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Old 04-14-2013, 03:56 PM   #1
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Aftermarket heads

Heyy guys I want to get my gt40s reworked but I would also like to know what other aftermarket heads could I use far as PTV clearance and suggestions would help thanks??!!!
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:15 PM   #2
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Heyy guys I want to get my gt40s reworked but I would also like to know what other aftermarket heads could I use far as PTV clearance and suggestions would help thanks??!!!
Depends on how much you wanna spend. I just got my gt40s rebuilt with bigger springs, ported, polished, gasket matched, and a 5 angle valve job for about $325. Budget way to go for sure!!
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:29 PM   #3
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What's the name of the shop I'm goin to get them shop to your guys then
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:40 PM   #4
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What's the name of the shop I'm goin to get them shop to your guys then
Lol! I'm in Texas. Whole price for heads and port polish gasket match of a gt40 intake was $450.

---------- Post added at 09:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 PM ----------

Ledford's Performance Machine. Waco Texas.
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Old 04-15-2013, 12:45 AM   #5
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Ok thanks alot Imma try them n the morning
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Old 04-15-2013, 06:19 PM   #6
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Ok so the Trick Flow track heat 170 would b a good choice for a stock 302 with a f303cam and dual roller timing chain or the TF 190... I heard that thre smaller the better to
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Old 04-16-2013, 04:02 PM   #7
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There are 2 heads that I have found that are most powerful for use on a stock 302. You can use Foxlakeracings TF TW stage 1 ported heads. And the AFR 165ccs. Both supply about the same amount of air on the intake side. The difference is the TF heads have 65% exhuast output which is good for single profile camshafts and the better choice for boost applications (esspecially turbocharging) or all motor applications where drivability is important. The AFR 165 heads have a 80% exhuast output making them better for use with a dual profile cam that has more lift on the exhuast side of the camshaft which is best used for nitrous or maximizing all motor applications. Using one of these 2 heads in your HCI combo will allow you to grow to hit over 500RWHP with power adder without use of a stroker if you desire. Over 340RWHP all motor can be seen from either of these heads used on a 302 with proper cam and intake and a few supporting bolt ons to include exhuast without sacrificing drivability.

NOTE: The horsepower numbers I stated above are real numbers with you keeping your factory engine accesories like alternator, water pump, ac, power steering and even your smog pump. Sceptical? Go to www.foxlakeracing.com and check out their customer rides section.

NOTE: Only differences between Twisted Wedge and Track Heat heads are the TW heads have smog provisons and come with valve springs good up to .520 lift. The TH heads have no smog provisions and come with valve springs good for .600 lift. They are the exact same castings. The F303 cam has .512 lift on both sides which means the valve springs on the cheaper Twisted Wedge heads will work fine.

Note: AFR sells both smog leagle and non smog leagle 165cc heads.

Reminder: When buying a set of aftermarket heads make sure the heads will pass your states emissions tests before purchase if your going to use your car on the street.

Advise: Ronn501 getting the Twisted Wedge 170cc heads and matching Trick Flow Street Heat intake is what I recommend to maximize your power combo using the F303 cam which is a single profile cam. The Fox Lake Stage 1 porting package for the TW heads and SH lower intake is pricey but can give you a realistic 30-35hp to the wheels over what the out of the box versions can do. Also the stage one package from fox lake retains 100% of your drivability. However if a stroker is in your future plans then that will change my advise on heads entirely unless you care about drivability.

I personaly plan to use the TFS TW S1 heads from Fox Lake with a B303 cam or even a smaller custom grind. I am still deciding on intake choice however. I would like to use a Holley Systemax 2 intake if an intake spacer will lower the operational RPM range to retain driveability and maximize top end power. After I figure that out I will probly make my decision. I want my end combo to make 630+RWHP with 9 second E/T's while maintaining most drivability. I am using NMRA Real Street class as a template to base my next mustang off of and fully expect to reach my goals.
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:26 PM   #8
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Im running The Edelbrock Performer heads with the edelbrock performer intake ported and polished with trickflow stage 1 cam and 1.7 rockers , no issues with PVC and my car dynoed 125rwhp over stock numbers
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:17 PM   #9
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Ok so what I'm goin to do is run AFR 165heads f303cam Trick Flow Street Heat intake and ford racing roller timing chain... I should b ok now probably making around 410 ponys
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:21 PM   #10
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Afr = best head on the block lol
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"Racing is life ,anything before or after is just waiting "-the king of cool -Steve McQueen
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:44 PM   #11
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Ok so what I'm goin to do is run AFR 165heads f303cam Trick Flow Street Heat intake and ford racing roller timing chain... I should b ok now probably making around 410 ponys
On a stock 302 shortblock your looking 290-320rwph

---------- Post added at 08:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 PM ----------

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On a stock 302 shortblock your looking 290-320rwph
290-320rwhp*
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:13 PM   #12
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Does it mater if I have a cobra block
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:45 PM   #13
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Does it mater if I have a cobra block
No cobra block and gt blocks are the same, only differences are intake, heads and slightly bigger cam on the cobra, a stock 5.0 dynoes at 185rwhp on average.
TrickFlows topend kit for 360hp that's flywheel horsepower, if your looking for 400hp you'll need a HCI plus supercharger or HCI plus stroker
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:09 PM   #14
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Ok I'll prolly go forced induction also
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:37 AM   #15
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AFR 165cc heads on a stock 302 are 340+ RWHP capable with proper intake, cam, and exhuast. If 400RWHP is your goal a 302 can potentialy acheive thiese numbers without a stroker or power adder if your on a budget but your going to have to run a very high rpm with a not so street friendly cam.

Ron Robart, Fox Lake's owner, built a 1987 Mustang GT simply to show that with a little thought and some good parts you could build a 306 cubic inch naturally aspirtated, fuel injected motor that would make over 400 flywheel horsepower. This car ran 11.70's @ 119 mph and put over 380 horsepower to the rear tires without the aid of any power adders! Ron's GT features flat top pistons, Canfield Fox Lake ported heads, and an Edelbrock Victor 5.0 intake. This car was featured in the September 2000 issue of 5.0 Mustangs magazine. ~ Fox Lake Website

The canfeild heads are equals to the twisted wedges in my opinion. I would give fox lake a ring and see if they can doo a 400rwhp EFI combo on a stock 302. I bet they can if that article was done 13 years ago. Im sure in order to hit the mark you need a few of the lightest componets you can find for wheels, drilled axles, driveshafts, flywheel and even an electric water pump to maximize your power to the ground.
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:16 PM   #16
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Ok im going to the website now
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:23 PM   #17
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Also I forgot to mention the type of high RPM you will have to run to reach 400RWHP on a pushrod 302 will require constant adjusting of the rocker arms and the factory crank and pistons are not meant for that type of constant punishment and will be running on barrowed time. Long term the best route to make 400rwhp for your 302 is to use a stroker. If your the type that has the money and want a stroker and power adder a aftermarket block will be needed as the stock 302 block doesnt live very long at 500+rwhp levels. Usually if 500+ horsepower levels are your goal the budget way of acheiving these numbers reliably are engine swaping to a 351w. If 400rwhp is the end of your goals however a stroker and good HCI combo will get you up to 450RWHP.

I do have more to gab about though. I know that power is like a drug eventually you will want more. This also makes the TFS TW heads more desirable than the AFR's because they can always be sent back to Fox Lake for the next level of porting rather than having to buy yet again another set of heads to get to the next level of power. Even still the Stage1 FoxLake heads really outshine the afr's when you add boost on a stroker motor into the equasion. The AFR 165cc heads are great for a 302 but are smallish compaired to the Fox Lake S1 TW175cc heads. From 300-650boosted rwhp the Foxlake Stage 1 Ported TW heads fit the bill and are worth the coin as they can support up to 1400hp with further porting should you ever want to go there.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:44 PM   #18
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Thanks for the info but my 87 won't get driven every day for 450 hp to hurt it just want sum to play with lol but I think I'm going to get them AFR 160
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Old 04-18-2013, 08:01 PM   #19
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AFR's are the way to go if your maximizing a naturally aspirated motor or using nitrous due to their higher exhuast outputs compaired to others which means long tube headers really help the AFR heads shine. However if you ever reach for a large stroker like the 342/347 the AFR 185cc's are going to be the bread winner. I have spent years well over a decade playing the mustang building game. After having 6 mustangs Ive done alot of research on what power combos work. Lets face it were not talking Chebys here, Ford engines outperform Cheby motors but require experience on engine combinations to be better. As where with a LS1 you can any brand HCI and exhuast and through it all together and have 500+ RWHP building a Ford is more of a art form and very dominate when done right.
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:53 AM   #20
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Dude awesome advice, I would love to learn more on sbf engine building, any advice on where to learn>?
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:20 AM   #21
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I try to give as good as advice as I can when ever im helping someone. Best way I imagine to learn would be at a performance shop that installs aftermarket on mustangs every day. However if your like me thats not really an option.

Firstly I live in dallas so there are a few people running around with 8 second 1/4 mile street stangs and other makes as well. These type of people are usually very knowledgeable because chances are they picked out their parts themselves and are seasoned racers. I have spent alot of time here in dallas at a drive in hambuger joint called kellers, on a good summer saturday night its not uncommon to see a 100 cars with power ranges from 500-1000+ and like anyplace it has its regular customers but alot of the people there travel from ft. worth / houston to bet thousands of dollars on having a real good ol fashioned grudge match race. The only problem with learning this way is that to get fully involved means doing illeagle street racing and alot of the guys walking around are talking out their *** because they think they know whats what but are too ignorent to realize they dont. Mostly the tricks I learned from these people is that v8 cars hook up better on the STREET with an automatic than a manual by the time you hit 600+hp and the car has a easier time gripping the pavement with an automatic due to its long first gear.

Nextly SBF engine building as I said in my last post is an art form and sometimes a curse because even last night I spent an hour awake in bed before falling asleep thinking about a turbo 5.0 buildup. As an art form there are only a few HCI combinations out there that maximize power when matched with a stroker, centri charger, roots charger (yuck), turbo, nitrous. The biggest factor in wether or not a certain power combination maximizes power is the heads.

Third, as you read continuous articles on power combinations, my magazine collection dates back to 97, youll start to notice a pattern in certain parts being used. For instance Ive never seen anything out perform a Accufab TB on a dyno, NEVER. JLT and C&L CAI's cant be beat, which one is best is determined by the weather but most the time JLT is king. For pushrod ford v8's exhuast nothing beats KOOK's custom headers matched with dynomax mufflers for maximum power output on non turbo cars. For modular v8 fords bassani long tubes are king as long as theres no turbo. I have reached these conclusions not from one dyno test ive seen but multiple upon multiple. And whats more important when making a parts selection is, if the professinal racers dont do it then you dont need to do it, we as regular people without custom car shops are not going to reinvent the wheel. You will see some profesional racers who are minimalists and might use a holley TB over a Accufab peice but the Accufab will make more power. So when it comes to power combinations use one that has already been proven mutiple times just make sure you also use parts like the Accufab reguardless of what they were using to ensure you reach maximum power output. Alot of magazine article cominations, not all, but alot have so many tricks done to their cars for power its hard to know where to start. The more articles you read the more you will realize when a fish is out of water and the person that built the car wasnt using all of the shelf parts like we simpletons should. Also you should realize to acheive a 600+rwhp automatic car you would need a 750-800hp flywheel hp engine. Automatic tranny cars drain about 15%-20% engine power and manual cars drian about 12%-15%. Also when looking at numbers from an engine dyno you need to realize they didnt have full engine acesories like A/C and were probly using an electric water pump which means by the time you put that engine in a car with A/C and what not it will make alot less power.

Fourth, when building a specific engine you have to realize it is apart of a system called a car and when matched together they are either in harmony or they arnt. Many contributing factors come into play when building an engine but one that many dont seem to pay much attention to is that the weight of the car the cars suspension type and traction abilities matched with desired gear plays a huge roll on the type of camshaft that should be used for that vehicle. Most focus on ok this cam will give me this much lift which means I can make this much horsepower and run this kind of gear but there is alot more to it than that. For instance edelbrock offers a 502? 503hp? 347 crate engine. This engine due to the high cam lift is not designed for mid weight cars like mustangs but rather for leight weight kit cobra's. Even though the engine is a 347 and should produce massive torque and be able to push a mustang it doesnt due to its radical intake manifold design matched with a rediculously huge cam. Well what does this mean? It means people should be paying more attention to their engines torque output! Dont forget about torque!!! I quote the late great Carrol Shelby, "horsepower is great but torque is what wins races." I beleave I knew what he meant.. Having the proper torque level matched with having your peek torque at the right rpm makes all the difference when you multiply it agains car weight, traction ability and gearing since gearing multiplys torque. In automatic applications the torque converter plays a role as well the most "effecient" place for a torque converters stall speed is 200 rpm bellow peek torque but some cams wont allow this because they require a higher level stall converter, which means I wouldnt use the cam reguardless of how much extra power it makes. With a manual build up changing clutchs changes your clamping rate which means your effective launch rpm changes from clutch to clutch.

I could go on for a lifetime which means im going to go ahead and say if you have any further specific questions ask and I will give you my best responces.

And after years of considering modular engine build ups which are cool, Ive done 3, I have determined windsor is better than modular all around.

Note: There is no such thing as a SB or BB ford. That is a chevy determination. I say this because it will help with future parts selection. Ford has engine "families" which are Windsor, Cleveland, Modular, FE, M series, and the list goes on. Parts manufactuers for ford performance parts will sometimes say SBF like AFR does and what that usually means is they make chevy parts too and just dont know any better but that doesnt mean they arnt the best at making that specific part.
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:27 PM   #22
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+1 diesel stang
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