sounds about what I've heard on these 94-95 cars as well. If I'm willing to drop 2600$ on this setup, I guess I can spend some money on a tune. How much have custom tunes normally ran you guys?
My chip and tune was $600
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:40 PM   #26
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My chip and tune was $600
Dang!! That's more than I was expecting. Is that with dyno runs as well?
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Old 11-22-2012, 05:33 AM   #27
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Yes the SCT chip was $200, the tune, dyno runs and 2.5hrs of labor was $418
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Old 11-22-2012, 04:18 PM   #28
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Yes the SCT chip was $200, the tune, dyno runs and 2.5hrs of labor was $418
That's not too bad. The SCT chip you're talking about is the 4bank eliminator right? I'll be checking with a few of my local shops for prices on dyno sessions and tune soon tho.
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Old 11-22-2012, 04:20 PM   #29
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Ditto for me about $600 out the door. Also an sct chip.
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Old 11-22-2012, 09:23 PM   #30
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That's not too bad. The SCT chip you're talking about is the 4bank eliminator right? I'll be checking with a few of my local shops for prices on dyno sessions and tune soon tho.
Yes the SCT eliminator
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Old 11-23-2012, 03:21 PM   #31
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That's not too bad. The SCT chip you're talking about is the 4bank eliminator right? I'll be checking with a few of my local shops for prices on dyno sessions and tune soon tho.
The same goes for me too. I had this car before I worked with AM, so I went with the Eliminator chip and a Dyno tune from a local shop. It ran me $550, but that was a ways back when dyno prices were a hair cheaper, at least in my area.

Definitely go with the Eliminator chip though. It's the best most customizable chip for OBDI Mustangs IMO. Plus, it's always cool if you add nitrous to the car down the road, you can easily switch between your n/a or nitrous tune!

Shane
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Old 11-23-2012, 06:47 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by AMShaneLesky

The same goes for me too. I had this car before I worked with AM, so I went with the Eliminator chip and a Dyno tune from a local shop. It ran me $550, but that was a ways back when dyno prices were a hair cheaper, at least in my area.

Definitely go with the Eliminator chip though. It's the best most customizable chip for OBDI Mustangs IMO. Plus, it's always cool if you add nitrous to the car down the road, you can easily switch between your n/a or nitrous tune!

Shane
I may just pick up the SCT chip at AM before anything else. I've heard there's decent gains from it. It works with bolt ons doesn't it?
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:36 PM   #33
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I may just pick up the SCT chip at AM before anything else. I've heard there's decent gains from it. It works with bolt ons doesn't it?
Ewokjax95,

You're correct, we do tune for Bolt-on mods through out tuning Team, Bama Performance. However, once you go with some AFR heads and an aftermarket camshaft, you'll need a custom dyno tune. Bama Performance will only tune for bolt-on mods and small nitrous shots. They will actually also tune for the Ford Racing B303 & E303 camshaft, as well as GT40 heads, but those are special exceptions, since those tunes are much more easily repeatable.

Either way, you can't go wrong with getting the Eliminator chip, since you'll need it for any custom tuning as well!

Shane
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:46 AM   #34
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I too did a h/c/i combo and went with a custom dyno tuned chip to get it to stay a "daily driver" in the summer. The "engine people" around my area and the company "tech lines" lol, all told me it wouldnt run after all the stuff was installed. I also have all the supporting mods like bigger mass air, bigger throttlebody, bigger injectors etc. etc. But the point was, I too spent $600 on the dyno tuned chip - which I believe is a sct.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:01 PM   #35
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Well I've decided the SCT 4bank eliminator chip is coming next before anything. It seems to be the perfect mod to help utilize the mods I already have. Does anyone know if I can order it from AM and get them to load custom tunes on it before it even ships to me? I'd prefer to do that so I don't have to ship it back the day I get it.
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