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Old 11-21-2013, 07:36 PM   #1
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Exclamation Electric issue? Need help.

I've been having issues with the engine on my 1988 mustang 5.0. She drives perfect during the day but with the lights on or the heat on she runs really rough, she misfires and sometimes dies; having me start the car again. Today I turned on the car and took off the negative cable and the car still ran. Then I turned the lights on and the engine ran with less power(you could see the belts moving slower than before). Then I turned the lights back off and then turned the heater on but the moment I did the car shut off. I reattached the negative cable and grabbed a multimeter or a voltmeter or flukemeter(whatever you prefer to call it) and I connected it to the battery terminals when the car was off, on and when the car was on with the lights and heat also turned on and these are my results. With the car turned off I attached the negative to the negative terminal and the positive to the positive terminal and I got a reading of 12.57 volts. With the car on and engine running I did the same and got a reading of 14.42 volts. Lastly with the car on, engine running as well as the lights and heat running; a reading of 12.8 volts. So it seems that the battery and alternator are good? I'm only to assume the car has a loose or dirty ground somewhere under the engine? I have only seen 2 other threads on google with the same issue but no reply saying the issue was fixed or how.. would like to fix this issue so that I can actually drive the car in the dark..

help?

thanks
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Old 11-21-2013, 07:46 PM   #2
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I had the same issue with my 88 5.0. i had a little bit of mods ton. I upgraded to a bigger battery and it fixed my issue.
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Old 11-21-2013, 07:47 PM   #3
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It sounds like your Idle Air Control valve may not be compensating for the additional load put on the engine when using the accessories.
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Old 11-21-2013, 07:59 PM   #4
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I had the same issue with my 88 5.0. i had a little bit of mods ton. I upgraded to a bigger battery and it fixed my issue.
What battery did you use that was bigger? Was it the right size or was it just and old battery with higher cca? I have a "Plus Start" battery size 58 that came with the car when purchased a week ago. The only mods I have are a Cold air intake, headers, exhaust and short throw shifter so nothing to really effect the electricity.. any suggestions battery wise?..

---------- Post added at 07:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:58 PM ----------

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It sounds like your Idle Air Control valve may not be compensating for the additional load put on the engine when using the accessories.
so...? are you suggesting that I purchase and install a new one or is there a way I can troubleshoot and determine that, that is the issue?..
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Old 11-21-2013, 08:13 PM   #5
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I think that since the car is new to you, you need to start with the basics and make sure that it's tuned to specs.
Pull off the IAC and take a look at it to see if it looks dirty. If it looks grungy, replace it.
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Old 11-21-2013, 09:00 PM   #6
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I think that since the car is new to you, you need to start with the basics and make sure that it's tuned to specs.
Pull off the IAC and take a look at it to see if it looks dirty. If it looks grungy, replace it.
Doesnt the iac control the idle and the way it fluctuates? Because if so how would that prevent me from driving the car at night with the lights and or heat on? The car drives fine with them off..
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Old 11-21-2013, 09:04 PM   #7
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Check iac...and do you have underdrive pillows???

---------- Post added at 11:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 PM ----------

Pullies lol...
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Old 11-21-2013, 09:19 PM   #8
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Doesnt the iac control the idle and the way it fluctuates? Because if so how would that prevent me from driving the car at night with the lights and or heat on? The car drives fine with them off..
The lights and the heat, specifically the fan, add extra load to the engine. The IAC controls the idle and keeps it constant.
It sounds like the idle is becoming too low when the engine is under a load.
But hey, this is just an internet guess about a 26 year old car.
If you can, I'd start by checking for any codes and going over the engine bay with a" fine tooth comb" and try to spot any obvious problems, bad wires, cracked vacuum lines, etc.
Again, this is a 26 year old car. You can't rule out anything...
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Old 11-22-2013, 08:21 AM   #9
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The lights and the heat, specifically the fan, add extra load to the engine. The IAC controls the idle and keeps it constant.
It sounds like the idle is becoming too low when the engine is under a load.
But hey, this is just an internet guess about a 26 year old car.
If you can, I'd start by checking for any codes and going over the engine bay with a" fine tooth comb" and try to spot any obvious problems, bad wires, cracked vacuum lines, etc.
Again, this is a 26 year old car. You can't rule out anything...
gotcha thats what ill be doing then, I wasnt aware that the Iac controlled all of that. I'll definitely be checking that out today.

---------- Post added at 08:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:20 AM ----------

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Check iac...and do you have underdrive pillows???

---------- Post added at 11:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 PM ----------

Pullies lol...
no underdrive pillows at all lol but yeah no under drive pullies..
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Old 11-22-2013, 10:12 AM   #10
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12.8 volts is low...shouldn't drop under 13...the voltage regulator might be going in the alt...is it the stock alt.??? If it is get a 94 gt alt..
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Old 11-22-2013, 10:17 AM   #11
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12.8 volts is low...shouldn't drop under 13...the voltage regulator might be going in the alt...is it the stock alt.??? If it is get a 94 gt alt..
Yeah its a refurbished stock.. got that fan and everything on it. I was looking into the 3g 130amp one but does anyone have the link to a good one? Oh btw i started her today and she idled today going up and down and up and.down. is that the iacv?
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:18 PM   #12
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Idle air control, check ALL your grounds (main engine strap is likely effed), voltage regulator might be on the way out or the refurb alt you got might be shot in the ***. Any of the box stores can test the alt though. And you do want a 3G alt out of a 94-up car. The stock fox 2G alt is like... 80amps or some craziness. I remember my 91 always had charging issues but my 95 with a full sound system and the stock alt AND underdrive pullies never even dimmed the lights even when the bass hit.
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:22 PM   #13
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Idle air control, check ALL your grounds (main engine strap is likely effed), voltage regulator might be on the way out or the refurb alt you got might be shot in the ***. Any of the box stores can test the alt though. And you do want a 3G alt out of a 94-up car. The stock fox 2G alt is like... 80amps or some craziness. I remember my 91 always had charging issues but my 95 with a full sound system and the stock alt AND underdrive pullies never even dimmed the lights even when the bass hit.
Okay ill definitely be getting that alternator swap. Now where is the main engine strap located? I dont even know where to begin on finding grounds. Ive only found 4 thus far..
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:31 PM   #14
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The big main ground goes from the left (driver's) motor mount to the frame. Its a flat metal strap that usually is corroded to hell on an older car. Best practice is to replace it with a 4 gauge or bigger battery cable and add one to the passenger's side too.
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:35 PM   #15
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The big main ground goes from the left (driver's) motor mount to the frame. Its a flat metal strap that usually is corroded to hell on an older car. Best practice is to replace it with a 4 gauge or bigger battery cable and add one to the passenger's side too.
Ill have to locate it and check and clean it ill get back to you asap.
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:59 PM   #16
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I would not waste time with it, take it off, clean the heck out of the attach points and replace it. They are often so corroded that they're creating an actual issue with the entire car's electrical.
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Old 11-22-2013, 01:23 PM   #17
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I would not waste time with it, take it off, clean the heck out of the attach points and replace it. They are often so corroded that they're creating an actual issue with the entire car's electrical.
I just looked at it and its a wired cable right? Flat and braided and connected to the drivers side firewall? It wasnt corroded at all surprisingly just looks a bit dirty.. how do i make another ground to the otherside?
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Old 11-22-2013, 02:24 PM   #18
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I just looked at it and its a wired cable right? Flat and braided and connected to the drivers side firewall? It wasnt corroded at all surprisingly just looks a bit dirty.. how do i make another ground to the otherside?
Someone might have replaced it. I'd still clean the contacts. To do the other side you just mirror it.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:50 PM   #19
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Someone might have replaced it. I'd still clean the contacts. To do the other side you just mirror it.
I'm going to be cleaning the contacts and looking for every ground underneath the hood and take them off and clean them. That probably won't do anything, although it doesnt hurt to try it. Also i'm probably going to take the Idle air control valve off and try to clean it. What exactly could i clean it with? WD-40, Brake cleaner?.. what exactly. Also I'll replace it if needed although it honestly looks fairly new; still silver and all.. as for the alternator I'll be upgrading that to the 3g 130 amp, will this one work?: SVE Mustang 130 Amp Alternator Upgrade Kit (86-93) 5.0L 5.8L - LatemodelRestoration.com

I also plan on upgrading my batter to an interstate battery. I checked the vacuum lines and theyre good... I dont understand whats going on with the whole lighting and the entire heat system... If the alternator and battery dont fix it then ill be taking it to a shop i guess...
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Old 11-23-2013, 05:23 PM   #20
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Someone might have replaced it. I'd still clean the contacts. To do the other side you just mirror it.
What does this wire go to? (Picture 1)... Could it be grounded to the engine like so(Picture 2)? or where does it go...?
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:28 PM   #21
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It's not a ground wire!

That connector should go to your temperature sending unit on your lower intake.
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:38 PM   #22
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+1
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:39 PM   #23
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It's not a ground wire!

That connector should go to your temperature sending unit on your lower intake.
Okay i connected it. Thats helpful lol thanks a lot
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:42 PM   #24
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Depending on the wire color it could also go to your oil pressure sending unit, and with that black shielding I believe that is where it belongs.
What are the color of the wires/ wire in the shielding?
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:44 PM   #25
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Depending on the wire color it could also go to your oil pressure sending unit, and with that black shielding I believe that is where it belongs.
Yellow wire.. it wont solve my issue though..
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:48 PM   #26
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Yellow......I'll go have to check mine.

---------- Post added at 04:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:46 PM ----------

Yep Yellow goes to the oil pressure sending unit.
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:51 PM   #27
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Yellow......I'll go have to check mine.
Yup..

---------- Post added at 07:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:48 PM ----------

Quote:
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Yellow......I'll go have to check mine.

---------- Post added at 04:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:46 PM ----------

Yep Yellow goes to the oil pressure sending unit.
So do i have it attached properly?
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:56 PM   #28
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Yep Yellow goes to the oil pressure sending unit.
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:58 PM   #29
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Red wire with white stripe goes to your coolant temp sensor on your lower intake
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:58 PM   #30
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Yep Yellow goes to the oil pressure sending unit.
Thanks man. Do you know how to fix my main issue though?
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Old 11-23-2013, 07:03 PM   #31
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Yup..

---------- Post added at 07:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:48 PM ----------



So do i have it attached properly?
No

---------- Post added at 05:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 PM ----------

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Thanks man. Do you know how to fix my main issue though?
I could give you my thoughts about your issues like the people above but that's about all.
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Old 11-23-2013, 07:42 PM   #32
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No

---------- Post added at 05:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 PM ----------



I could give you my thoughts about your issues like the people above but that's about all.
Anything that helps
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Old 11-24-2013, 09:49 AM   #33
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If it's a ground problem these are what the grounds do and some of the locations.

1.) The main power ground is from engine block to battery: it is the power ground for the starter & alternator.

2.) The secondary power ground is between the back of the intake manifold and the driver's side firewall. It is often missing or loose. It supplies ground for the alternator, A/C compressor clutch and other electrical accessories such as the gauges.

The picture shows the common ground point for the battery, computer, & extra 3G alternator ground wire as described above in paragraph 2. A screwdriver points to the bolt that is the common ground point.



The battery common ground is a 10 gauge pigtail with the computer ground attached to it.



3.) The computer's main power ground (the one that comes from the battery ground wire) uses pins 40 & 60 for all the things it controls internally: it comes off the ground pigtail on the battery ground wire. Due to its proximity to the battery, it may become corroded by acid fumes from the battery.
In 86-90 model cars, it is a black cylinder about 2 1/2" long by 1" diameter with a black/lt green wire.
In 91-95 model cars it is a black cylinder about 2 1/2" long by 1" diameter with a black/white wire.
You'll find it up next to the starter solenoid where the wire goes into the wiring harness.


4.) All the sensors have a common separate signal ground. This includes the TPS, ACT, EGR, BAP, & VSS sensors. This ground is inside the computer and connects pin 46 to pins 40 & 60, which are the main computer grounds. If this internal computer ground gets damaged, you won't be able to dump codes and the car will have idle/stall/ performance problems

5.) The O2 sensor heaters have their own ground (HEGO ground) coming from the computer. This is different and separate from the O2 sensor ground. It is an orange wire with a ring terminal on it. It is located in the fuel injector wiring harness and comes out under the throttle body. It gets connected to a manifold or bolt on back of the cylinder head.

6.) The TFI module has 2 grounds: one for the foil shield around the wires and another for the module itself. The TFI module ground terminates inside the computer.

7.) The computer takes the shield ground for the TFI module and runs it from pin 20 to the chassis near the computer.


If it's an electrical issue1988 EVTM

And for all the grounding locations you can use this.
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Old 11-24-2013, 09:56 AM   #34
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If it's a ground problem these are what the grounds do and some of the locations.

1.) The main power ground is from engine block to battery: it is the power ground for the starter & alternator.

2.) The secondary power ground is between the back of the intake manifold and the driver's side firewall. It is often missing or loose. It supplies ground for the alternator, A/C compressor clutch and other electrical accessories such as the gauges.

The picture shows the common ground point for the battery, computer, & extra 3G alternator ground wire as described above in paragraph 2. A screwdriver points to the bolt that is the common ground point.



The battery common ground is a 10 gauge pigtail with the computer ground attached to it.



3.) The computer's main power ground (the one that comes from the battery ground wire) uses pins 40 & 60 for all the things it controls internally: it comes off the ground pigtail on the battery ground wire. Due to its proximity to the battery, it may become corroded by acid fumes from the battery.
In 86-90 model cars, it is a black cylinder about 2 1/2" long by 1" diameter with a black/lt green wire.
In 91-95 model cars it is a black cylinder about 2 1/2" long by 1" diameter with a black/white wire.
You'll find it up next to the starter solenoid where the wire goes into the wiring harness.


4.) All the sensors have a common separate signal ground. This includes the TPS, ACT, EGR, BAP, & VSS sensors. This ground is inside the computer and connects pin 46 to pins 40 & 60, which are the main computer grounds. If this internal computer ground gets damaged, you won't be able to dump codes and the car will have idle/stall/ performance problems

5.) The O2 sensor heaters have their own ground (HEGO ground) coming from the computer. This is different and separate from the O2 sensor ground. It is an orange wire with a ring terminal on it. It is located in the fuel injector wiring harness and comes out under the throttle body. It gets connected to a manifold or bolt on back of the cylinder head.

6.) The TFI module has 2 grounds: one for the foil shield around the wires and another for the module itself. The TFI module ground terminates inside the computer.

7.) The computer takes the shield ground for the TFI module and runs it from pin 20 to the chassis near the computer.


If it's an electrical issue1988 EVTM

And for all the grounding locations you can use this.
Holy Crap. Thank You for all the information. I guess ill be checking grounds today!
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