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Old 04-21-2013, 09:05 PM   #1
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306-331-347-363

Besides cubes what's the ups and downs to these different strokers. Im trying to decide which short block to get. I was set on the dart 347 until i saw that dart also makes a 363 all are made out of the 302
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:27 AM   #2
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Longevity. Read around, most people say the 347 and 363 won't last as long, although you can still get 100k. I've also heard 331 is better for either tq or hp than the 347, realistically the only difference is going to be the walls will be thinner the bigger you go, which can cause cooling issues.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:41 AM   #3
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Besides cubes what's the ups and downs to these different strokers. Im trying to decide which short block to get. I was set on the dart 347 until i saw that dart also makes a 363 all are made out of the 302
I think I'm going 331.. For one I dig the 331 number and I heard its a good happy medium..

---------- Post added at 09:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 AM ----------

Or just drop in a 351 and get the best of both worlds
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:12 PM   #4
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Drop a 351 in with. 427 stroker kit

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Drop a 351 in with. 427 stroker kit
Lol just a thought !!
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:21 PM   #5
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I would but Im trying to use a lot of what i already have and if i did id have to get new intake and possible carb

---------- Post added at 07:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 PM ----------

Not to mention a ton of other stuff like headers and stuff
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:38 PM   #6
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wouldnt matter 331-347 after you machine the block for either and u break something... you cant repair it and make a 331 a 347 for example.

as far as wall thickness goes, both require a .030 overbore so the thickness stays the same?

Personally I dont see the reason or need to build a smaller/less powerful stroker motor with the 331/347 kits. You are just leaving more cubes, hp, tq, etc on the table that could be taken advantage of.

---------- Post added at 06:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:36 PM ----------

and a 306 is mearly a 302 with a new bore size of .030 over. so if you want a stockish rebuild to keep ur current crank and not require much machine work go for that.
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:40 PM   #7
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So you for the 363 or the 347
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:57 PM   #8
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So you for the 363 or the 347
347 is most common...
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:50 PM   #9
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If they are using an aftermarket stronger block, then the 347 is the way to go. They make big HP/tq numbers compared to the equally equipped 302. I have seen 306's lay down massive power with a power adder, but N/A 347 is the way to go IMO.
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:27 PM   #10
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Im looking at a dart block or a boss block

---------- Post added at 09:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:27 PM ----------

Heard the darts are the strongest
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Old 05-02-2013, 06:17 AM   #11
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Yeah, really I think any of the big name companies that sell the long block assemblies are good to buy from. You definitely want that stronger block since they have to notch it for clearance of the larger crank.
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Old 05-02-2013, 08:09 AM   #12
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oh i must of skipped that part... if its an aftermarket block capable of going to 363 then yes go for that. Like I mentioned before, go as big as you can. If you dont you are going to regret it and you might aswell since your not going to be using that block again any should something break.

Why not get the most out of the combo as you can.

Dion: yes a 306 can lay down massive power, but not like a stroker motor can.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:29 PM   #13
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oh i must of skipped that part... if its an aftermarket block capable of going to 363 then yes go for that. Like I mentioned before, go as big as you can. If you dont you are going to regret it and you might aswell since your not going to be using that block again any should something break.

Why not get the most out of the combo as you can.

Dion: yes a 306 can lay down massive power, but not like a stroker motor can.
Agreed! I've only seen one ( I'm sure there's more out there) built 306 put down over 900 HP to the wheels, and that was with lots of PSI through a f series procharger.

And there are many 10sec street cars out there with n/a 347's!
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Old 05-02-2013, 08:45 PM   #14
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My brothers 91 lx has a forged 347 kit , with AFR 225 heads and Holley system Max II with a huge cam and he is at 424 rwhp / 416 rwtq just to give you an idea!!
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Old 05-02-2013, 09:22 PM   #15
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Unless you need more than 700whp, why not go with a stock block 351 stroker? A mild NA 408 on pump gas will do 500/500 all day, be cheaper than the Dart based build and the torque you'll produce is just silly.

You should probably hit up FordStrokers.com 331-347-408-418-427 Custom Built Small Block Ford Engines and get in touch with the owner, Woody. He'll answer a lot of your questions and he's been doing this forever. One of the best rated shops out there.
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Old 05-02-2013, 09:36 PM   #16
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Im actually looking to get right at 600 hpr and looking for a good strong bottom end to hold the power with being able to remain very streetable id look into the 351 based blocks but id like to use most of what i already have
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Old 05-02-2013, 09:40 PM   #17
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What parts are you looking to reuse? 351w and 302 can share some parts.
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Old 05-02-2013, 09:51 PM   #18
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Headers heads and intake mostly if i go with 351 id have to get new headers intake oil pan bellhousing and that's just what Im thinking of off top my head
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:19 PM   #19
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Im actually looking to get right at 600 hpr and looking for a good strong bottom end to hold the power with being able to remain very streetable id look into the 351 based blocks but id like to use most of what i already have
If most of what you already have won't support 600hp on a 351 based stroker it won't on a 302 based stroker either. Not sure what exactly you already have but a 351 isn't really very much more money if any. Might even be less with not needing to drop $2k+ on the DART block. At the 600hp level there is 0 reason to not go with a 351.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:40 AM   #20
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If you do a 351w it shares the heads, upper intake, and I can't remember about the headers. You would just have to get the lower intake since its wider.

I understand about not buying things twice! I'm on a budget with my 86 so everything I do has to he thought out. If you want to stay 302 based, I would say 347 is the way to go.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:50 AM   #21
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I have long tube headers now would have to go with shortys on the 351 and didn't think about just being able to buy just the lower intake
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Old 05-03-2013, 11:47 AM   #22
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I have long tube headers now would have to go with shortys on the 351 and didn't think about just being able to buy just the lower intake
And your bell housing will bolt right up to the 351 as well. There isn't too much that won't bolt on from the 5.0.
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Old 05-03-2013, 01:32 PM   #23
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The low end power you'd gain from the 351 vs the 302 would be worth it.
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:06 PM   #24
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Well hell i might just go with the 460 and call it a day
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:03 PM   #25
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That's an option to!
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:21 PM   #26
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Lol yep but i think its out of the 347 and 427 leaning towards the 427 because i could get a regular short block for 3500 vs the dart or boss short block for 5500 to get same power without risk of blowing up lol
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Old 05-04-2013, 07:59 PM   #27
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408, 408, 408. There is a reason it is the most common 351 stroker build. Mainly it is the easiest one on the block/rotating assembly and you really aren't going to lose much if anything from -19 cubes. You can spin them a little higher too if you want because you don't have the same sidewall loading the 427 will. Either motor will be good, I really would give Woody a call if you are having a builder do it or even if you just want to get a block/rotating assy from him.

Oh, also, beware of some of the 351 blocks having cracks under the cam bearings. Fordstrokers checks all their blocks they use/send out for these cracks but if you don't pull the cam bearings and inspect them you'll never see it. Some of the engine builders think it is just from most of the 351s being in work trucks that got the crap beat out of them for years on end by contractors but nobody really knows. This is why I would probably buy a good inspected/bored/honed/prepped block from someone like Woody vs taking chances for a $300 yank out of a JY that might be bad and a $300 boat anchor.
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Old 05-04-2013, 08:16 PM   #28
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When i do buy which ever one i get it will be a short block from frpp or dart
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Old 05-04-2013, 08:42 PM   #29
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Quote:
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If you do a 351w it shares the heads, upper intake, and I can't remember about the headers. You would just have to get the lower intake since its wider.

I understand about not buying things twice! I'm on a budget with my 86 so everything I do has to he thought out. If you want to stay 302 based, I would say 347 is the way to go.

Yes the heads can be used on either 302/351 but depending on the 351 based motor with the heads you have the heads would be a restriction.

Ex: I have tfs heads on my 302 right now, if i was to build a 408 they wouldnt flow enough for the 408 but would still bolt on...
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:43 AM   #30
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alot of talk about this subject over the years and most people cant seem to agree.

BUT.. my opinion is that it all depends on what power your willing to spend
306 - just a 302 rebuilt 30 over.
331 - stock block stroker
347 - a better stock block stroker (more power for the same money)
363 - an expensive dart block stroker (there are better options if you go this route)

as far a longevity goes that has to do with your machinist.. honestly any modern day 331 is going to last just like a 347 or 363 it has EVERYthing to do with the builder and nothing to do with the kit, unless you manage to find a VERY old 347 kit.. I don't think anyone makes them anymore.

the main thing to rember with strokers is that you will need an aftermarket tune, no ifs ands and buts about it.

BTW I own a 331, wish it were a 347... way more power to have with the little extra stroke, the CI's mean almost nothing here.

OH and if you do get an aftermarket block and decide to stroke... stay away from the ford boss block.
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Old 05-07-2013, 07:38 AM   #31
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Thanks everyone for the info

---------- Post added at 07:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:36 AM ----------

Thanks stang but i knew the 306 was 30 over stock crank but thought both 331-347 where 30over with stroked crank and what's wrong with frpp boss block thought it was pretty much same as dart just ford version 4 bolt main
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:07 PM   #32
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If 600rwhp is really your goal a 302 sportman block will get you there and it weighs only 10lbs more than the stock block. The sportsman wont last forever at 600rwhp but is great for 500-550rwhp combinations. Dart/World 302 block is alot of money as a 351 swap possibly becomes a better financial option. A ford R302 block would give you cooling problems on the street. Ford F302 block like the sportman block wont hold 600rwhp.

For maximum longevity a 351w swap even if you have to use shorty headers to afford it is the best option. A 357cid based 351 with power adder is perfect for making the power levels you are looking for.

If it was my money however I would build a Dart based 302 and stroke it to 342/347 depending on ring size needed for what power adder type. This would give you the ability to grow well past the stock 351w blocks ability with use of a power adder.

FYI: Aluminum Dart blocks vintilate very easy from street use. The Iron Dart 302 is the way to go.
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:45 PM   #33
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diesel has made some good points, good advice.

408 is not a bad idea, 427 is ever better but that is a dart block type option =$
(at least I had thought!)

427 having more side load than a 408? depends.. apparently there is two ways to get there one is to use the stock block. The other option uses the same crank as the 408 in a dark block with bigger slugs. (the whole side loading issue is a bunch of .... anyways, for example the honda 1.6L uses a higher rod ratio than the 427 stroker that uses the stock block does, its not the reason that those particular kits fail.. I'd imagine the real problem is how far the piston has to come out of the bottom of the block)

347>351 part for part the 351 gets dusted every time.
408>347
and.. a
DART 408 using 302 main journal diameter > 408 using stock 351 mains
(for the same reason a 347 beats a 351!)

351C really is a bad ***... 351 cleavers are fun too.

And.. take the advice listed earlier about woody, I can verify from friends that he does a great job with very little cash, He does not cut corners like 90% of local builders try to, thats how some of them get the job done so much cheaper. (no torque plate hone, no line bore, very old school hone tools/patterns ect.)

if you go with an 8.2" deck (302 BTW..) instead of the 9.5"er insist on a mexican block! or aftermarket. stock late model 302 HO's will not handle much more than 450-500 HP
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:00 PM   #34
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A range of 450-500 engine hp would mean the 302 would be living on barrowed time. A range of 375-425 engine hp is where a stock block 302 needs to stay in order to stay together unless an aftermarket block is in the very near future.

---------- Post added at 08:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:56 PM ----------

Im leaning towards using a stocker 302 cid myself to keep torque at a minimum as im going to use a paxton novi 2000 setup and my mustang build will be using a stock style suspension with qa1 coilovers and I want to try MT SR tires so nobody raises any eyebrows when im at the drive in. I guess the jig will be up when I unleash the 650rwhp sucker punch though.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:21 PM   #35
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All the info is great thanks and Im sure this thread will help others making this decision all tho i ha e decided that Im staying with what i have and if my current engine blows Im goin to go with a stock block 331 and use all my current components. But i foresee a 520 ci 460 based alcohol breathing stroker in a ford ranger
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