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Old 05-09-2013, 05:45 PM   #1
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Supporting mods HP gain

So I was planning on buying a BBK Cai, BBK 70mm TB, and a BBK 76mm mass air meter for 24lb injectors, along with an sct 4 bank chip to bump up timing from 10* as well as help air/fuel ratio. Will I see any gains from all these mods at once for my 94' Cobra?

I know that H/C/I is the best bang for buck power wise, but I want to do that when I have time to learn to install them myself and am not going to school and working a full time job.

3.73's are on the way within the next week or two.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:36 PM   #2
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Well you now will have more air going in, now you have to get it out. What exhaust system setup do you currently have?
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:39 PM   #3
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Current set up is stock shorties, bbk o/r X and a set of welded in magnapacks
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:53 PM   #4
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With the tune you should have no problem gaining about 15rwhp. The gears though will be the most noticeable seat of your pants gain. Enjoy!
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:53 PM   #5
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Awesome! Definitely worth it then, will hopefully get a little gas mileage boost too

Any other somewhat cost efficient mods you would recommend for a few extra horses?
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:17 PM   #6
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The BBK/TB you are planning on will most likely only net you 2-3 HP at your current level of modification making other modifications more cost effective. Also rather than a BBK CAI or hot ait intake as I like to call them I would recomend a C&L or JLT setup, the JLT is more expensive but both are good proven performers. With a good CAI in place another induction mod will not net you as much power as moding a different part of your engines other systems to produce more power. One of the principles in the begining of performance moding is not to stack (or do supporting) performance mods. You do one here and one here with few exceptions. Your next mods should be spread out and not just stacked on one part of your engines functioning systems to maximize your performance gain per dollar.

For the money it looks like you are planning on spending and already having exhuast mods I would recommend C&L CAI with MAF, SCT Programing, and Meziere Electric Water Pump in place of your planned T/B.

And yes gears is a great way to enhance your performance but there are some general rules to gearing. One, you will need your SCT chip to be programed for the new gears. Two, in order to notice a performance gain from changing gear ratio you must go up 2 gear ratio sets. Your cobra came factory with 3.55 gears which means the next higher set at 3.73 will not give a noticable difference in performance. You will have to go to the next higher gear set of 3.90/4.10 in order for the performance gain to be worth the money as your car does not have a aftermarket HCI setup. If you dont want to go to that high of a gear ratio a FRPP lightweight driveshaft is a good mod to do instead.

As you stated your doing the mods yourself I do not recommend installing gears on your own, this is somthing that needs to be done by someone who does gears on a regular basis and most shops charge around $250 for installation not including parts. The FRPP aluminum driveshaft however is easy to install. I am a well seasoned mechanic having performed axle changes and tranny swaps and engine swaps and so on and I still wont do my own gears. The reason is because improper installation means a totaled car or even death with a broken gear set at the wrong time while your driving around. To install gears means you need to have someone help you who does do it on a regular basis or really just pay to have a pro install them.

Once you have CAI, Gears and/or Driveshaft, Tune, Exhuast, E-Water Pump it will be time to start looking into control arms and a good set of springs. I recommend Steeda Control Arms for street vehicles due to their supirior bushings and Eibach drag springs as they will not require a bump steer kit and are close to the same LB rating as stock GT springs but lower the rear 3/4 Inch which when added with the small difference in LB rating greatly improve straightly acceleration without sacrificing drivability.

Remember supporting mods come after spreaded out modding to maximize power. If you fallow my advice you will be ready for a set of heads to reach your next level of performance, I recomend AFT165cc heads or TFS/TW heads. Then shortly there after or at the same time different cam and intake. One exception to mod stacking is drivetrain mods. The lighter the drivetrain the more power you produce, its that simple, however its not always cost effective as this includes wheels and tires.

Good hunting.
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:21 AM   #7
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Thanks a ton for the advice! Completely forgot about the C&L intake and MAF combo, for some reason it's on American Muscle but not listed under their CAI section for the 94-95s. Since i believe my 94 Cobra has 24lb injectors, will the MAF be calibrated correctly? Or is it just calibrated with the tune?

Completely understand what you are saying with the gears, but the 94' Cobras actually came with the same stock 3.08 ratio as the GT's, so 3.73's should definitly give it a nice jump in acceleration! And installation wise I'm getting a local performance shop to install the gear and rebuild the diff, (rebuild and gear installation costs) and they want about $350 to do it, so it seems reasonable to me, plus everyone I have talked to has said the shop does top notch work and is very honest about the repairs and work they do! No way I would want to even mess with my diff, thats some serious stuff!

Suspension wise I'm aiming more for handling than I am strip times (since I hang out with a bunch of imports and love the twisties ), so I went with a set of CJ pony parts 2' lowering springs and am getting a set of eibach pro struts and shocks, then going for some bigger sway bars in both front and back!

And I will probably do the electric water pump at the same time as the CAI, MAF and tune now that you mention it! Is there any way you could link me the specific one? Or is there only one for the 94-95's by Meziere?
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:44 PM   #8
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There are quite a few from Meziere. From here you can choose 35 or 55 Gallon Per Minute pumps. Note: 35GPM is enough for pretty much everything your engine can throw at it. You have your choice of color as well. Meziere Enterprises

If it were my car Id pick the WP312S based on looks alone which is a 55GPM pump and would be ensure proper cooling for when I step up to a supercharger.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:53 PM   #9
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The BBK CAI that I had on my 95 Cobra was not the greatest piece in the world, I'd look elsewhere. Also the J4J1 computer compensates for the stock 24lb injectors, getting a MAF that is "calibrated" (hacked) for 24s will dick up your A/F, you need a regular 19lb MAF.

I had a 95 and I did a HCI on it and if I could go back and do it all over again I would not TOUCH that HCI... you are fortunate enough to be one of the few 5.0 owners who got one from the factory with a motor that can actually BREATHE... not as well as an aftermarket setup but still light years ahead of the regular 5.0 HO.

Do your bolt ons, upgrade the suspension, upgrade the fuel system and then slap an S trim on that bad boy. It'll go from about 250-260whp directly to 425-450whp which NO HCI will come close to getting in the same universe.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:16 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottydsntknow View Post
The BBK CAI that I had on my 95 Cobra was not the greatest piece in the world, I'd look elsewhere. Also the J4J1 computer compensates for the stock 24lb injectors, getting a MAF that is "calibrated" (hacked) for 24s will dick up your A/F, you need a regular 19lb MAF.

I had a 95 and I did a HCI on it and if I could go back and do it all over again I would not TOUCH that HCI... you are fortunate enough to be one of the few 5.0 owners who got one from the factory with a motor that can actually BREATHE... not as well as an aftermarket setup but still light years ahead of the regular 5.0 HO.

Do your bolt ons, upgrade the suspension, upgrade the fuel system and then slap an S trim on that bad boy. It'll go from about 250-260whp directly to 425-450whp which NO HCI will come close to getting in the same universe.
Would the SCT chip with a tune for the 24lb and bigger MAF not resolve problems that might otherwise persist?

Also how much boost could I safely run with an s-trim kit?

Thanks for the help!

---------- Post added at 12:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 AM ----------

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Originally Posted by 94BlackMamba View Post

Would the SCT chip with a tune for the 24lb and bigger MAF not resolve problems that might otherwise persist?

Also how much boost could I safely run with an s-trim kit?

Thanks for the help!
How much boost safely on stock internals***

To be completely honest if I could run low boost and get 325+ hp I would be more than happy!
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:44 AM   #11
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A Novi 2000 at 8psi on a stock EFI302HO will net you the 325hp your looking for. I recommend the Novi 2000 over the S-trim as it is capable of growing with your combination. A S-trims capability caps off at about 625hp and the Novi 2000 can produce 900+hp. Anyway the Paxton unit is a better buy. And 8-10 PSI is going to be the max you can run with 302 internals depending on your heads Combustion Camber size with engine Compresion Ratio and still be able to run pump gas. With centri boost 350rwhp is about all the stock engine rods can handle without starting to reduce engine life.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:20 PM   #12
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You can get an S trim in really good shape, complete kit for $1500 on the corral if you are patient. You will not get a Novi for that price. And if you will NEVER get above the S trim power level on a stock block or even a lot of aftermarket combos.

Stock block is good for 450whp safely, ppl push them to 500whp with "safe" tunes but that is asking for it IMO. With just bolt ons, an upgraded fuel system and like... 6 psi you'll hit that 325whp mark EASY. 12 psi should get you to the top end of the block's safety limit. You can shoehorn an intercooler in there too if you know what you are doing even though vortech says an "aftercooler" won't fit. That allows you to run less boost and is easier on the motor.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:55 PM   #13
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What's the best sounding mufflers for a mustang? Just like a wicked mean sound. How does magnaflows sound?
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Old 05-14-2013, 03:37 PM   #14
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Scotty is right about the stock block being able to take 450RWHP however your stock rods still cap of at about 350RWHP safely. Past 350RWHP you will need a stroker kit. Past 450RWHP you will need an aftermarket block which means if your going to do a stroker and a blower you will need an aftermarket block. If a aftermarket block is not in your future a good 342/347 stroker would be a better idea than a blower.

---------- Post added at 03:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:33 PM ----------

Best sounding mufflers with wicked mean sound is no mufflers. lol

I prefer dynomax mufflers on a 5.O
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Old 05-14-2013, 06:33 PM   #15
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Wow thanks for all th einput guys. This is a ton of help and is really making me want to go with a supercharged setup soon.

So if I was to go with an S-Trim, would 39lb injectors be sufficient? Also what other parts of the fuel system would I want to upgrade? Fuel pump?

And do you guys think a performance shop would be able fabricate a front mount inter-cooler setup? I want the set up to be as reliable/long lasting as possible so if an inter-cooler will help with that I would rather go that route.

Lastly, should my cobra Heads, Intake, and Cam be up to the task? From what I have read the Cobra intake is a huge improvement over stock 5.0's, and the heads are quite a bit better as well. Should I swap any of these out to go for that 325hp goal with the S-trim? or should the S trim in itself get me there?

Anything else that would prevent stuff from breaking prematurely would be awesome.
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Old 05-15-2013, 04:04 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselStang View Post
Scotty is right about the stock block being able to take 450RWHP however your stock rods still cap of at about 350RWHP safely. Past 350RWHP you will need a stroker kit. Past 450RWHP you will need an aftermarket block which means if your going to do a stroker and a blower you will need an aftermarket block. If a aftermarket block is not in your future a good 342/347 stroker would be a better idea than a blower.

---------- Post added at 03:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:33 PM ----------

Best sounding mufflers with wicked mean sound is no mufflers. lol

I prefer dynomax mufflers on a 5.O
False about the 5.0 rods. Where the heck did you get this info? The 5.0 rotating assy will hold together well after the block grenades into a million pieces. The rods are the weak link on the 4.6L, not the 5.0L. And even the 4.6L rods are good for 400-425whp...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 94BlackMamba View Post
Wow thanks for all th einput guys. This is a ton of help and is really making me want to go with a supercharged setup soon.

So if I was to go with an S-Trim, would 39lb injectors be sufficient? Also what other parts of the fuel system would I want to upgrade? Fuel pump?

And do you guys think a performance shop would be able fabricate a front mount inter-cooler setup? I want the set up to be as reliable/long lasting as possible so if an inter-cooler will help with that I would rather go that route.

Lastly, should my cobra Heads, Intake, and Cam be up to the task? From what I have read the Cobra intake is a huge improvement over stock 5.0's, and the heads are quite a bit better as well. Should I swap any of these out to go for that 325hp goal with the S-trim? or should the S trim in itself get me there?

Anything else that would prevent stuff from breaking prematurely would be awesome.
39s should be fine, I'm assuming you're looking at a pullout set from a Termi? Most ppl just do a 255lph pump with 42# injectors and call it good. You don't really NEED an intercooler with a S trim especially if you just want 325whp. There is no really fabbing up a front mount intercooler, the intercooler fits fine its running the piping that can be tricky in the SN95 but it has been done. For your power goals I would not worry about an intercooler at all.

As far as your HCI, LEAVE IT. The Cobra stock cam is actually milder than the GT cam but the 1.7 Crane rockers that Ford installed makes up for that. It is surprisingly a VERY serviceable blower cam as is the GT cam. The GT40 heads and intake you have will easily support over 400whp with the supercharger so for 325... hell E7s would have no issue doing that either.
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Old 05-15-2013, 06:28 PM   #17
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False about the 5.0 rods. Where the heck did you get this info? The 5.0 rotating assy will hold together well after the block grenades into a million pieces. The rods are the weak link on the 4.6L, not the 5.0L. And even the 4.6L rods are good for 400-425whp...

39s should be fine, I'm assuming you're looking at a pullout set from a Termi? Most ppl just do a 255lph pump with 42# injectors and call it good. You don't really NEED an intercooler with a S trim especially if you just want 325whp. There is no really fabbing up a front mount intercooler, the intercooler fits fine its running the piping that can be tricky in the SN95 but it has been done. For your power goals I would not worry about an intercooler at all.

As far as your HCI, LEAVE IT. The Cobra stock cam is actually milder than the GT cam but the 1.7 Crane rockers that Ford installed makes up for that. It is surprisingly a VERY serviceable blower cam as is the GT cam. The GT40 heads and intake you have will easily support over 400whp with the supercharger so for 325... hell E7s would have no issue doing that either.
Awesome, definitly gonna save up for a kit soon. Excited to hear I can stick with my stock HCI! Would it run cool enough to take on road trip, or continuous hours of driving?
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:05 AM   #18
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Depends on the year of production as to how good the rods are in the stock 302 rotating assembly. Seeing as how his car is a 94 your right he shouldnt have an issue. Had a brain fart, thats imbarassing.. lol

And yes you should have no problem cruizing the interstates with a simple supercharger kit as long as your radiator and water pump are in good condition.

As far as the supercharger goes I would highly implore you to go with the Paxton unit. Should you ever decide you want more power and buy an aftermarket shortblock you wont have to buy another supercharger to fit your needs.
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:00 AM   #19
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Depends on the year of production as to how good the rods are in the stock 302 rotating assembly. Seeing as how his car is a 94 your right he shouldnt have an issue. Had a brain fart, thats imbarassing.. lol

And yes you should have no problem cruizing the interstates with a simple supercharger kit as long as your radiator and water pump are in good condition.

As far as the supercharger goes I would highly implore you to go with the Paxton unit. Should you ever decide you want more power and buy an aftermarket shortblock you wont have to buy another supercharger to fit your needs.
Awesome. I will be upgrading my water pump to the one you mentioned earlier, and will be upgrading to a new radiator soon enough anyways. And to be honest I dont think I would go over 500 horsepower. Im gonna start around 325 and work my way up closer to 400 to see how I like it. I would probably max out around 450, as I want it to be an all around performer. Somthing I can take to autocross and track days as well as the strip!
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:21 AM   #20
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Sounds like fun to me. Just remember power is a drug the more you have the more your want and the Paxton better suits these kinds of impulses than a Vortech will as the Paxton Novi 2000 would be the last supercharger you would have to buy and if you buy the tuner kit they can be fairly cheap, even brand new.
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:28 AM   #21
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Sounds like fun to me. Just remember power is a drug the more you have the more your want and the Paxton better suits these kinds of impulses than a Vortech will as the Paxton Novi 2000 would be the last supercharger you would have to buy and if you buy the tuner kit they can be fairly cheap, even brand new.
For sure! I will look into it when I get closer to doing it. Cost effectiveness, quality and reliability are all big for me.
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:38 AM   #22
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Vortech and Paxton are sister companies and have the same level of quality. However Paxton doesnt have a 94-95 specific kit and would require seprate purchase of a vortec inlet tube for a 94-95 stang. But because of the Paxton Novi 2000s ability to grow it is worth the extra coin if your buying new. But if your going to buy the supercharger system used to save some money then either would be ok I guess, but the Paxton is definatly better.
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Old 05-16-2013, 02:11 PM   #23
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hmm good to know! Hopefully by the end of the summer I will have the cash saved up to do this build! If I get enough I might go with the Novi 2000 just in case I do get crazy. haha
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Old 05-16-2013, 03:23 PM   #24
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Well, the S-trim at 8-12psi on a GT40 motor is a tried/true combo. You will not have any overheating/driveability issues provided you go get a good tune and your gas mileage might even increase lol. Well, it will if you keep your foot out of it haha... yeah...

Agreed that the Novi is just about future proof, also realize that you will not NEED anything close to the Novi's max potential without spending $THOUSANDS on an aftermarket block based build or at least a punched out 351 stroker. I have been there and done this with the "get the future proof thing now" and honestly... just get the S trim and put the money you will likely waste on the Novi for power your stock motor will never be able to use and get a fuel system to support the S trim.

Also if you you DO want to grow later you can sell your S trim for a pretty decent price online, turn around and for a few $hundred more upgrade yourself to a T trim. Or see if you can get a deal on a YSI.
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Old 05-16-2013, 04:05 PM   #25
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What "future proof" build did you do scotty?
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Old 05-17-2013, 02:18 PM   #26
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A $thousands of dollars 5 spd transmission for my Cobra when the stock T-5 would have been MORE than fine for the power level I was pushing, wound up pushing and probably for the "planned" build I had done for it provided I kept it on street tires. IMO, get the supporting mods you need all at once when you do your build.

In this case, yes the Novi would make it so he pretty much would not need to upgrade ever. Its not that simple though. You also have to factor in the cost of the swap parts for the 94/95 car and the extra cost of the blower itself vs the S trim and later upgrading to a T trim or YSI if he even wants to do that. S trim is $1500 used in really good shape on the Corral and that is a fact. The Novi will be $2200ish not to mention the extra parts to put it in a 94/95 car. Selling the S trim headunit and upgrading to a T trim IF he ever gets to the 600whp range will not cost $700.

Again, I would just get the S trim and be done with it but its not my car or my money, just what I would do having pretty much wasted a lot of money buying parts I didn't need and wound up not using. The S trim is inexpensive, top quality, proven, will WAY more than support his goals and up to a 550-600hp motor depending on the rest of the combo and drops right into a 94/95 car just as long as you get the 94/95 specific one.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:44 PM   #27
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Perhaps the vortech is the way to go if you want to put in the time waiting for bargain buys but I maintain that if your buying new Paxton is still the way to go. And as far as tranny swaping goes I always consider the trans type depending on what gearing your combo needs if your going to swap away from your stock tranny. And your right in that you can burn alot of money buying a "future" proof tranny as a 1200hp capable T-56 is what? 6 grand? more?
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:09 AM   #28
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Do you guys know if I would be able to get a t56 or 6 speed swap from a 03-04 cobra for less than $2k? Would I need a new flyweel drive shaft and clutch? Anything else?
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Old 05-18-2013, 09:47 AM   #29
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Do you guys know if I would be able to get a t56 or 6 speed swap from a 03-04 cobra for less than $2k? Would I need a new flyweel drive shaft and clutch? Anything else?
For the longest time I was against the Cobra T-56 as a "waste" because the final drive ratio is not much higher if at all than some 5 spds. Some T-3650s have a .62 final drive which is the same as the 03/04 Cobra transmissions and are just as strong. I have lately come around to it from learning about road racing and how much the road racers like to have that extra gear between 4th and 6th.

So if you are getting the 6 spd for that "extra" gear realize that the extra gear is the .71 5th gear, not a taller final gear unless you get a "magnum" T-56 designed for the Mustang and with the GM/Viper gearset instaled.

With that said, that extra 5th gear is very nice for road racers as previously mentioned and having an extra gear for street driving so you don't have to choose between revving highish in 4th or lugging 5th.

Finally, for the price you'll pay to get a Cobra T-56, the bell, driveshaft shortened, crossmember and shifter you can get a T3650 or T45 rebuilt to be just as strong and it'll drop right in. Get a T3650 with the final .62 drive ratio if you want the lower overdrive of the Cobra T-56

Oh, and to answer your first question...

-Used 03/04 Terminator trans - $1300-$1700 depending on who is selling, don't pay more than that. Should come with bell
-$100 to get your driveshaft shortened
-$100-$200 for a T-56 crossmember or a 96-98 crossmember mod kit
-$150 for a shifter
-Clutch will be however much you want to pay or if your current one is low miles just re-use it, the 03/04 Cobra trans is a 10 spline input.

I was quoted around $1300 for a 500whp T45 rebuild by two very good shops (t45source and Hanlon) and about $300 more for the 26 spline input upgrade which would take the trans up even higher in power rating. I'm still debating on what to do myself when I upgrade the trans in this car as I do want to road race it but I also would like to just be able to pull and install in 3 hours on a lift vs having to modify the car for a T-56 to fit.
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