Help!!! Cranks but no start, no spark, no fuel pump prime - Mustang Evolution

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Old 03-10-2015, 08:33 AM   #1
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Help!!! Cranks but no start, no spark, no fuel pump prime

I'm a student in automotive school who knew very little before I started. That being said. I need some solid advice on these events that happened in the last month. It all started with surging idle. So I set base idle to 900 and do proper procedure according to all data. I get the idle surge to go away. A week later it started giving me a check engine light.
I would start the car and as soon as it warmed up. Bam. Check engine
So I brought to auto zone. No codes on scan tool. I'm stumped. But when driving, it started tonintermittently buck and jerk on acceleration. Only when starting to give more gas. Finally a week later it stalled while at a light. And wouldn't start back up. It would spin but not fire. So I popped hood. Disconnected battery and reconnected. Tried to fire again. It sounded like it wanted to, but stuttered out. Tried again same thing. Tried a few more times and got a backfire or pop. I floored it to try and keep it running and I did. It didn't stall out again. But the intermittent jerking upon acceleration happened more frequently and id just give it more gas to push through it and it would go away because i felt like it wasn't getting enough fuel maybe..Until one day it fired up so good. As soon as i turned the key the engine roared to life. Started driving home from school, I was at a a light. Gave it gas and it bucked and jerked whiplashing me and it sounded like something snapped or shorted and died slowly.. The speedometer slowly dropped and engine rpm slowly went down and would not start back up. Everything went off but the lights Now all it does is crank(starter spins engine it sounds like). These are my current mods. Any advice? I've done electrical testing on fuel pump and its. Battery is fully charged, tested ccrm but grabbing voltage from pin #5 .253 v...tfi is getting power but can't tell if it works or is sending signal. and ignition module idk how to test... Or ign switch.
Did not check grounds yet. I'm limited on time with work and school. Whenever I get a chance I'm messing around though.*

I should mention I break my back with leg presses to get clutch in even after adjusting cable. It works it way back

306ci 5.0 cobra motor EFI N/A

Dyno & SCT tuned.*

Brand new prettyuch. Block was cleaned and painted, (hand built) bored .030 over motor. Machined, All new internals.*

Just finished breaking in normal operating with mobile1 blend.*

Less than 1000 miles on motor

Changed oil to valvoline full synthetic 10-30 with motorcraft filter


F303 cam I'm pretty sure is in there
Recently machined and milled GT40p heads in perfect condition.

All new*Fel Pro gaskets*(entire kit)
ARP head bolts
70mm throttle body.
BBK 70mm MAF*
BBK*cold air intake.
BBK headers.
Flow master 44's*full*cat back exhaust.
Bassani x-pipe w/performance cats
Crane cam Hi-s 6 ignition setup with built in rev limiter
New MSD*distributor cap and rotor
New MSD street fire coil*
New Taylor pro Spiro wires w/nylon heat resistant wire seperators
New 150 amp alternator with new harness and 4 gauge PA wire with 200 Amp fuse*
Fuses seem to be ok
New pcv
New water pump*
New Upper and lower radiator hoses.
Optima red top battery*
New Autolite 104 ap plugs
BBK firewall*clutch cable*adjuster
Stage 2 RAM clutch HD*pressure plate
New PIP
New MSD street fire coil
Short throw shifter.*
Truss mount
Castor camber plates
Strut tower bar
Upper and*lower control arms.
Front and rear*sway bars.*
Polyurethane bushings throughout.
Including*motor mount
New trans mount and bushing
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Old 03-10-2015, 01:47 PM   #2
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I think you should proof read that and keep in mind that on this forum, to "crank" an engine means to spin it with the starter. I thikn some people might have a hard time de-coding some of what you typed.

Anyways.. I would be extremely suspicious of the TFI at this point. Fords of that era had TFI problems in the 5.0s but who knows.
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Old 03-10-2015, 02:34 PM   #3
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That's what I mean sorry. Not good with explaining yet..I'll try that as soon as I get off work. Thanks I appreciate your input

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---------- Post added at 07:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:33 PM ----------

I'll let you know how that goes

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Old 03-10-2015, 08:08 PM   #4
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So I went to auto zone and bought a duracrap tfi module and its not the problem. So that narrows it down

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Old 03-10-2015, 09:13 PM   #5
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Does it have spark when you crank the engine? Pull a plug out, touch it up against the block somewhere and see if it sparks. (have a friend crank the engine over)


Next thing to check is fuel pressure. Go crank your car over for a bit, cycle the key on-off-on-off-on-off like that. LEave the key on for 4 seconds at each interval. Not cranking, just on for 4 seconds, then off. That should build at least 35 lbs of fuel pressure. You check fuel pressure at the fuel rail on a schreader valve. You can use a regular air pressure dial guage to check it.


If you have spark and fuel pressure, then it could be timing being off, or it could be fuel injectors not working.


If you don't have fuel pressure, that means you most likely need a fuel pump.


Welcome to the forum, by the way! Usually we have more guys jumping on threads like this to help just sayin
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Old 03-11-2015, 01:39 AM   #6
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OK. So I have no spark and no fuel pump prime. I disconnected spout connector and isolated system. Used coil plug wire and spark tester..no spark still. Checked voltage at coil. No voltage on positive. Or negative while cranking.. When I installed 150 amp alternator.. I installed 4 gauge PA wire with 200 amp fuse. But did not reinstall gray fusible links a+b from stick wiring harness. Could that be a problem? Or is the 200 amp fuse the replacement?

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Old 03-11-2015, 01:40 AM   #7
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I think no power to coil could be ignition switch. But how can I be certain without taking dash apart?

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Old 03-11-2015, 01:41 AM   #8
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Thanks I like this forum a lot. I'm trying to upload pics but it keeps mentioning Tapatalk needing to be upgraded and when I go to do it I already have it lol

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Old 03-11-2015, 01:58 AM   #9
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What kind of fuel system is on there?

I'd start by checking fuel pressure and go from there. Check for leaks, and that doesn't mean a drip it could be sucking in air making you lose prime somewhere or cause air bubbles in the line.

Once you get fuel you can get working on spark. How did you test for a spark? Pull a wire and try to ground it? You can get inline tester that has a light. If I were you I'd just start poking around with a test light and see where powers going where
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Old 03-11-2015, 02:34 AM   #10
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It's the stock fuel system. That's what I was gonna upgrade next. The rubber hose around the dorman nylon line that goes to fuel rail is cut...I need to replace. I figured the nylon is OK...bit who knows. It looks like it has a scratch on it from a razor blade...I will get inline tester in the am.. I have the other one. And I poked the test light on the coil. No glow. Brand new coil though.

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Old 03-11-2015, 03:08 AM   #11
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Was the key on?
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Old 03-11-2015, 03:22 AM   #12
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Yea I did the positive with key on, followed by Negative terminal and cranking.

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Old 03-11-2015, 01:21 PM   #13
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Im gonna guess you have a PCM issue. I doubt you would coincidently have your Fuel pump and ignition system fail at the same time.

Keep in mind though, I am not claiming to be all-knowing on this. I just would be suspicious of your PCM/ECU going out. Im not sure how to test it for sure though, maybe somebody else does. I have a 1999 with a 4.6 and distributorless ignition so theres a couple things on your car that I dont know about. I also dont have EFI anymore, just a carburetor and electric fuel pump for simplicity of troubleshooting.
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Old 03-11-2015, 03:45 PM   #14
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Couldn't I just check for resistance in each section of wires along the entire harness? Would that lead me to it?

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Old 03-11-2015, 03:50 PM   #15
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The crane can hi 6 has a red led that turns on usually when key is in on position. I think it is a computer problem like you said. I have wiring diagrams. But I'm so in experienced I'm nervous to short something by touching wrong wires. Especially if this harness isn't the one that came in car. There's a few connectors that don't even go anywhere... It would make it a lot simpler if I knew which wires to test on the ICM

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Old 03-11-2015, 06:07 PM   #16
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All data says verify spark with spark/timing connector removed(isolate ignition). If spark is now OK. EEC system may now be inoperative.

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Old 03-11-2015, 06:09 PM   #17
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But spark is not OK if no power at coil primary batt+ side check for strong pulse at coil - while cranking. Use 12v test lamp.I Did that. If no power is present at coil. Possible ignition switch separation or main fuse link burnt

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---------- Post added at 11:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 PM ----------

Now which fus link would they be talking about. The only ones I seen or noticed are the ones at the end of stock alternator harness

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Old 03-11-2015, 06:11 PM   #18
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So I feel like I'm looking at ignition switch problem. And I've been told ford. Has this thing they did. For safety. If fuel pump goes out. System will deactivate spark as well in case of a leak so you don't blow yourself up.

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Old 03-11-2015, 06:12 PM   #19
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So I feel like I'm looking at ignition switch problem. And I've been told ford. Has this thing they did. For safety. If fuel pump goes out. System will deactivate spark as well in case of a leak so you don't blow yourself up.

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Sounds like you're should check the fuel pump then
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Old 03-11-2015, 06:25 PM   #20
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So I feel like I'm looking at ignition switch problem. And I've been told ford. Has this thing they did. For safety. If fuel pump goes out. System will deactivate spark as well in case of a leak so you don't blow yourself up.

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Sounds like you're should check the fuel pump then
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Old 03-11-2015, 06:28 PM   #21
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Sounds like you're should check the fuel pump then

If that's the case odds are that's your problem and would explain earlier symptoms


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Old 03-11-2015, 06:43 PM   #22
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Yeah check your fuel pump.. ANother thing to look out for is your PIP sensor. If that goes out then you lose fuel and spark. You wont even have injector pulsing.


Check to see if you have injector pulsing. If your injectors are pulsing, then your PIP is probably fine.


That's the thing about EFI. Could be a million trillion things. Which is why I no longer use it. Especially if I had a fox, id be all MSD CDI and carbureted to avoid **** like this lol.
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Old 03-11-2015, 06:46 PM   #23
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I tried to koeo test the codes. But check engine light didn't pulse red o at all or throw me any codes. Weird. And when I tried to bypass computer and jump fuel pump from EEC Sig return it didn't do anything. But I get power there so that's a good sign

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---------- Post added at 11:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 PM ----------

I just replaced the pip

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---------- Post added at 11:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 PM ----------

Timing was set perfect after as well

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Old 03-11-2015, 06:48 PM   #24
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Yea I see why people still use carburetors still. Makes life slightly easier. But I like learning about diagnostics on efi. This is a very good learning experience for me

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Old 03-11-2015, 06:59 PM   #25
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I tried to koeo test the codes. But check engine light didn't pulse red o at all or throw me any codes. Weird. And when I tried to bypass computer and jump fuel pump from EEC Sig return it didn't do anything. But I get power there so that's a good sign

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---------- Post added at 11:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 PM ----------

I just replaced the pip

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---------- Post added at 11:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 PM ----------

Timing was set perfect after as well

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Getting power kinda doesn't mean much just because its back there. You need the relay to give it power. You can jump anything like that. WHat you did would be the equivalent of bridging the starter from what I can tell.
I think your keyed ignition switch is shot, since you don't have fuel or spark. COrrect? No power at the coil you said, right? that's on a different circuit than your fuel and ****. You're not getting a code thrown at you because your computer isn't even turning on. Your ignition switch is just off...

The CCRM has a bunch of relays in it. It has a bunch of wires in it that feed directly from the battery. It has other wires that feed off keyed ignition power. The keyed ignition power energizes the relays, which in turn makes the connection between the wires feeding directly from the battery, and the various devices that need power, like your fuel pump.

If you jump an input wire coming straight from the battery to the output wire going straight to the fuel pump, yeah it's going to turn on. You're doing the job the relays normally do.

Your problem is that they keyed ignition power isn't working. Look at the wiring diagram. At the top left is the ignition switch, directly below it is the PCM power relay. The yellow wire is coming straight off the battery. When you turn the key it's supposed to give power to that relay on the red/green wire. The relay then connects the yellow wire from the battery to the red wire that goes to everything. Your fuel pump relay, your injectors, your maf sensor, your computer, etc. etc. Those are all turned on by that PCM power relay. Below it is the fuel pump relay. The power relay gives it power from the top. When the computer is on, it gives it ground from below on the light blue/orang wire. The pink wire is coming straight from the battery and when the fuel pump relay is energized the pink wire is connected to the dark.green/yellow wire.

You need to test for something that's preventing your ECU from turning on. Without power to the ECU, it won't give ground to the fuel pump relay, so the fuel pump won't turn on either.

So we need to go "up" from the power relay. The Red/green wire is getting power from your ignition switch. You need to test for power there. The black/white wire is a ground wire for the power relay. You need to make sure that wire has a good ground.


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Old 03-11-2015, 07:11 PM   #26
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Yea I see why people still use carburetors still. Makes life slightly easier. But I like learning about diagnostics on efi. This is a very good learning experience for me

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yeah its good to know. And you have a relatively simple EFI car to work on.

I cant really afford much learning outside of what im paying for tuition right now. Im not going for anything car related so knowing about cars only helps my hobby life lol. If I were going to be a mechanic, I think I would figure out a way to get student loans to cover DIY car repairs haha
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Old 03-11-2015, 07:16 PM   #27
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I need to take a look at this more closely when I have more time. I have to be at school by 6. Thanks a lot man.

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Old 03-11-2015, 07:17 PM   #28
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I'll let you know when I test for power at red/green wire and ground. See what happens

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Old 03-11-2015, 07:28 PM   #29
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Yeah I think you're on the right track with when you mentioned the ign switch. I didn't see that comment but definitely test it! You say you are going to school for automotive? I bet they have a shop there that you could take advantage of some time somehow. Your teacher is probably a good one to ask too. I go to a tech school for engineering technology so I have access to 3d printers labs and stuff. I kinda wish I had access to our Auto shops! I find it more fun to do stuff with cars but I went with engineering tech so I could go work for my grandpa's engineering firm. I am going to take an auto class there next year tho. and a welding class. I want to get serious about building stuff after college. I wanna weld up a tube frame and basically make an LS powered go cart with car suspension and steering lol.
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Old 03-11-2015, 07:38 PM   #30
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Yea I hope I am. Yup auto. We have a bunch of different shops. But I really want to take engineering as well. That would be cool to work for an engineering firm. This is so I can build my own custom rides. That's what I really want to do. So welding is next. Yea my teachers are kind of helping between running classes when they can. But my teacher says do this the right way and don't just throw parts in. Figure out the root cause. That would be insane to build. See, I'd love to build stuff like that too

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Old 03-11-2015, 07:46 PM   #31
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Yea I hope I am. Yup auto. We have a bunch of different shops. But I really want to take engineering as well. That would be cool to work for an engineering firm. This is so I can build my own custom rides. That's what I really want to do. So welding is next. Yea my teachers are kind of helping between running classes when they can. But my teacher says do this the right way and don't just throw parts in. Figure out the root cause. That would be insane to build. See, I'd love to build stuff like that too

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Yeah I have learned a lot about CAD programs. See if you can take a mechanical design class there. You could learn Autodesk inventor or plain ol autocad. Any of it will work. If you can use CAD programs and you know how most of the car systems work, you could design and build your own car easily.


I would be able to go into a computer program and design a basic tube frame. then I would be able to do a structural analysis of the frame to figure out where the weak points are in the frame and where the strong points are, so I can see what tubes I need and don't need. and I can build it to scale so I can see how the motor mounts look and where to mount seats and ****. That will keep the weight down and the strength up.

After I get that figured out its just like restoring an old muscle car, but easier. there wont be any body on the frame, basically just a big ol roll cage with wheels and suspension lol. I could bolt suspension on it, plop in a carbureted LS with an MSD CDI and be good to go. Rear/mid engine mount with the transmission going straight into the diff, and then independent axle shafts going to each wheel.. so independent suspension too.
If I can weld it myself, it will only cost however much the tubes cost to make the frame and however much I can pick up suspension, brakes, and trans for. I already have an old 4.6 PI that I could use until I get the 5.3 or 6.0
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Old 03-12-2015, 01:45 AM   #32
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That sounds badass. I'm definitely going to look into design engineering ASAP

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Old 03-12-2015, 01:54 PM   #33
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Mechanical engineering*** oh BTW problem solved all fixed

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Old 03-12-2015, 08:44 PM   #34
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Mechanical engineering*** oh BTW problem solved all fixed

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Awesome! what was it? ign switch?
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Old 03-13-2015, 02:49 AM   #35
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It was. And I replaced fuses and grounds just to be on the safe side.

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---------- Post added at 07:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:48 AM ----------

Oh and the ccrm

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