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Old 07-25-2014, 01:18 AM   #1
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Advanceing timeing?

Hey guys, I rember a thread I read a long time ago about advancing the timeing on the 5.0's. I can't find it or rember the degrees that are suggested. I have a stock 5.0 in a 94 gt. I am going to change my plugs, wires, cap and rotor anyway, so why not just kick the timeing up to. What kind of gains would I be feeling.
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Old 07-25-2014, 06:06 PM   #2
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Yeah, do it!
I can't remember what they say the ideal degrees are but I have the big block in my truck set at about 15 BTDC. The recommended factory setting is ten. It will still run on 87 octane.
I'd fill the car up with premium fuel and start advancing the timing 2 degrees at a time until the engine starts "pinging" at wide open throttle, under full load. Then ****** it a degree once you start to hear the detonation.
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Old 07-27-2014, 09:55 PM   #3
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You can still get detonation that you can't hear. 14 degrees advanced on 93 octane is a good safe setting that'll really wake the car up but you will still have the garbage stock tune on the 94/95 car to deal with.
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Old 07-27-2014, 11:24 PM   #4
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You can still get detonation that you can't hear. 14 degrees advanced on 93 octane is a good safe setting that'll really wake the car up but you will still have the garbage stock tune on the 94/95 car to deal with.
It really is a garbage tune. My buddy is really intrested in my car, so I might have it sold by this Nov, I really love my mustang, but I want a 99 cobra so badly. I know there more expensive to mod, but I'm not going to pass up the opportunity to get top dollar for my car. So for now mods are on hold untill my stang fund is high enough to get a 99 cobra, or do payments on a 2011.
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Old 07-28-2014, 06:36 AM   #5
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It really is a garbage tune. My buddy is really intrested in my car, so I might have it sold by this Nov, I really love my mustang, but I want a 99 cobra so badly. I know there more expensive to mod, but I'm not going to pass up the opportunity to get top dollar for my car. So for now mods are on hold untill my stang fund is high enough to get a 99 cobra, or do payments on a 2011.
Right now used car loans for ppl with great credit are in the low-mid 2% range. You also have to realize that most ppl with NA 4Vs are asking unrealistic prices for their 99/01 Cobras or 03/04 Machs. There is KBB, and then there is street value. Do not pay more than $14k for a NA 4V car no matter how clean it is or how low mileage it is. Any more than that and you might as well save the extra $2-$3k for a Terminator or a Coyote.

And why do you want a 99 Cobra so badly? Besides the 4V its just a GT with an IRS and some bigger brakes. Not like the 03/04 Cobras that got the works.
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Old 07-28-2014, 12:35 PM   #6
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Right now used car loans for ppl with great credit are in the low-mid 2% range. You also have to realize that most ppl with NA 4Vs are asking unrealistic prices for their 99/01 Cobras or 03/04 Machs. There is KBB, and then there is street value. Do not pay more than $14k for a NA 4V car no matter how clean it is or how low mileage it is. Any more than that and you might as well save the extra $2-$3k for a Terminator or a Coyote.

And why do you want a 99 Cobra so badly? Besides the 4V its just a GT with an IRS and some bigger brakes. Not like the 03/04 Cobras that got the works.
Lmao, true. Because around where I live I found two 99 Cobras with around 80,000 mi on them for 8 grand. I like the 99-02 Cobras because for the most part they are affordable. I do love termi's bet they are ubserdly priced.
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Old 07-28-2014, 01:44 PM   #7
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There was no 02 Cobra. Well TECHNICALLY there was but they were Australia release RHD only and were really leftover 01s and they got a godawful front fascia for down under. That said, $8k for an 80k mile Cobra is a great price but you'd also have to go over it with a REALLY fine tooth comb.
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Old 07-28-2014, 01:53 PM   #8
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Yea, didn't know that there was no 02 cobra in the US.
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:57 PM   #9
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Ended up doing the advancement on the timing. It's was a real pina because apparently Ford puts the timing marks on the balancer. So after I figured that out because I'm used to chevys I had no problem. I set it to 15degrees. And I'm running 93 with some 108 octane booster just to be safe for the first time. I may lower it one degree next time I fill up. I also upgreded to frpp 9mm wires, and accel cap, and motorcraft premium plugs gapped to .054. Waiting on my aceell super coil to come in the mail. So far I fell like the car is a little more peppy and responsive. It also sounds a little different.
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Old 08-08-2014, 10:51 AM   #10
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Motorcraft "premium" plugs? I hope they are coppers as those respond the best.


Also good idea to change your fuel filter and clean your MAF.
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Old 08-08-2014, 11:31 AM   #11
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I was going to say that too. Best plug to use for a 5.0 with stock GT heads is the Autolite 25 copper plug gapped to .054 and that's that. Also don't fall for the BS "omg lactating nipples of Jesus" plug wires. OEM Motorcraft wires are all you need.
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Old 08-08-2014, 11:59 AM   #12
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Quote:
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I was going to say that too. Best plug to use for a 5.0 with stock GT heads is the Autolite 25 copper plug gapped to .054 and that's that. Also don't fall for the BS "omg lactating nipples of Jesus" plug wires. OEM Motorcraft wires are all you need.
Actually I had them plug wires "lactating nipples" and they causes arcing and shorts all over the place.


Like Scotty says for mild bolt ons a good quality wire is fine. Make sure you keep them away from the heat and keep them neat. Nothing like trying to track down "Oh my car feels funny...." and it's from a burnt wire from being messy.
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Old 08-08-2014, 12:45 PM   #13
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Motorcraft "premium" plugs? I hope they are coppers as those respond the best.


Also good idea to change your fuel filter and clean your MAF.
They are copper cores, also I changed the fuel filter about 4k miles ago so it's new. I only got to test the car last night. Driveing it tis morning I notice a much bigger difference. Car feels spry like a new car. I'm really happy with the rsults now. I backed the timing off a degree so it's at 14 now. The weird thing is when I put the jumper back in the computer jumps the timing all the way up to like 20+ degrees, then I unplugg it and it drops back down to 14. Is it ok? She's not pinging
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Old 08-08-2014, 01:12 PM   #14
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Yes the timing is going to jump around as that is one of the ways the car uses the timing to control the idle.
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Old 08-08-2014, 01:21 PM   #15
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Ahhh, Good thanks for the info
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Old 08-08-2014, 01:23 PM   #16
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The computer advances the timing automatically when you put the spout back in. This is why you set timing with the spout out.
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Old 08-08-2014, 03:34 PM   #17
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The computer advances the timing automatically when you put the spout back in. This is why you set timing with the spout out.
My fear is at 14 degrees when I fill up with 93 next with no octane booster will it ping? I had it at 15 degrees but I turned it down to 14
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Old 08-08-2014, 03:51 PM   #18
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Don't worry about it. That "octane booster" doesn't do anything.
Give it a try on 93 and if it pings under a heavy load just don't drive it hard until you get a chance to ****** the timing a bit. It won't hurt the engine unless you are drag racing or towing a big boat or something like that.
And if it doesn't ping on 93, advance the timing back to 15 degrees and try that.

I'm kind of jealous... They only allow us to have 91 octane fuel here in California.
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Old 08-09-2014, 01:02 PM   #19
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Don't worry about it. That "octane booster" doesn't do anything.
Give it a try on 93 and if it pings under a heavy load just don't drive it hard until you get a chance to ****** the timing a bit. It won't hurt the engine unless you are drag racing or towing a big boat or something like that.
And if it doesn't ping on 93, advance the timing back to 15 degrees and try that.

I'm kind of jealous... They only allow us to have 91 octane fuel here in California.
Perhaps I spoke to soon. Today mergeing on to the interstate I gave her the beans all the way up to 6 grand and she started pinging like crazy at 5,500. I installed the accel coil today and she seems to idle better and feels smoother, but I think the hotter spark is why it's pinging now but wasn't on the old factory coil. Guess I'll try 13 degrees now. . Also I don't trust the fuel around northern Jersey where I get it. The price is to good to be true and I feel like they probably put 87 in all three pumps. I don't know though, I think fuel just sucks nowadays because of all the ethonal they use in it. I feel especially bad for diesels because they need good fuel or they will burn up the injectors.
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Old 08-09-2014, 04:25 PM   #20
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Perhaps I spoke to soon. Today mergeing on to the interstate I gave her the beans all the way up to 6 grand and she started pinging like crazy at 5,500. I installed the accel coil today and she seems to idle better and feels smoother, but I think the hotter spark is why it's pinging now but wasn't on the old factory coil. Guess I'll try 13 degrees now. . Also I don't trust the fuel around northern Jersey where I get it. The price is to good to be true and I feel like they probably put 87 in all three pumps. I don't know though, I think fuel just sucks nowadays because of all the ethonal they use in it. I feel especially bad for diesels because they need good fuel or they will burn up the injectors.
Places at NJ have been caught doing this, ONLY ever get fuel from a place you trust. I will only ever get 93 from Costco by my house or on the base where they test the octane before it goes in the tanks.

With that said, NJ prices are so low because 1 - we have a very low gas tax and 2 - we have multiple major shipping ports and refineries in NJ so the cost of taking it to the local stations is minimal vs someplace in the middle of the country. 87 octane is $3.19 around me right now, 93 is $3.49.
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Old 08-09-2014, 04:47 PM   #21
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$3.75 for 87 octane in CA.
And, I also live within 100 miles of the refineries in Northern California.

NOT FAIR!!!!!!!
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Old 08-09-2014, 08:01 PM   #22
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That's what you get for living in Nazifornia.


Although in NYC its about $4 a gallon for regular so it does have a lot to do with the state taxes and also NYC has a horrific 12% city tax. On top of NY state sales tax lol.
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Old 08-09-2014, 11:47 PM   #23
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Places at NJ have been caught doing this, ONLY ever get fuel from a place you trust. I will only ever get 93 from Costco by my house or on the base where they test the octane before it goes in the tanks.

With that said, NJ prices are so low because 1 - we have a very low gas tax and 2 - we have multiple major shipping ports and refineries in NJ so the cost of taking it to the local stations is minimal vs someplace in the middle of the country. 87 octane is $3.19 around me right now, 93 is $3.49.
I payed about 3.85 for 93 at Exxon and mobile and shell, I only use those two, but my Costco is in NY where I live, right on the boarder and it's like 3.65 for 87 lol. So I'd rather drive 5 mins into nj and save. But I am going to turn the timing down tommrow.
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:50 AM   #24
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U guys r lucky here in canada we do have 94 octanes .... But we pay 6.00$ our gallons witch means around 5.25 $ with ur money WOW !!! Canada sucks that way

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Old 08-11-2014, 10:33 AM   #25
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Eh, if I could get E85 out here I'd go E85 only with an E85 tune. What is nice is you can also pull and E85 sample and verify it is actually not some watered down E70 or some crap. Can't do that with unleaded without a really expensive tester. All you need with ethanol is a marked phial.

And getting back on topic, yeah Canada's taxes are crazy.
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Old 08-11-2014, 11:06 AM   #26
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Our e85 out here is anywhere from e90 and up

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Old 08-11-2014, 11:11 AM   #27
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I've seen some posts on the interwebs where ppl have rough running cars and siphon some out of their tanks and it winds up being E70... eff that. I really do wish there would be more E85 out here. Probably some stupid law in this state that makes it not profitable or something... There's always pure methanol at the racetracks for ppl who run that tho lol.
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:44 PM   #28
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I've seen some posts on the interwebs where ppl have rough running cars and siphon some out of their tanks and it winds up being E70... eff that. I really do wish there would be more E85 out here. Probably some stupid law in this state that makes it not profitable or something... There's always pure methanol at the racetracks for ppl who run that tho lol.
Just need to move to tx, and get real e85

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Old 08-11-2014, 12:49 PM   #29
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Same in New York as new Jersey, e85 is hard to come by. I heard e85 is cheaper but it burns much faster in terms of mpg. Out west you can get diffrent types of diesel fuel, like off road diesel or some other kind I'm forgetting, but around here we just have plain old diesel that costs like 4.50 a gallon, not so good when your Ford excursion takes 43 gallons.
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:50 PM   #30
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Just need to move to tx, and get real e85

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That would just be one of the perks of living in Texas...
No state income tax, lower cost of living, etc.
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Old 08-17-2014, 07:33 PM   #31
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94/95 GTs are very timing sensitive.....unlike the previous Fox bodies. Apparently Ford was getting tired of replacing T5s and the eec4 (?) was tuned waaaay down. I had a 94 GT back in the day.

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Old 08-17-2014, 08:52 PM   #32
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94/95 GTs are very timing sensitive.....unlike the previous Fox bodies. Apparently Ford was getting tired of replacing T5s and the eec4 (?) was tuned waaaay down. I had a 94 GT back in the day.

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Not sure what T5's have to do with this as 94/95 used T5's. Also their ecu ' s were sensitive to vacuum changes amongst other things but the ecu was a better one than the foxes and much faster.

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Old 08-17-2014, 09:05 PM   #33
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Same in New York as new Jersey, e85 is hard to come by. I heard e85 is cheaper but it burns much faster in terms of mpg. Out west you can get diffrent types of diesel fuel, like off road diesel or some other kind I'm forgetting, but around here we just have plain old diesel that costs like 4.50 a gallon, not so good when your Ford excursion takes 43 gallons.
That's like "farm grade" diesel or something. Its the high sulfur diesel fuel that you could get anywhere up until the early 2000s. Now its very illegal to run into a street vehicle and it will gum up the variable vane turbos of today. That's one reason the 6.0L Powerstrokes had so many issues early on among other things. High sulfur fuel was clogging the turbos. If you were to run farm grade in an Excursion, you better damn well be doing it in one of the 7.3L varieties. Those things ran great on the high sulfur fuels and routinely hit 300k-400k miles no problem.
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Old 08-17-2014, 09:25 PM   #34
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That's like "farm grade diesel or something. Its the high sulfur diesel fuel that you could get anywhere up until the early 2000s. Now its very illegal to run into a street vehicle and it will gum up the variable vane turbos of today. That's one reason the 6.0L Powerstrokes had so many issues early on among other things. High sulfur fuel was clogging the turbos. If you were to run farm grade in an Excursion, you better damn well be doing it in one of the 7.3L varieties. Those things ran great on the high sulfur fuels and routinely hit 300k-400k miles no problem.
In farming communities you can buy "red dye" diesel. It's the same as diesel #2 except when you buy it, you don't have to pay the road taxes that are tacked onto every gallon of fuel.
It's dyed red so that it is obvious if truckers are using it if they ever get checked.
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Old 08-18-2014, 07:56 AM   #35
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94/95 GTs are very timing sensitive.....unlike the previous Fox bodies. Apparently Ford was getting tired of replacing T5s and the eec4 (?) was tuned waaaay down. I had a 94 GT back in the day.

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Not sure what T5's have to do with this as 94/95 used T5's. Also their ecu ' s were sensitive to vacuum changes amongst other things but the ecu was a better one than the foxes and much faster.

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The 94/95 cars are not timing sensitive. They are, however, programmed to pull timing between shifts which is known as "tip-in ******". The thought is that with pulled timing the owner will not be able to shift so hard which will go easier on the transmissions. This was indeed because the T-5 is notoriously weak and they wanted a way to go easier on the drivetrain with the heavier SN95. Notice that they replaced the T-5 with the much stronger T-45 in 1996 even with a less "torquey" motor. The tip-in ****** is one of the first things any tuner will remove in a 94/95 ECU, even though you can sort of get around it by going to WOT since at WOT the ECU switches off the feature even on the stock tune.

As far as the computers being better in 94/95. The HARDWARE is better and faster but the 94/95 tune is garbage and it has a much steeper learning curve than the tunes that came with the Foxes. This is why a lot of shops don't like to tune for them. With that said, any competent tuner can work a 94/95 computer just fine and if one is ever in a shop that won't tune for them, laugh in their faces and go find another shop. As I've said many times on this forum, this is what I did to those idiots at big daddy performance 10 minutes from my house. I trailered my car over an hour away to a different shop that didn't suck and he took my HCI 95 Cobra from 260rwhp untuned to 301rwhp when finished.
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