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Old 06-13-2014, 09:30 AM   #1
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Floating valve issue. What to do?

It looks to be I have floating valves. The stock e7 head springs can't handle the trick flow cam. Mind you I bought the car this way not knowing the guy swapped the trick flow heads out with the e7 heads before he sold the car. So my car won't rev. Over 4500 rpm. I am thankful I didn't hit a piston or cause any damage.

So I can

upgrade the springs

Buy a new e303 cam

Buy new reman. heads.

What should I do? Suggestions? Mind you trying to stay in a budget of $1000
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:45 AM   #2
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Why do you think you have "floating valves"?


Why can't you rev past 4500 rpm's?


Not worth buying remaned stock heads. Best bet is to score some used aluminum heads (Trick Flow, AFR, Dart, Edelbrock.....) and take them to a machine shop to be freshened up.


What cam do you have for sure?


Are the pushrods the correct size? Pushrods for TFS heads will always be longer than pushrods for inline heads.
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Old 06-13-2014, 11:19 AM   #3
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The unknown cam is the problem. All I know it's a trick flow cam. The guy doesn't remember what cam was put in the car. He should have left the trick flow heads on the car considering it was a matching set with the cam.

When I get up to 4200-4500 rpms the car breaks up in power and backfires. No matter what gear, in neutral it does it.

Not sure if the correct pushrods for that cam or the springs are the issue. Just trying to guess what is wrong and where to start before buying parts for it.
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:15 PM   #4
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What I would do? Yank the motor, tear it down and hope the rotating assembly is good. The guy obviously didn't build the motor himself if he didn't know what cam was in it so it could have been any yahoo putting it together. You might luck out or you might not. If you did get it for a really REALLY good price and the body is clean it is still probably worth it.
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Old 06-16-2014, 06:03 PM   #5
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Pull the Valve Covers & see if you have a Broken Spring or if a Valve Stem Lock or retainer came off & check to see if everything is Torqued right to start. Maybe a lifter isn't lined up right down the center of the Valve Stem. Might just need to shim it. to get the right spring tension.
If someone changed the heads they probably did something wrong that you can fix by removing the Valve Covers. That's where I would start...At the Cheapest Fix.
I'm thinking the car was tuned for the Cam & Heads & when they changed heads the tune didn't coincide with the Heads. Different air flow, Compression, etc. But that is merely a guess on the Tune as I don't know enough about it.
Scotty will know.
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Old 06-16-2014, 11:44 PM   #6
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I am thinking the samething hellish. Got to open her up and take a look see if I can find anything. I ordered new trickflow valve spring set, pushrods, roller rockers since I am going to be in there might as well freshen it up. But if they are not needed they are going right back. Will keep you informed. Thanks
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Old 06-17-2014, 06:28 AM   #7
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You ordered new pushrods without measuring first?
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Old 06-17-2014, 07:16 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottydsntknow View Post
You ordered new pushrods without measuring first?

Question for u !
Do u think it will make a difference if a we upgrade spring , pushrod and roller rocker on stock heads ??? With the proper size of course ! Tks
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Old 06-17-2014, 08:48 AM   #9
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On stock heads you can get a little more lift/duration out of the stock cam with 1.72s and upgrading the springs can help with any float problems although you shouldn't get any floating issues on stock springs till the higher 5k range and at that point the stock heads are no longer making any power. Stock pushrods are ok for the stock setup but once you change ANYTHING in the valvetrain you need to re-measure with an adjustable checking pushrod and a solid checking lifter installed Adjust the pushrod until you get the correct witness mark, measure with a digital caliper and that is the length you order.

This is one of the most often not done things when ppl do HCIs or whatever. Its really easy to use the included pushrods with the TFS kit (as an example) but if you are using a thicker HG or a different rocker setup or even from a variance in manufacturing your pushrod length could be off.
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:05 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by UDLOOZ View Post
I am thinking the samething hellish. Got to open her up and take a look see if I can find anything. I ordered new trickflow valve spring set, pushrods, roller rockers since I am going to be in there might as well freshen it up. But if they are not needed they are going right back. Will keep you informed. Thanks
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You ordered new pushrods without measuring first?
What roller rockers did you order?
What pushrods did you order?


I am with Scotty how did you order pushrods without measuring?


Honestly you do not know what is even going on in there,
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Old 06-17-2014, 02:16 PM   #11
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And what happens if your pushrod length is off ? You got me worried now. The guy at the shop where my motors being built told me since I was using the same size Roller Rockers as the Stock Rockers (1.6) that the Stock Pushrod Length would be correct.
He also knew I was using GT40 Heads & an E303 Cam. So what if my pushrods aren't the right length? What will or could happen ???
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Old 06-17-2014, 03:34 PM   #12
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If the pushrod is not the correct length, the rocker tip will not be properly located near the middle of the valve-stem tip at half lift.


Excessive wear on guides, noisey valvetrain, valvetrain not working properly in extreme cases.
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Old 06-17-2014, 04:57 PM   #13
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I just called the engine shop & he said the stock ones should be the right length but they'll double check anyways before installation. If they had me buy the wrong size they'll get the right size for me & just trade them out so I guess I'm OK.
I was worried it could mess up my whole motor when I started it.
Thanks for the info.
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:01 PM   #14
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I'd still be worried honestly, if a builder says "pushrod length should be right but we'll double check" that means they weren't going to check initially which means=bush league builder. And you aren't really going to be able to check anyway so what's to stop them for just telling you its all good regardless?

Yet another shining example of why I always do all my own work.
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottydsntknow View Post
On stock heads you can get a little more lift/duration out of the stock cam with 1.72s and upgrading the springs can help with any float problems although you shouldn't get any floating issues on stock springs till the higher 5k range and at that point the stock heads are no longer making any power. Stock pushrods are ok for the stock setup but once you change ANYTHING in the valvetrain you need to re-measure with an adjustable checking pushrod and a solid checking lifter installed Adjust the pushrod until you get the correct witness mark, measure with a digital caliper and that is the length you order.

This is one of the most often not done things when ppl do HCIs or whatever. Its really easy to use the included pushrods with the TFS kit (as an example) but if you are using a thicker HG or a different rocker setup or even from a variance in manufacturing your pushrod length could be off.

Tks for the infos ! Like u said my engine start floating around 5600 rpm so i wont touch that and i am shoping for a crate engine on ford performance part ! I like that 306 with 340 hp ! The deal is not done yet for what ever i do it will be next winter so i am not hurry !
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:49 PM   #16
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The Ford 306 might be 340hp on a generous engine dyno. More like 280 at the wheels with a good setup.
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:04 PM   #17
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Well , i might have to check something else then ! I was more looking to get 320 to 350 at the weel ! That 306 from ford its ready to rock ! U just need to put a good intake upper and lower if i am correct ! Thats what i seen on their website anyway ! But i will take more info for sure .
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:25 PM   #18
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Well , i might have to check something else then ! I was more looking to get 320 to 350 at the weel ! That 306 from ford its ready to rock ! U just need to put a good intake upper and lower if i am correct ! Thats what i seen on their website anyway ! But i will take more info for sure .
What they advertise is 340 hp on an engine dyno without any accessories hooked up. And like Scotty said a generous dyno at that. I have seen 2 of these crate motors put down high 260's both times.

Look at the CHP site to get an idea of short or long blocks.
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Old 06-17-2014, 11:44 PM   #19
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What roller rockers did you order?
What pushrods did you order?


I am with Scotty how did you order pushrods without measuring?


Honestly you do not know what is even going on in there,

I order the Proform rockers (1.6) with stock length pushrods 1.25 (I think damn now you got me guessing)
I don't know what is going on inside the valve covers. Like I said if they are not needed they are going right back. Or if I have the wrong ones they will go back and order the correct ones.

My thinking is that the trick flow cam in the car with the stock heads don't have the correct pushrods (should have measured before I ordered)
Or the springs aren't strong enough for the cam at higher rpms. (Well 4200 rpms to be exact).

Either way I need to open it up and take a look see but I can't do anything until Saturday after I go to Epping, NH for NHRA racing!!
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:17 AM   #20
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1.25 Push rods doesn't sound right to me. Mine were like 6.5" long & 7/16 Dia.
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:59 AM   #21
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I think he means $125, he said stock length.
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Old 06-18-2014, 11:01 AM   #22
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1.25 Push rods doesn't sound right to me. Mine were like 6.5" long & 7/16 Dia.
Dam 6.25 length is the ones I purchased my bad. I should reread before I post but...
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Old 06-18-2014, 02:08 PM   #23
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All makes ( cents ) now...!
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Old 06-18-2014, 02:18 PM   #24
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Well if your Springs are OK & your Push Rods aren't Bent or anything ... & it's just a loose valve ...
& the Clearance / Lift isn't too far off ... I'm wondering if you could get away with just a Spring Shim Kit.
Anyone know if that's possible? I'm sure Scotty does...or he knows how to find out real fast.
Only thing I don't like about Scotty is he always Suggests all the High Priced Parts...lol.
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Old 06-18-2014, 05:15 PM   #25
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No, I usually suggest parts that aren't Chinese knock offs. They may or may not be expensive and you always get what you pay for.
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Old 06-18-2014, 05:59 PM   #26
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If they are pedestal mount then you can shim.

I also agree with Scotty as some Chinese knock off stuff is not worth it. And most of the time to get it to work right you will have the same amount of money into plus time and aggravation.

Not to scare you but I have seen personally 1 set of Proform roller rockers fail. I also had a buddy tell me his came apart and wiped out a head. Again not a regular occurrence but.....
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:09 PM   #27
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Yes pedestal rockers you can shim up but not down so if they were too short you'd still be screwed. I prefer stud mount anyway myself but I'm sure he has pedestals. Regardless, anyone or any shop that does not properly measure for pushrod length has 0 business doing anything besides fluid changes IMO. I understand if its your first time and don't know any better but when I hear about ppl who "build" engines or shops just throwing in "stock length" pushrods or whatever comes in a HCI kit... sorry no.
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Old 06-19-2014, 08:44 AM   #28
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Quote:
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Yes pedestal rockers you can shim up but not down so if they were too short you'd still be screwed. I prefer stud mount anyway myself but I'm sure he has pedestals. Regardless, anyone or any shop that does not properly measure for pushrod length has 0 business doing anything besides fluid changes IMO. I understand if its your first time and don't know any better but when I hear about ppl who "build" engines or shops just throwing in "stock length" pushrods or whatever comes in a HCI kit... sorry no.
Gotta agree. Funny the difference 0.5 makes in your engine.
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391 rwhp & 424 rwtq...Mustang Dyno 11.5@122mph
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