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Old 08-01-2013, 12:37 AM   #1
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need some input

Ok, so I'm going to a couple parts stores tomoro to get some stuff for my 95 gt.

Ill give you the rundown of what's in the car now, and what I'm trying to achieve.

347 stroker bottom end
P/p e7 heads with bigger valves
Ported intake
Stock throttlebody
Stock maf
Unknown cam, dude said its close to a 600 lift
Shorty headers
19# injectors
Untuned ecu (yet has a rev limiter for some reason)

Anyhow, my issue right now is the maf is toast (sample pins bent from being touched) if I plug it in, car won't even idle, if I unhook it, it runs pretty well
It runs RICH, I mean... really freakin rich.

So my question.. will the stock throttlebody and a stock maf replacement cut it with stock 19# injectors, or is it a waste of money to buy a oem maf? I know it won't make its potential power..but should it at least lean it out enough that I don't see my gas gage dropping just leaving my driveway?

I'm looking into a set of new heads and intake because they're limiting it a lot. And ill be getting a tune

But what do you guys think? If those injectors/throttlebody/maf won't even help the issues, what are some donor cars I can get a set of bigger injectors out of? Ill buy them and a couple other parts at a boneyard to save some cash for heads and such.
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Old 08-01-2013, 01:11 AM   #2
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The stock MAF is setup for 19# injectors. The cobras (1993 I think) used 24# injectors but compensated with the ECM not the MAF. The stock MAF was restrictive so if you can, get a larger one. Rule of thumb is MAF 5mm larger than Throttle Body. While the MAF was restrictive your E7TE heads are the most restrictive part on your setup. I'd say go to a pick-a-part and get a MAF until you swap heads and intakes. Then start saving for larger TB, EGR spacer and MAF
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Old 08-01-2013, 01:16 AM   #3
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Did you get a chance to talk to Dreamstang or Trojan? They could tell you all about junkyard mods!
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Old 08-01-2013, 01:30 AM   #4
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Did you get a chance to talk to Dreamstang or Trojan? They could tell you all about junkyard mods!
They arnt on here anymore. Trojan horse and dreamstang both had a lot of info
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Old 08-01-2013, 01:37 AM   #5
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I haven't man, I'm gonna try to join that forum as well just to talk to them.

I just don't know about this setup man.. this dude that built the engine..idk lol he cut a LOT of corners..I mean, yeah, the cars fast as s*&t, but idk how with all the hinderances it has
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Old 08-02-2013, 03:09 AM   #6
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Went and got a maf today. Oddly enough, the only maf I could find at the local wrecker was from a 94 v6. But eff it, it works great. No raw gas smell, no stumbling over itself at idle, no wanting to stall when I hit the gas from a dead stop.

It still is powerful, it might just be a mental thing, but it felt like it pulled a bit harder without the maf hooked up, idk. I'm gonna do a pass with it hooked up, then one without it hooked up tonight and compare my times.
Also gotta check the timing and see if I'm able to advance it any and run a higher octane.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:26 PM   #7
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took it to the track today, was only able to get 2 runs in before we were rained out.. lol gotta love ohio weather

anyways, 1st pass was with the maf hooked up and I ran a 16 flat, second was without a maf and it was 16.6
it seems like it leans out in the high end when I have the maf plugged in, but without it, I cant make enough power off launch at all

tbh, with those times, either somethings seriously wrong with how the previous owner "built" it, or its not truly a 347.

Id love to hear what you guys think about it, and any suggestions for next time out?
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:28 PM   #8
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I don't know what to tell you. Sounds like you need a tune. You know who to talk to.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:39 PM   #9
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I don't know what to tell you. Sounds like you need a tune. You know who to talk to.
yes indeed. im weighing my options right now man, do I wanna spend 4-500 and get this one tuned to find out its just a 302 and I had it tuned as a 347? or do I wanna spend 5-600ish and put a 351 Windsor in it.. decisions decisions lol what do you think? finding the parts isn't an issue, but as far as just yanking this motor and figuring out what it is and what it needs.. oh, I have to yank it at some point anyhow because the oil pans all jacked up and is leaking, and I cant replace it with it in the car
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:46 PM   #10
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Talk to trojan. He could answer all your 302-347 351W questions
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:55 PM   #11
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Talk to trojan. He could answer all your 302-347 351W questions
alright, I guess ill join that forum tonight lol
thanks brother
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Old 08-03-2013, 12:00 AM   #12
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94-95 5.0 computers dont handle mods very well without a tune. Also the e7 heads dont flow remotely close enough to support a 347 which will likely kill your top end power. Something is definetly off if its running slower ETs than stock
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Old 08-03-2013, 12:11 AM   #13
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A9L computers all the way!!
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Old 08-03-2013, 01:24 AM   #14
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94-95 5.0 computers dont handle mods very well without a tune. Also the e7 heads dont flow remotely close enough to support a 347 which will likely kill your top end power. Something is definetly off if its running slower ETs than stock
that's what I'm saying.
even if its a 302, its cammed, it has a Detroit locker 3.73 rear end...it should definitely be into the 15s, if not 14s...something aint right. and the 16 second run I did I did damn good.. I was less than a second behind a 2013 charger hemi up until the 1/8th mile mark and then he lost me. its like halfway down the track my car gave up, and I'm thinking part of it is this hack job of a valvebody it has... its not a true manual valvebody, I experimented with it this evening, and theres a good lag going into 2nd


I'm gonna see what I can do with the timing this week, I gotta borrow my buddies timing light. however, I cant see any markings to show the timing to be able to adjust it a certain degree ahead lol gonna be fun
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Old 08-03-2013, 01:30 AM   #15
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If it isn't throwing a "check engine" light and it isn't tuned than none of those mods are real.
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Old 08-03-2013, 12:21 PM   #16
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If it isn't throwing a "check engine" light and it isn't tuned than none of those mods are real.
I don't there there IS a check engine light..
it didn't show with no maf, it didn't show with a couple other sensors disconnected, and it hasn't shown when Ive been fiddling with things that should make it show just out of curiosity.. also, it has no rear o2s, another thing that should show a cel.
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Old 08-07-2013, 02:52 AM   #17
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We tested the ecu today with my buddies obd1 reader, and it thru 3 codes, 172, 327, and 632.

there's no egr so that explains 1 of them, 1 is for ho2 sensor/lean. And the 3rd is from him not pushing the overdrive button when he did the timing test.
The reader said that there was something up with cylinder 8 so I pulled that plug and it was white.. verryyy white.

Pulled cylinder 1 and cylinder 5s plugs as well just as a point of reference and they were also pretty lean, nowhere near as bad as cylinder 8 though.
We do have an idea why it might be lean though, with the maf being replaced, we think that its the injectors not being big enough for the engine, and 19 lbs injectors are good for a 302.. it might actually turn out to be a 347.
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Old 08-07-2013, 03:20 AM   #18
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Yeah, sounds like you're making progress, careful if it's lean you may crack a piston
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Old 08-07-2013, 03:57 AM   #19
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Yeah, sounds like you're making progress, careful if it's lean you may crack a piston
I'm definately not trying to do that.

Were gonna experiment with the timing and a couple other things this week.

My harmonic balancer has no timing marks so I can't accurately time it by degree based off that, so me and my girls dad advanced it by ear.. from the little knowledge I have of tuning 302s I believe were close to 15-17 degrees timing. With that advance I've started using 91-93 octane because it won't run with 87.
I'm gonna clean the plugs and back off the timing a bit and check them again and see what's up.

Do have a question, I've read up on them and talked to the guys at the salvage yards, as far as I can tell the maf is the same on 94-95 v6 and v8 mustangs.. the maf I put in it is out of a 95 v6, I took the sensor out of the v6 housing and put it in my v8 housing. That shouldn't make a huge difference right?
Without it its rich enough to fuel a 3rd world village, with it its too lean lol

Did find out today I held with a 2013 dodge charger hemi on 7 cylinders.. so eat that hemi lol
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Old 08-07-2013, 09:30 PM   #20
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Well, sounds like fuel delivery issues. I would say that you should check fuel pressure. The only good way to diagnose based on spark plugs is to do a REALLY hard 1000ft run and immediately pull the plugs
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:50 PM   #21
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Well, sounds like fuel delivery issues. I would say that you should check fuel pressure. The only good way to diagnose based on spark plugs is to do a REALLY hard 1000ft run and immediately pull the plugs
Alright, ill do that tomorrow.

We checked all the injectors with a mechanics stethoscope today and all 8 are working.
I gotta get a pressure gage to check the pressure at the rail, and I might as well change my fuel filter..it looks pretty old.

The plugs all need replaced, they're all pretty crusty. I've also gotta check my passenger side cat, the tell tale tick of an exhaust leak is getting worse and the passenger side is hotttttt above the header, no hot air, but its freakin hot there, I think that cats bad from running it rich for as long as it did.

It would make sense if the fuel pressure is down as to why the 8th injector is the worst, the #1 was white, #5 was worse, and #8 was by far the worst.. #8 is the last furthest from the rail inlet.
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:57 PM   #22
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I'm definately not trying to do that.

Were gonna experiment with the timing and a couple other things this week.

My harmonic balancer has no timing marks so I can't accurately time it by degree based off that, so me and my girls dad advanced it by ear.. from the little knowledge I have of tuning 302s I believe were close to 15-17 degrees timing. With that advance I've started using 91-93 octane because it won't run with 87.
I'm gonna clean the plugs and back off the timing a bit and check them again and see what's up.

Do have a question, I've read up on them and talked to the guys at the salvage yards, as far as I can tell the maf is the same on 94-95 v6 and v8 mustangs.. the maf I put in it is out of a 95 v6, I took the sensor out of the v6 housing and put it in my v8 housing. That shouldn't make a huge difference right?
Without it its rich enough to fuel a 3rd world village, with it its too lean lol

Did find out today I held with a 2013 dodge charger hemi on 7 cylinders.. so eat that hemi lol
The reason it is lean with the v6 maf is the v6 maf is calibrated for smaller injectors, probably 15lbs. The 5.0 uses 19lb injectors.
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:08 PM   #23
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The reason it is lean with the v6 maf is the v6 maf is calibrated for smaller injectors, probably 15lbs. The 5.0 uses 19lb injectors.
The v6 has 19lb injectors. My 95 v6 had 19lb orange tops, the v6 I took it out of had 19lb orange tops.
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:11 PM   #24
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Alright, ill do that tomorrow.

We checked all the injectors with a mechanics stethoscope today and all 8 are working.
I gotta get a pressure gage to check the pressure at the rail, and I might as well change my fuel filter..it looks pretty old.

The plugs all need replaced, they're all pretty crusty. I've also gotta check my passenger side cat, the tell tale tick of an exhaust leak is getting worse and the passenger side is hotttttt above the header, no hot air, but its freakin hot there, I think that cats bad from running it rich for as long as it did.

It would make sense if the fuel pressure is down as to why the 8th injector is the worst, the #1 was white, #5 was worse, and #8 was by far the worst.. #8 is the last furthest from the rail inlet.
If you haven't replaced the fuel filter it is probably a big part of your problem.
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:15 PM   #25
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After a quick search. Stock 3.8 v6 injectors should be 14lbs
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:18 PM   #26
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19lb injectors are used on split port motor v6s in 94. Your search was too quick
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:25 PM   #27
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19lb injectors are used on split port motor v6s in 94. Your search was too quick
They were also on my 95 single port v6. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen any single port 3.8 mustang engine without the orange top 19's
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:37 PM   #28
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Ok, apparently not all them are, my v6 must have had bigger injectors installed before I got it, and the one at the parts yard had oranges too.

BUT, 94-98 were factory 14 lbs.

99-04 were factory 21lbs. Sooo, with that said, I'm gonna go to the yard this week and try to grab a set of 99-04 injectors and maf. I can splice the stock maf plug in my car so I can use the 99-04 more square plug versus the 94-95 oval shaped. All the wirings the same, its just a different shaped plug for the changeover year.
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:54 PM   #29
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If you haven't replaced the fuel filter it is probably a big part of your problem.
I wouldn't be surprised..
You gotta understand man, I've got this... call it a condition, I always seem to replace the easiest things last lol
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:43 AM   #30
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Make sure you solder the connections.
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:59 AM   #31
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Make sure you solder the connections.
That or butt connectors. The garage I regular has a vendetta against solder lol dude that runs it is a tractor trailer mechanic and he detests solder, says it traps/starts corrosion lol

I think what ill do is leave my stock oval connector, and splice into the harness like 4" before it, and have about 4" of wire on the rectangular connector and have both of them under the hood. That way if I do further mods, and ever have the need for a oval maf, ill have that connector too.
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Old 08-08-2013, 01:23 AM   #32
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Yeah it's good to grease connections with delelectric grease
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Old 08-08-2013, 01:42 AM   #33
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Yeah it's good to grease connections with delelectric grease
ill grab a tube of that when I go to the parts store tomorrow lol.
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Old 08-09-2013, 01:34 AM   #34
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Gonna try to go to the J/Y tomoro and grab some parts, I'm looking for a set of 24lb injectors out of a lincoln mark8 or e/f2-450 and a matching maf. I should be able to exchange the maf I bought for a different one. It works but it ain't right lol
Bought some new plugs today but I'm not installing them til I get either a different maf or bigger injectors and a maf. And I'm gonna try to grab a stock h pipe off a gt while I'm there and put a decent exhaust on it, my cats are prolly bad and there's about 15 different pieces of straight pipe welded together under my car.. lol
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Old 08-09-2013, 02:55 PM   #35
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Well, today was kinda a waste lol
Called a junkyard 30 miles away and they said they had a set of 24lb injectors in a 460 that I could get for 40 bucks if I came and pulled them. So I jumped in the car at 9am and drove out in the pouring rain and got soaked walking half a mile thru the yard to the back 9 where this truck was.. open the hood, and wouldn't you know, its a carbed 351.. not even a 460 lol
Went back up to the office and explained this to them, and they were kind enough to tell me that they have nothing they can help me with, and I can't go pull a set of injectors because then they can't sell the engine as a complete motor.. good customer service.

So, I went to another salvage yard, couldn't find any injectors, and I found a maf out of a 98 5.4 expedition (which should have 19lb injectors right?) Put in my car when I got home, and no power.. none, not at all. Disconnect it and I could chirp 2nd and 3rd.. so either this maf is bad, or the injectors aren't 19s.. idk.

I put the 95 v6 maf back in, replaced the fuel filter and said screw it for today. Gonna replace the plugs tomoro, I might breakdown and just shell out over 100 bucks for a maf specifically for a 95 5.0, idk yet.
Fuel filter definately needed replacing.. the gas coming out of it was discolored and gross and I couldn't blow ANY air through it, idk how the thing even let gas to the rail.

Currently looking for a stock h pipe to put on it to replace the hackjob it has right now, and reading up on some things I'm not that familiar with on these motors..
So I guess it wasn't a total loss of a day, but I've been up for like 30 hours, I'm going to sleep lol
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