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Old 06-12-2014, 07:15 PM   #1
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H-C-I / Motor ???'s

OK guys, The motor I'm having built will be done on the 20th. I've received a lot of good info here so thought I'd ask my ???'s here also.
Here's what I'm using in my Motor.
95 - 302 / 5.0 Block (Stock / Not Bored Over)
88 - Forged Pistons ( New Rings)
88 - Forged Rods (New Bearings)
88 - Crank (Ground & Polished & New Bearings & Seals)
New Ford Racing E303 Cam (New Cam Bearings)
New Summit Racing Hi-Flow Oil Pump
New Double Roller Timing Chain
New 4G 200 Amp Alternator
96 - Explorer GT40 Heads (Heads have been machined for New Dual Valve Springs & Viton Seals, a Valve Job. They have New 1.6 Roller Rockers & Channel Guides, Locks & Retainers)
96 - Explorer GT40 Upper & Lower Intake off same Vehicle.
65mm BBK Throttle Body & Elbow Adapter (going in a 94 Mustang Gt)
24-lb. Injectors with a 75mm MAF Sensor for 24-lb injectors
Fuel Rails, Distributor (new Brass Gear), Brackets, Water Pump, Harmonic Balancer,
etc. will be used off my car since I just replaced a lot of those parts.

There's a guy I know who Builds Race Cars who says I should be able to drop this motor in my car & drive. No Tune...No New Computer...Nothing...Just drop it in & drive. He says since I'm using a 24-lb. MAF w/ the injectors Tuning or changing the Computers is not necessary.

Now AMP Performance is telling me different. When I was there telling them the parts I was using as soon as I mentioned the cam & 24-lb. injectors he said I will either have to change my computer or Dynotune & Chip my current computer.

Not sure who to believe or what to think. AMP performance in my book is a little on the Shady Side. They may be just trying to get some money out of me.

Cris...The Race Car Builder has always given me good info in the past.

But I'm thinking either one of them could be right.
Someone give me your feedback on this so I know what I'm up against.
Don't want to pull my engine & put the new one in & can't drive my car till I come up with the money to have it Dynoed.
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:22 PM   #2
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Will it run.....hell ya.
Since you got a 94 the ecu might not play well with the cam but not in a way that it will be undriveable.

You will benefit from a custom tune but you can still enjoy it with one.
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:24 PM   #3
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Cool that makes my day !!! Maybe I should switch to the A9L. I heard it was better.
I guess it would work.

---------- Post added at 05:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:24 PM ----------

Cool that makes my day !!! Maybe I should switch to the A9L. I heard it was better.
I guess it would work.
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:48 PM   #4
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I would not let "the guy you know who builds race cars" anywhere near anything I owned. You need a tune, period. It will run like crap and be way down on power without a tune. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt. Untuned my HCI Cobra actually made less power than it did as a bolt on car. When it was tuned it picked up over 40rwhp and even more torque with no other changes plus it ran cooler and idled much better.

In this case, this AMP Performance is spot on and this other guy has his head planted firmly in his anus.

Swapping to the A9L is great for a bolt on car, for a cammed one or one even more heavily modified you can just have the T4M0 tuned since it'll amount to the same in the end.

I feel like a broken record, but you ALWAYS need a tune when you do a HCI, there is no exception unless you ditch the EFI and go carbed.
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Old 06-13-2014, 03:27 AM   #5
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I'm about ready to sell this motor as it's way too much of a hassle & way too expensive for the gains I'll get. Another $700 +++ for a tune & a Chip is not in my budget. That's the price AMP gave me. If it were $400 or less it would be reasonable...but $700 is out of the question for me.
What gets me is I asked tons of questions before I ever started this project & nobody ever mentions any of the problems you can run into & the cost associated with the problems.
I've said time & time again, "This is my 1st build & I know nothing about engine building, I'm learning as I go". Now I almost feel it's my duty to let people know before they spend a ton of money on something they'll never be able to finish because of the problems and added costs. That's where I'm at because nobody mentioned anything that could add cost to the project. I knew there would be some problems which I figured an extra $500 for....not $1200 +++. The $500 was spent on problems already so now the money is gone.
I'm going to have to think about this one real hard. I'm leaning toward selling the Car & the New motor as I'm pretty fed up with it at this point.
I just don't understand why there are any problems. The motor is a mild street build about the equivalent of a 5.0 Cobra Motor. 90% the same. Other than the Cam all the Parts are from 5.0 motors...so I see them as just a replacement bolt on & shouldn't require a Tune. I just don't get it !!! The cam only changes the lift from .448 to .498 which is less then an 1/8th inch...not all that dramatic really.
One thing's for sure...This has been one hell of an experience for me. I learned a lot about motors from you guys...just wish I was given a heads up on problems that could occur. Maybe they just seem like small problems to you knowledgeable motor guys who know what to do. But for me....it's pure hell.
I guess it's needless to say...I'll never, Never, Never try to build a motor again.
I could of bought a whole car with a built motor in it for the price of the motor plus my car.
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Old 06-13-2014, 03:37 AM   #6
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If I could just figure out what is wrong with the motor in my car I'd just leave it in. I've tried everything I can think of. The car runs like a champ in the mornings & all winter long & never runs hot. Then when it starts getting into the 100's (live in AZ.) the car runs like crap. Temp gauge goes up past 3/4 almost all the way, Car starts bogging out & doesn't want to run. About every 2-weeks I have to add about a quart of water to my overflow. No water in the oil & no oil in the water. No signs of leakage anywhere. New hoses, T-Stat, Water Pump, 3-Core Radiator, Coolant Temp Sensor.
Only thing I can figure is a Warped Head or a small head gasket leak.
What's your thoughts on this???
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:48 AM   #7
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A leak down test will help narrow down if you have some leakage.


If you are adding water it is leaving the system some how some where.


Your water pump might have a leak.


Radiator might have a leak. Try using a pressure tester that you can rent for free from Autozone or one of them guys. They lend tools out. I helped a friend track down a little leak that was so small that it kinda misted out the leak and when hot it was impossible to see. A pressure test help find that little bastard.


You car might be burning the coolant. Just enough so it doesn't smoke a whole hellava lot.
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:37 AM   #8
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Only thing I can say to all this is when you use used pistons and just do a hone job... were all the pistons checked to be in good shape and were the bores actually checked for true all the way when the hone was done or was it just a self hone and go?

There should not be missing coolant, there is probably a leak somewhere. Heads could have not been decked right, new head bolts/studs might not have been torqued right, gasket could have been messed up somewhere. I'd say find the leak and go from there but if there is no external leak then its an internal issue with the motor. Did you RTV around the coolant ports when the intake was installed?

And I know that whenever someone is asking about a build I always tell them to factor in $500-$800 for a good dyno tune. Also whenever you are doing a build always add 50% of your expected cost to it because it often goes over.

My last super mega budget build was:

-Block hone/cleanup - $200
-ARP studs $300
-Used Performer RPMS with cleanup/valvejob $900
-Stock rods - free
-Stock crank - free
-KB116 Hyper pistons $300
-Bearings $50?
-Intake port $200
-Used Comp XE270HR-112 $150
-Pushrods $100
-Adjustable checking pushrod/degree wheel kit -$100
-Headgaskets - $75
-1.7 rockers - $150
-Other misc gaskets/belt and hardware $150?
-Water pump - $65
-Dyno tune - $600

I'm forgetting a few things but I remember my total came in right in the $3000-$3200 range including the tune and everything else. This is about as cheap as you are going to do a rebuild for and I was on a VERY tight budget to get the motor in the car redone/fixed.
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Old 06-13-2014, 03:52 PM   #9
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I'm talking about the motor in the car now that has the running hot / Leak problem.
Not the one being built. The whole reason I started having a motor built was because of the Leak problem with the original motor. Thought once I swapped the motors out I could rip the heads off & have them checked at a machine shop. I have a compression tester...but not the Leak Down Type.
I don't know...I'm just getting really bummed on this as I'm into it well over $3K now & still need to buy a few of the smaller parts plus have it tuned. It'll easily hit $5K the way things are going. Could've bought a good Crate Motor for that. The idea was a BUDGET Build...Budget being the key word. $2500-$3000 was all I wanted to spend.
I went with what everyone said on this website & now I have a pretty good idea that most of those people never did the build & had no idea of what was involved.
If I decide to just sell the motor I had built , what do you think I could get for it.
Keep in mind every last Nut, Bolt, Gasket, Seal & Bearings are New & the block was honed & Decked, Forged Pistons & Rods w/ New Rings, & the E303 Cam. Well you know what's in it. I'm ready to throw in the Towel & buy a new car.
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Old 06-13-2014, 03:59 PM   #10
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That's what I think. The car is burning the coolant. I'm guessing at it being a small head gasket leak. I can't find any white water spots on anything. Maybe I should pull the Radiator out & have it checked. I've had to pull it a few times to do work on my car & maybe it sprung a leak getting it in & out. It's only about 1 year old & it's an all aluminum 3-core.
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Old 06-13-2014, 04:04 PM   #11
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Hmmm... I missed that part. Well I would say you wouldn't get very much for the one you are building since its a stock rotating assembly and ported GT40s. At least not much in regards to what you've spent on it. At this point you are sort of pot committed so you have to ask yourself if you want to take a loss as it is now or pay to finish it and have a good running vehicle?

I didn't see your initial threads or at least I don't think I did. And you have to realize that on ANY car forum 75% of people will be info recyclers which is a problem for someone who is new because a new person really can't tell the difference having no personal experience.
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Old 06-13-2014, 04:36 PM   #12
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I think you hit the Nail on the Head with the info recyclers. And NO... I don't remember you on my initial threads...you jumped in quite a bit later. I think I actually started the postings on the New Edge Forum & moved over to the SN95's once I had a lot of the parts & was ready to start building,. Sure wish I'd of kept my 04 6-Banger & just Supercharged it with a T-Bird Super Charger. Was a beautiful car & ran Flawless !!!
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Old 06-14-2014, 06:39 AM   #13
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I know you are having issues with your build, but you also have to think the every build can be different and no two cars are the same. If I pull mine and rebuild versus yours, I could very well run into completely different issues. I know you are having issues with the current engine and you are getting discouraged. If it were me, I would test the stock engine for leaks, compare the cost to fix vs the cost to finish, install and tune the new combo and see where that puts you.

Unfortunately like Scotty already said, you aren't going to get your money back out of the new engine if you sell it. You'd be better off saving and seeing it through. Just my .02, or maybe .01
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:48 AM   #14
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Yeah...DISCOURAGED !!! And I know I really want the new motor in the car. Just sick of it costing me more & more. Wasn't looking to put $5K into it. My kid better damned well take care of this car when I give it to him for his 16th Birthday. I always wished my dad would have done that for me so I know he's probably hoping for a car. He likes my car so he'll be shocked when I give it to him.
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:59 AM   #15
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That's awesome man! The good thing is with the rebuilt motor you'll have one less thing to worry about when it's his.
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Old 06-14-2014, 10:40 AM   #16
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One Less Thing...or One More Thing...TICKETS...LOL !!!
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Old 06-14-2014, 11:11 AM   #17
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Haha, true!
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:22 PM   #18
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I ve the same problem with my 92 stang ! I put 1 quart of coolant every 2 weeks to me its not a problem since i know next winter i will do a rebuilt , i just add coolant when its needed . But a know aswell that my engine is burning it , might be the same for u ! My advice is install the new uilt engine wait the money to tuned it and U WONT REGRET IT !! When you ll push the throttle everything that happened will be the past good luck
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Old 06-15-2014, 03:12 AM   #19
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Yeah, I'm going to finish the motor & install it. I just hope it will run good enough to get me to work & back till I get it tuned. It's only 14 miles round trip to work & that's pretty much all I drive it during the week. Still have to buy the Headers, Water Pump, P.S. Pump,
Harmonic Balancer, Starter & Flywheel to complete the motor. I could use my parts off the motor in the car...but I really want new ones for the motor is totally fresh. I can have all the new parts on by time I'm ready to install it (right after emissions testing); but not so sure I'll have the $$$ to tune it by then too.
Good News is I found a place (Fox Body Performance) that will Chip & Tune the car for $450 which is way more reasonable then AMP Performances price of $700 +.
Like I said before. I think AMP is kind of Shady when it comes to their high prices compared to other shops.
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