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Old 07-24-2013, 12:29 AM   #1
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camshaft choices

so i have a 94gt 260xxx ks on it but the motor has been rebuilt and only has 100,000 on it, i have the bbk cold air intake, 70mm throttle body, msd distributor and ignition system, im gonna do 3.73 gears next but also wanna put a cam and roller rockers and lifters, should i upgrade the heads, whats the best combo?
thanks.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:29 AM   #2
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so i have a 94gt 260xxx ks on it but the motor has been rebuilt and only has 100,000 on it, i have the bbk cold air intake, 70mm throttle body, msd distributor and ignition system, im gonna do 3.73 gears next but also wanna put a cam and roller rockers and lifters, should i upgrade the heads, whats the best combo?
thanks.
You have to get high compression heads for a cam. Some cams are to steep for street use aswell, for example you will loose some vacuum when you get a steep cam so your brakes will suck. Also passing emissions is impossible unless you know somebody. Anyway it's not as simple a Slapping a big trick flow stage 3 cam in and making 400 hp. You need high compression heads like gt-40's or trick flow twisted wedge's. I to have a 94 gt and mine was from Ontario Canada. I'm in America, lol the people I bought off of we're Canadians. That motor has a lot kilometers on it even if it was rebuilt so If you plan to really put serious mods in to it just do yourself a favor and buy a new block bored to a 347 or something.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:01 AM   #3
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Heads first, or cam WITH heads. On a super tight budget? 1.7's but no cam
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Old 07-24-2013, 12:28 PM   #4
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You have to get high compression heads for a cam. Some cams are to steep for street use aswell, for example you will loose some vacuum when you get a steep cam so your brakes will suck. Also passing emissions is impossible unless you know somebody. Anyway it's not as simple a Slapping a big trick flow stage 3 cam in and making 400 hp... You need high compression heads like gt-40's or trick flow twisted wedge's.
Please elaborate on how you require high compression heads to run something like a TFS1 or a Crane 2030 or Steeda 19. Also plz elaborate on how GT40s or Twedge heads on a stock rotating assembly is going to be high compression.



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Heads first, or cam WITH heads. On a super tight budget? 1.7's but no cam
Agreed, if you have the stock heads, the stock cam is your best option, throw some 1.7s at it if you must and you'll get a little more lift out of it.

Personally I'd just throw a S trim on it once all the bolt ons are done. 400+ whp with the supercharger vs 300-320whp at most with a HCI.
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:22 PM   #5
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Please elaborate on how you require high compression heads to run something like a TFS1 or a Crane 2030 or Steeda 19. Also plz elaborate on how GT40s or Twedge heads on a stock rotating assembly is going to be high compression.

+1 lol
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:22 PM   #6
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well i wasnt i wasnt thinking huge cam....just a bit bigger.....but im thinking of throwing same cam, just new with 1.7s and run it till it blows then build a stroker,any other advice??????? im a autobody guy..so my mechanic skills are decent
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:25 PM   #7
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Please elaborate on how you require high compression heads to run something like a TFS1 or a Crane 2030 or Steeda 19. Also plz elaborate on how GT40s or Twedge heads on a stock rotating assembly is going to be high compression.



Agreed, if you have the stock heads, the stock cam is your best option, throw some 1.7s at it if you must and you'll get a little more lift out of it.

Personally I'd just throw a S trim on it once all the bolt ons are done. 400+ whp with the supercharger vs 300-320whp at most with a HCI.
Because it wouldn't be worth it to put a cam like those in unless you just want the sound. Also you won't make any power with stock heads, and when I said you should upgrade to something like a 347 stroker that means new rotating assembly duhh. A cam in a stock motor is a waste of time and money.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:30 PM   #8
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well i wasnt i wasnt thinking huge cam....just a bit bigger.....but im thinking of throwing same cam, just new with 1.7s and run it till it blows then build a stroker,any other advice??????? im a autobody guy..so my mechanic skills are decent
Lol just put a wet 100 shot of nitrous if you don't care about it, it will seem stock until you blow the doors off them. 100 shot is pushing it on a old motor and it will give you 3x much hp as a mild cam in a stock motor would.
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:06 PM   #9
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A proper 100 shot of wet or dry nitrous will NOT be anywhere near limit pushing of stock block... Unless its a 5.0 built after 93...

150 and injectors and good to go!
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:14 PM   #10
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I've seen lots of people put FRPP E cams in their 5.0's with stock Heads/Intake and get some decent gains and it sounds pretty BA to boot. A GT40 top end kit with an E cam will get you around 280 RWHP which is a pretty solid # for a low price to buy all of that stuff especially since you can find that in a junk yard or online for cheap. You will also need the 1.7 rockers with the cam, the gt40 rockers are garbage.
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:25 AM   #11
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I've seen lots of people put FRPP E cams in their 5.0's with stock Heads/Intake and get some decent gains and it sounds pretty BA to boot. A GT40 top end kit with an E cam will get you around 280 RWHP which is a pretty solid # for a low price to buy all of that stuff especially since you can find that in a junk yard or online for cheap. You will also need the 1.7 rockers with the cam, the gt40 rockers are garbage.
In other words, like i stated above... Don't do anything past the heads until those piece of **** e7's come off...
Gt40's are NOT e7's lol

I have an e cam with a tubular gt40 intake. It pulls hard enough to yank a new coyote out of the hole with me on slicks all the way to the 1/8. But my biggest drain in my potential is my friggin e7's.
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:08 AM   #12
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Because it wouldn't be worth it to put a cam like those in unless you just want the sound. Also you won't make any power with stock heads, and when I said you should upgrade to something like a 347 stroker that means new rotating assembly duhh. A cam in a stock motor is a waste of time and money.
Lol way to not elaborate...
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:22 AM   #13
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If you are going to run it til it blows anyway, I would go with a decent set of gt40's or gt40p's, with an explorer intake, stock cam with 1.7 rollers and get a good centrifugal supercharger with room to grow. You'll have plenty of potential to split your current block down the middle and when you decide to upgrade, the supercharger will go with you and the potential will be there for 20+ PSI to push a much higher HP application.
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:14 AM   #14
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If you are going to run it til it blows anyway, I would go with a decent set of gt40's or gt40p's, with an explorer intake, stock cam with 1.7 rollers and get a good centrifugal supercharger with room to grow. You'll have plenty of potential to split your current block down the middle and when you decide to upgrade, the supercharger will go with you and the potential will be there for 20+ PSI to push a much higher HP application.
This is my advice to pretty much everyone not looking to go past the limitations of the stock block. Stock driveability, stock gas mileage, cheaper than a HCI and you can turn it up to and past 450whp if you want.

And if you do want to go past the limitations of the stock block just go 351. There is 0 reason not to and the ceiling of the 351 is way way higher. Not to mention if you haven't driven a nice street built 408 making 500/500 without even trying on pump gas you need to. Its a complete animal.
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:04 AM   #15
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Lol way to not elaborate...
Let me elaborate further for you, a tfs1, crane 2030 and steeda 19 in a otherwise stock motor would give you barely any gains. I assumed he wants a cam for more power. The only way to make enough power for it to be worth upgrading the cam is to upgrade the heads aswell. Considering the fact that his motor has a billion miles on it, it would be wise to go ahead and buy a board block form somewhere else that can handle 450+hp. The 5.0 in the sn-95's are weak to begin with so dumping time and money into it would be a waste. Considering how cheap blocks are it becomes expensive when you add the forged rotating assembly, aluminum heads, intake, an all the other stuff you should add like headers, new water pump, aluminum radiator, smog delete and clutch while you have it out it gets really expensive really quick!
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:59 AM   #16
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Let me elaborate further for you, a tfs1, crane 2030 and steeda 19 in a otherwise stock motor would give you barely any gains. I assumed he wants a cam for more power. The only way to make enough power for it to be worth upgrading the cam is to upgrade the heads aswell. Considering the fact that his motor has a billion miles on it, it would be wise to go ahead and buy a board block form somewhere else that can handle 450+hp. The 5.0 in the sn-95's are weak to begin with so dumping time and money into it would be a waste. Considering how cheap blocks are it becomes expensive when you add the forged rotating assembly, aluminum heads, intake, an all the other stuff you should add like headers, new water pump, aluminum radiator, smog delete and clutch while you have it out it gets really expensive really quick!
Yeah I already said that I was talking g about you elaborating on these high compression TFS/gt40 heads... they aren't BTW... not unless you mill them or have dome pistons.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:09 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by 94gtconvert

Let me elaborate further for you, a tfs1, crane 2030 and steeda 19 in a otherwise stock motor would give you barely any gains. I assumed he wants a cam for more power. The only way to make enough power for it to be worth upgrading the cam is to upgrade the heads aswell. Considering the fact that his motor has a billion miles on it, it would be wise to go ahead and buy a board block form somewhere else that can handle 450+hp. The 5.0 in the sn-95's are weak to begin with so dumping time and money into it would be a waste. Considering how cheap blocks are it becomes expensive when you add the forged rotating assembly, aluminum heads, intake, an all the other stuff you should add like headers, new water pump, aluminum radiator, smog delete and clutch while you have it out it gets really expensive really quick!
Where did you get the info on the sn95 weak the only weak link in them is the hypereutectic pistons it has and they will take alot it tuned right
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:15 AM   #18
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A proper 100 shot of wet or dry nitrous will NOT be anywhere near limit pushing of stock block... Unless its a 5.0 built after 93...

150 and injectors and good to go!
Lol my dad had a h/c/I sn95 with the stock hypereutectic pistons and a 100 shot ever blow up and it run for years tell it got stolen
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:40 PM   #19
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Lol my dad had a h/c/I sn95 with the stock hypereutectic pistons and a 100 shot ever blow up and it run for years tell it got stolen
I think with any power adder it has a lot to do with the tune.
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:57 PM   #20
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Yeah I already said that I was talking g about you elaborating on these high compression TFS/gt40 heads... they aren't BTW... not unless you mill them or have dome pistons.
The twisted wedges can be used in a high compression setup, yes you need dome pistons, but the heads don't need to be milled to. Also
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:02 PM   #21
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A proper 100 shot of wet or dry nitrous will NOT be anywhere near limit pushing of stock block... Unless its a 5.0 built after 93...

150 and injectors and good to go!
Yea like he said its a 94 so it's pushing it
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:13 PM   #22
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Where did you get the info on the sn95 weak the only weak link in them is the hypereutectic pistons it has and they will take alot it tuned right
You just answered your own question, also my neighbor threw a rod in his a couple years ago with basically no mods or nitrous he just beat on it to much. I have a 94 I'm not "hateing on it". It sounds better than modular motors nowadays anyway.
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:57 PM   #23
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Lol my dad had a h/c/I sn95 with the stock hypereutectic pistons and a 100 shot ever blow up and it run for years tell it got stolen
All I meant by this is I don't have extensive personal knowledge with those engines. Computer included.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:59 PM   #24
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All I meant by this is I don't have extensive personal knowledge with those engines. Computer included.

I do and there is a lot of bad info in this thread. Or at least confusing info especially for a person just getting into modding. The rotating assembly in all the 5.0s is not the weak point, the block is. Also GT40/TFS heads are not high compression, not in stock form and pretty much all the aftermarket heads designed for a 302 will yield around 9:1 compression when paired with the stock pistons.

Anyway, to once again answer the OP's question. Stock heads=stock cam. Aftermarket heads, all depends what you are going to do. There are some pretty good OTS cams, there are budget cams like the TFS1, there are the custom grinds like the ones Ed Curtis does and all sorts of madness when it comes to modding the pushrod as you'll find out the more you research.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:05 PM   #25
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This is my advice to pretty much everyone not looking to go past the limitations of the stock block. Stock driveability, stock gas mileage, cheaper than a HCI and you can turn it up to and past 450whp if you want.

And if you do want to go past the limitations of the stock block just go 351. There is 0 reason not to and the ceiling of the 351 is way way higher. Not to mention if you haven't driven a nice street built 408 making 500/500 without even trying on pump gas you need to. Its a complete animal.
+1 my dad has a 408 with scat forged rotating assembly afr 185r heads comp cam(idk the specs) Harland sharp rockers edlebrock air gap intake etc and it's a monster it put 425 to the ground with some fuel problems and running bad lean on top end he has 5000 in the motor and it's so easy to drive and got 17.3 mpg with a 5 speed
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Old 07-26-2013, 09:50 AM   #26
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I do and there is a lot of bad info in this thread. Or at least confusing info especially for a person just getting into modding. The rotating assembly in all the 5.0s is not the weak point, the block is. Also GT40/TFS heads are not high compression, not in stock form and pretty much all the aftermarket heads designed for a 302 will yield around 9:1 compression when paired with the stock pistons.

Anyway, to once again answer the OP's question. Stock heads=stock cam. Aftermarket heads, all depends what you are going to do. There are some pretty good OTS cams, there are budget cams like the TFS1, there are the custom grinds like the ones Ed Curtis does and all sorts of madness when it comes to modding the pushrod as you'll find out the more you research.
Agreed, sorry to have argued about the heads, at a car show a guy with a fox had tfs heads and told me he was running high compression. Maybe he was but I don't know. Anyway I heard that the block is weak to, I googled it and the Mexican made blocks before 93 are the best of the best, years 93,94,and 95 were much weaker blocks. I found gt-40's on Craigslist for 250$ and a explorer intake. If I got both put them on my motor got a bigger tb and put a trick flow stage 1 cam in who could I get to tune my computer? I saw a YouTube video that the 94,95's have adaptive learning fuel injection and try to conserve fuel, but with a cam the compute just messes everything up. Who and where can I get it tuned?
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Old 07-26-2013, 11:56 AM   #27
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Agreed, sorry to have argued about the heads, at a car show a guy with a fox had tfs heads and told me he was running high compression. Maybe he was but I don't know. Anyway I heard that the block is weak to, I googled it and the Mexican made blocks before 93 are the best of the best, years 93,94,and 95 were much weaker blocks. I found gt-40's on Craigslist for 250$ and a explorer intake. If I got both put them on my motor got a bigger tb and put a trick flow stage 1 cam in who could I get to tune my computer? I saw a YouTube video that the 94,95's have adaptive learning fuel injection and try to conserve fuel, but with a cam the compute just messes everything up. Who and where can I get it tuned?
Again, compression does not have to do with JUST heads. If you mill a set of heads they will have smaller combustion chambers and thus have higher compression. In box stock form this is not true. You can also run higher compression with dome pistons or a combination of the two among other things. Anyway, there are a lot of factors. Dude you talked to probably had dome pistons and milled heads or both running 12:1 or something.

As for the blocks, Mexican blocks didn't come in Mustangs, don't know where you got that info. The roller 5.0 blocks in Mustangs are identical from 1985 till they stopped using them in 1995. The Mexican block is found in utility vehicles and is supposed to be 25% stronger. IMO, just go 351 instead of messing with a Mexican block that is still weaker than the weakeset 351 block.
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Old 07-26-2013, 03:26 PM   #28
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I do and there is a lot of bad info in this thread. Or at least confusing info especially for a person just getting into modding. The rotating assembly in all the 5.0s is not the weak point, the block is. Also GT40/TFS heads are not high compression, not in stock form and pretty much all the aftermarket heads designed for a 302 will yield around 9:1 compression when paired with the stock pistons.

Anyway, to once again answer the OP's question. Stock heads=stock cam. Aftermarket heads, all depends what you are going to do. There are some pretty good OTS cams, there are budget cams like the TFS1, there are the custom grinds like the ones Ed Curtis does and all sorts of madness when it comes to modding the pushrod as you'll find out the more you research.
+1
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Old 07-26-2013, 07:47 PM   #29
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Again, compression does not have to do with JUST heads. If you mill a set of heads they will have smaller combustion chambers and thus have higher compression. In box stock form this is not true. You can also run higher compression with dome pistons or a combination of the two among other things. Anyway, there are a lot of factors. Dude you talked to probably had dome pistons and milled heads or both running 12:1 or something.

As for the blocks, Mexican blocks didn't come in Mustangs, don't know where you got that info. The roller 5.0 blocks in Mustangs are identical from 1985 till they stopped using them in 1995. The Mexican block is found in utility vehicles and is supposed to be 25% stronger. IMO, just go 351 instead of messing with a Mexican block that is still weaker than the weakeset 351 block.
I saw some people talking about the Mexican blocks on the other mustang forum called "all ford mustangs" idk I thought they were used I the older foxes and 4 eyes, guess not. How much is a 351 block and how much hp can they handle?
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Old 07-26-2013, 08:21 PM   #30
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351 roller block is an f4+ block and are good for around 700whp. I've seen them for $200-$300 for a whole econoline motor around here on CL. From what it sounds like you are just getting started and might want to just buy a complete motor. If that's the case I recommend Woody at www.fordstrokers.com to set you up.
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Old 07-26-2013, 10:41 PM   #31
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351 roller block is an f4+ block and are good for around 700whp. I've seen them for $200-$300 for a whole econoline motor around here on CL. From what it sounds like you are just getting started and might want to just buy a complete motor. If that's the case I recommend Woody at www.fordstrokers.com to set you up.
I rebuilt the 396 in my 70 chevelle its not new to me, just not to familiar with fuel injection or computer tuning or what's compatible with what on ford small blocks. I also rebuilt the top end on a 1.8 turbo vw that bent a valve. Maby ill find a way to slap my leftover 454 in the stang hahhah. Jk that would be a cardinal sin
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Old 07-27-2013, 03:29 PM   #32
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Eh its been done... there are 460 based Mustangs running around here and there, you might see a few if you hit up a big track event.

Ok so you are not new to rebuilding. Well then honestly if you are going from scratch, do a 408 stroker. I'd still recommend fordstrokers for all your parts, there have been some issues recently with 351 blocks and cracking under the cam bearings. Woody goes through all his blocks 100% so you know its good when you get one from him. If you are still just going to pull one from a JY, any F4 and up 351 is going to be roller ready (as in has the higher lifter bores and tapped for the hold-down spider) and you can go from there.

The best places to get a forged rotating stroker kit are from:

FordStrokers.com 331-347-408-418-427 Custom Built Small Block Ford Engines

Coast High Performance: Ford, Chevy, Stroker Kits, Short Blocks, Long Blocks, Crate Engines

AD Performance, Your Source for Longblock Performance Parts

For the best cam you're going to be looking at a custom grind once you completely hash out your combo and for that get with Ed Curtis at FlowTech Induction
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Old 07-27-2013, 11:44 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottydsntknow View Post
Eh its been done... there are 460 based Mustangs running around here and there, you might see a few if you hit up a big track event.

Ok so you are not new to rebuilding. Well then honestly if you are going from scratch, do a 408 stroker. I'd still recommend fordstrokers for all your parts, there have been some issues recently with 351 blocks and cracking under the cam bearings. Woody goes through all his blocks 100% so you know its good when you get one from him. If you are still just going to pull one from a JY, any F4 and up 351 is going to be roller ready (as in has the higher lifter bores and tapped for the hold-down spider) and you can go from there.

The best places to get a forged rotating stroker kit are from:

FordStrokers.com 331-347-408-418-427 Custom Built Small Block Ford Engines

Coast High Performance: Ford, Chevy, Stroker Kits, Short Blocks, Long Blocks, Crate Engines

AD Performance, Your Source for Longblock Performance Parts

For the best cam you're going to be looking at a custom grind once you completely hash out your combo and for that get with Ed Curtis at FlowTech Induction
Sounds good, thanks. I will look into those and try to figure out how I could afford it. A 408 sounds good, I want like 450 to the tires and a reliable build that can be a daily beater. I know that's asking a lot but maybe I will buy a cheap beater.
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:54 AM   #34
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A mild 408 stroker will make 500+whp to the tires, last for a very long time and get pretty decent gas mileage.
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Old 07-28-2013, 11:27 AM   #35
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To YouTube I go to spend the morning looking at 408s lol
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