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Old 05-07-2013, 11:30 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by scottydsntknow

GT40s and a s trim will make enough power to blow up the block. If we are talking off boost power then maybe you might want some better heads but you don't need anymore than the GT40s to make 425-450whp with the blower. At that point you should be looking at a DART block or 351 based build anyway.
But when the stock blocks gone an your runnin a dart or boss then gt40s are useless for making big power I'm just saying if you plan on going big then there's no point in using them an with out the s trim they don't flow near as good as trick flows or afrs an a new s trim is more then a 1000 an that's not even adding in the gt40s coast I like gt40 an my dads last fox had the same set up as you said an yes it would smoke all h/c/I cars but he said if he did have a boss block he would have ran better heads
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:41 AM   #37
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Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads are my answer. You will retain your driveability and make as much power by themselves as you would with both the gt40 heads and intake. TFS/TW heads are will be the last heads you will ever have to buy as they respond very well to porting and can support 300-1000+ HP.

With these heads a B or E cams, Steeda 19 or 18 cams and TFS stage 1 or 2 cams are all good options. Which cam would be best depends on your future modding plans and what kind of duty the car see's.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:19 PM   #38
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You can sell the GT40s for what you paid or very close to that. I mean the point that the TFS heads are the last heads you buy is valid, but if you are not going to do the DART build or only have $1k like the OP does... you take what you can get and a GT40 combo for that money will pick him up a pretty good amount of power, within his budget and will support the block all the way up to when its time to upgrade to a DART.
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Old 05-07-2013, 02:01 PM   #39
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If you buy GT40's with the entention of selling them, then you still have to put up with the effort of selling the heads and you may have to do so in order to buy new heads in order to beef up a dart/351 combo.

We can discuss back and forth which is better all day so im going to finish with this. Reality kicks in TFS heads are one simple mod than are going to give close to the same power levels as a full gt40 HCI combo and leave room for future intake and cam mods that will be better than the gt40 stuff and alot more fun until a poweradder/shortblock combo can be afforded.
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Old 05-07-2013, 02:28 PM   #40
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the egr is external. its mounted on a spacer by the TB in the stock setup.
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Old 05-07-2013, 03:51 PM   #41
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the egr is external. its mounted on a spacer by the TB in the stock setup.
so on the stock setup the egr is outside, so do I buy a gt40 upper and lower with the internal egr?
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Old 05-07-2013, 07:24 PM   #42
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I wouldnt, that way you ever decide to bore the intake then you can buy a tb/egr that matchs.
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:14 PM   #43
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If I had 1000 to spend on mine I would do chassis stiffening mods I went the performance route with my 88 gt hci and my floor pans are separating from the bottom of the dots and buckling as well
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:15 PM   #44
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Injectors fuel pump
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:55 AM   #45
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If you buy GT40's with the entention of selling them, then you still have to put up with the effort of selling the heads and you may have to do so in order to buy new heads in order to beef up a dart/351 combo.

We can discuss back and forth which is better all day so im going to finish with this. Reality kicks in TFS heads are one simple mod than are going to give close to the same power levels as a full gt40 HCI combo and leave room for future intake and cam mods that will be better than the gt40 stuff and alot more fun until a poweradder/shortblock combo can be afforded.
I understand where you are coming from. Fact is the guy only has $1k and if he wants to use that on a power gain, he is going to have to save up some more for a better intake and a cam to go with PLUS a dyno tune. We're talking another $1k at least in that regard. I do agree that futureproof heads are nice but there are other things to consider like does he want to build a new motor on the side and not have to put the car out of commission by pulling the heads off for portwork or does he even want/need more than 450whp? The TW heads can definitely be ported out to support a 408 or a 302 stroker though but you gotta look at those porting prices too. You'll probably spend more on the port job and the TW heads combined than you would for a good set of AFR 205s or 225s. Food for thought.

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If I had 1000 to spend on mine I would do chassis stiffening mods I went the performance route with my 88 gt hci and my floor pans are separating from the bottom of the dots and buckling as well
This x1000. I need to get subframes on my 98 GT ASAP actually... I had a 91 once that was my first Mustang and car buying experience. I later found out the chassis was twisted to hell because the PO had a 150 shot launching on slicks with no chassis bracing at all. If you don't have subframes... get subframes...

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Injectors fuel pump
Why? Stock 19s and the stock fuel pump are fine for right now. If he does crank the power level up he will need a fuel system to support it though. Wiht $1k to spend he isn't going to go past what the stock fuel system can support.
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:06 AM   #46
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I didn't read the whole post I just saw what would I do with $1000 and I need injectors and a pump lol

---------- Post added at 08:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:05 AM ----------

I need 60lbs and a cobra pump fml
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:07 PM   #47
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I understand where you are coming from. Fact is the guy only has $1k and if he wants to use that on a power gain, he is going to have to save up some more for a better intake and a cam to go with PLUS a dyno tune. We're talking another $1k at least in that regard. I do agree that futureproof heads are nice but there are other things to consider like does he want to build a new motor on the side and not have to put the car out of commission by pulling the heads off for portwork or does he even want/need more than 450whp? The TW heads can definitely be ported out to support a 408 or a 302 stroker though but you gotta look at those porting prices too. You'll probably spend more on the port job and the TW heads combined than you would for a good set of AFR 205s or 225s. Food for thought.

This x1000. I need to get subframes on my 98 GT ASAP actually... I had a 91 once that was my first Mustang and car buying experience. I later found out the chassis was twisted to hell because the PO had a 150 shot launching on slicks with no chassis bracing at all. If you don't have subframes... get subframes...

Why? Stock 19s and the stock fuel pump are fine for right now. If he does crank the power level up he will need a fuel system to support it though. Wiht $1k to spend he isn't going to go past what the stock fuel system can support.
how much hp can the stock 19lb injectors and fuel pump handle? I'm planning on doing ported gt40 upper and lower intake with ported e7 heads and an e303 with a 65mm tb and egr spacer. should I see any reason to upgrade to 24lb?
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:23 PM   #48
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how much hp can the stock 19lb injectors and fuel pump handle? I'm planning on doing ported gt40 upper and lower intake with ported e7 heads and an e303 with a 65mm tb and egr spacer. should I see any reason to upgrade to 24lb?
Not real sure. My current build consists of gt40 heads rebuilt with stiffer springs with about 13hr port and polish work. Gt40intake, ported polished and gasket matched. And a B cam. Was going to use 24lbers cause I have them. Interested also!
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:11 PM   #49
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My first car was a 93 cobra and they come stock with 24lb injectors. The 19lb injectors will lean out with GT40 heads and intake. Upgrading to 24lb injectors with matching calibrated MAF is a good investment as to maximize the GT40 heads and intakes ability. Also kinda needed to make sure your air fuel ratios stay at safe levels.

I think by the time you get done with GT40 stuff you will have invested alot more money than what you would with a simple set of TFS/TW heads as you would not have to dyno tune for them as long as you dont change cam, but bigger injectors and correctly calibrated MAF would be required as well. Reguardless of which route you take stay away from edelbrock performer rpm heads.

There is also the aproach that a penny saved is a penny earned. You could hold out for a Paxton Novi 2000 as that will probly be by first and only power mod while I build a engine on a stand to replace the stocker motor.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:43 PM   #50
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My first car was a 93 cobra and they come stock with 24lb injectors. The 19lb injectors will lean out with GT40 heads and intake. Upgrading to 24lb injectors with matching calibrated MAF is a good investment as to maximize the GT40 heads and intakes ability. Also kinda needed to make sure your air fuel ratios stay at safe levels.

I think by the time you get done with GT40 stuff you will have invested alot more money than what you would with a simple set of TFS/TW heads as you would not have to dyno tune for them as long as you dont change cam, but bigger injectors and correctly calibrated MAF would be required as well. Reguardless of which route you take stay away from edelbrock performer rpm heads.

There is also the aproach that a penny saved is a penny earned. You could hold out for a Paxton Novi 2000 as that will probly be by first and only power mod while I build a engine on a stand to replace the stocker motor.
I won't be running gt40 heads, only the intake. the heads will be ported e7's.. I think that would be fine with 19lb injectors don't you think.. Eventually I will upgrade to 24lb injectors and the right maf.. but say if I did upgrade, would the stock fuel pump keep up with the 24lb injectors?
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:12 PM   #51
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I would not waste any money porting the e7s.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:33 PM   #52
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I would not waste any money porting the e7s.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:47 PM   #53
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I would not waste any money porting the e7s.
I pickin some up for 220
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:37 PM   #54
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If I remember correctly since I havnt thought about it in a long time, fully ported E7 heads dont flow as well as gt40 heads unported. If I am correct you should be able to get away with using 19lb injectors. To confirm I would ask the seller of the Ported E7 if the 19's will indeed work. If you change cams the 24lb injectors and a tune will most likely be a requirement with the ported E7's and GT40 manifold.
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:57 PM   #55
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I pickin some up for 220
Congrats on the $220 boat anchors. I have been there and done this. The E7 heads are THAT bad. Even the CNC ported Powerheads are/were pretty much a waste of money.
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Old 05-10-2013, 09:43 PM   #56
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Congrats on the $220 boat anchors. I have been there and done this. The E7 heads are THAT bad. Even the CNC ported Powerheads are/were pretty much a waste of money.
What would be your favorite iron head budget build? I hear you knocking a bunch of stuff. Not all of us have money for a turbo or an aluminum head build. Not bein a dick. Just wondering?

---------- Post added at 09:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 PM ----------

I completely agree the e7s are trash. Pickin up my gt40s from the machine shop Monday. Rebuilt, stiffer springs, and about 15hrs port polish work at a helluva discount!
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:28 PM   #57
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What would be your favorite iron head budget build? I hear you knocking a bunch of stuff. Not all of us have money for a turbo or an aluminum head build. Not bein a dick. Just wondering?

---------- Post added at 09:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 PM ----------

I completely agree the e7s are trash. Pickin up my gt40s from the machine shop Monday. Rebuilt, stiffer springs, and about 15hrs port polish work at a helluva discount!

I've been through that in this thread already I thought... I bash putting $2500 worth of top end onto a stock block and then making possibly 100whp less power than a stock longblock with a $1500 used supercharger and a $500 fuel system. Dyno tune required for either so that's a wash. Been there and done that and I wish there were more frank ppl out there to tell me to forget the HCI and just get a blower.

In any event you have to pay to play, if you don't have the money for a blower or an aluminum head build you are looking at a low 13/high 12 second car at best unless you have some very good fabrication skills or serious SERIOUS weight reduction.

I do hope your GT40s are in the $500-$600 zone at the MOST including the cost of the heads, all the parts and the porting, if not you overspent and are in the beginnings of good used aluminum head territory. I have also been there/done that in the GT40 porting world. Unless you do all the work yourself or do get the porting done for a "helluva discount" you'll spend as much or more than a good used aluminum head. You also have to worry about the porter, how good of a job was done, wall thickness, making sure they are fully trued up etc... LOTS of crappy porters out there and I hope yours is good and if he is good you will at least have a set of heads that will likely get you over the 300whp mark. If you or anyone else knows where a guy named Neil Erickson went plz let me know...
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:31 PM   #58
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I've been through that in this thread already I thought... I bash putting $2500 worth of top end onto a stock block and then making possibly 100whp less power than a stock longblock with a $1500 used supercharger and a $500 fuel system. Dyno tune required for either so that's a wash. Been there and done that and I wish there were more frank ppl out there to tell me to forget the HCI and just get a blower.

In any event you have to pay to play, if you don't have the money for a blower or an aluminum head build you are looking at a low 13/high 12 second car at best unless you have some very good fabrication skills or serious SERIOUS weight reduction.

I do hope your GT40s are in the $500-$600 zone at the MOST including the cost of the heads, all the parts and the porting, if not you overspent and are in the beginnings of good used aluminum head territory. I have also been there/done that in the GT40 porting world. Unless you do all the work yourself or do get the porting done for a "helluva discount" you'll spend as much or more than a good used aluminum head. You also have to worry about the porter, how good of a job was done, wall thickness, making sure they are fully trued up etc... LOTS of crappy porters out there and I hope yours is good and if he is good you will at least have a set of heads that will likely get you over the 300whp mark. If you or anyone else knows where a guy named Neil Erickson went plz let me know...
You sir: are a dickface! Dueces forum...
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Old 05-11-2013, 10:49 AM   #59
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Yep, that's me. Sorry if everything I've said is not what you wanted to hear but its fact. Porting the E7s is an effort in futility. Porting the GT40s is effective IF you can get a porter who knows what they are doing and not charge you an arm and a leg. However most portjobs are going to take the GT40 heads into aluminum head price range.

I have been there and done, this, the BEST safely ported GT40 heads taken all the way out will flow slightly less than AFR165s and Twedge heads which you can pick up for the same price that a set of ported GT40s will usually cost. A set of used Twedge heads will go for $700 on the Corral if you are patient and look for a deal just as an example.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:03 PM   #60
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Not to take anyones side as scotty you dont have to be insulting to get your point across and 91notch you shouldnt let him get to you, we all have different ways of modding to reach our performance goals. That said, I too still say TFS/TW heads are a better buy over stock ported heads, even if you have to buy them used and have them milled for straightness. I say TFS/TW and not AFR because the stock cam is a single profile and more efficient. And I am one of those people that is going to skip HCI and go straight for the blower as I previously stated, but obviously you cant buy a decent blower from $1000 just anywhere which is why I stated he could save for a blower.
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Old 05-11-2013, 02:57 PM   #61
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I'm not trying to be insulting at all and if it comes off that way I apologize. Reality check is what I'm trying for and sometimes that might sound harsh or that I'm trying to "get to someone". I would like to be able to prevent someone else from wasting $hundreds on ported iron heads that will cost MORE than a comparable set of aluminums.
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Old 05-11-2013, 03:20 PM   #62
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I'm not trying to be insulting at all and if it comes off that way I apologize. Reality check is what I'm trying for and sometimes that might sound harsh or that I'm trying to "get to someone". I would like to be able to prevent someone else from wasting $hundreds on ported iron heads that will cost MORE than a comparable set of aluminums.
I believe what your failing to see is the hp per dollar ratio. You're also underrating the hp gained off of the gt40 style heads, although its a little better than a third of the tfs tw heads you keep trying to push and they're considerably cheaper by a long shot. If you want the flow edelbrock victors or canfields blow every other head out the water by a long shot. I will agree that if the final cost of the heads and port job are above $600 then you should hold off and buy used aluminum heads. Just my .02
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Old 05-11-2013, 03:42 PM   #63
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I believe what your failing to see is the hp per dollar ratio. You're also underrating the hp gained off of the gt40 style heads, although its a little better than a third of the tfs tw heads you keep trying to push and they're considerably cheaper by a long shot. If you want the flow edelbrock victors or canfields blow every other head out the water by a long shot. I will agree that if the final cost of the heads and port job are above $600 then you should hold off and buy used aluminum heads. Just my .02
I've actually been pushing unported GT40s this entire thread if you'd go back and read my posts. The only reason I was...pushing... the TW heads in the least few posts was just vs ported iron heads which are a complete and total waste of money IMO unless you do the portwork yourself (and are good at it) or pay someone in beer/trade for something.
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Old 05-11-2013, 04:36 PM   #64
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I've actually been pushing unported GT40s this entire thread if you'd go back and read my posts. The only reason I was...pushing... the TW heads in the least few posts was just vs ported iron heads which are a complete and total waste of money IMO unless you do the portwork yourself (and are good at it) or pay someone in beer/trade for something.
I have, you talk good about them and then tell people they wasted money and should've bought a used set of aluminum heads off of "corral".
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Old 05-11-2013, 04:47 PM   #65
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I said that if you spend more than a certain price point you should go aluminum. My original argument was and still is, to just get a cleaned up set of unported GT40s and throw them on with a blower. I'm just saying if you are GOING to spend $600+ on a set of heads then the GT40s are no longer an option you should be considering. Although you don't NEED to spend that much on heads with the stock block limit at 450whp give or take.

Just because I am pushing one combo for a budget build does not mean I am opposed to other combos and if someone wants a set of better flowing heads, I'm letting them know to NOT go the ported iron option as it is a waste of money.
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Old 05-11-2013, 09:29 PM   #66
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I believe what your failing to see is the hp per dollar ratio. You're also underrating the hp gained off of the gt40 style heads, although its a little better than a third of the tfs tw heads you keep trying to push and they're considerably cheaper by a long shot. If you want the flow edelbrock victors or canfields blow every other head out the water by a long shot. I will agree that if the final cost of the heads and port job are above $600 then you should hold off and buy used aluminum heads. Just my .02
I was under the impression that canfeild heads are no longer being produced and that TFS/TW heads due to their portability are a good campairable head, is this wrong?
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Old 05-11-2013, 09:37 PM   #67
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That is a pretty good assessment yes. EVERYONE used to run the Canfield 192/195 heads and you can still find them used in good shape from time to time. Great heads. Yes if you want a head that you don't have to buy again when you up to a 408 or something, the TW is a good one to look at as they DO have a lot of "meat" on them. However you also have to look at the price of AFR 205/225s or comparable TFS heads for something like a 408 and see how much the portjob on the TW heads will run you and decide if its worth it to port them or just buy heads that are ready to go.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:36 PM   #68
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Set money aside for a second, which head I would use TFS vs. AFR has everything to do with which camshaft I wish to use for that engine. The TFS heads maintain a 65% exhuast to intake ratio and the AFR heads about 80%. The 65% ratio is optimal for a single profile cam and the 80% ratio is optimal for a dual profile cam setup. Turbo/Boost applications work very well with 65% ratio heads and single prfile cams as no to create too much exhuast overlap. Nitrous/NA combinations love the 80% exhuast output as the more exhuast they can get out the better. Keeping this perspective in mind its not really a matter of money anymore.
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